Cliven Bundy, conservative hero and rancher, is actually a bigoted POS.

natro.hydro

Well-Known Member
Didnt say it was welfare just felt the need to clarify. And donating is the right thing to do but a lot of people might not do it if they did not get something out of it unfortunately...

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natro.hydro

Well-Known Member
Side note, it was only last year that they got rid of the tax law that allowed millionaires to right off their yachts as a second home so long as it was big enough for the proper accomadations....

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BigNBushy

Well-Known Member
Not apples and oranges; wordplay.
A mortgage expense deduction is a "subsidy". Homeowner federal largesse. welfare. As are corporate loopholes and offshore profit non-repatriation.
Welfare. Lock, stock, the lot.
Differences lie in word play and perceptions of 'deservedness' (not sure if that's grammatically correct; will leave it to hairsplitters).

Subsidies are a false economy; witness the sub-prime meltdown that cascaded across the world in 2008.
As you were.
There is one, not so small, and very crucial difference.

Let's call them type a and type b.

Welfare type a) someone is poor, they have a bunch of kids, they get money from the government. It comes in the form of a check each month. It is there income.

"Welfare" type b) someone generates their own income, which is then taxed by the government. When it comes time each year to pay taxes, the government reduces the bill for certain activities. The result is they don't pay as much as they would have otherwise.

For the life of me, I don't see how that second type can be called welfare, and grouped in with the first with a straight face.

The person in the second type only gets a reduced tax burden, that isn't anywhere near the same thing as a handout.

The only way you could think this is if you consider all money ultimately being the government's.

Corporate welfare is similar. Very often it is "given" to companies who are trying to accomplish some good. Like creating green technology. Or giving jobs or loans to the poor or minorities.

I'll agree with you that some forms of corporate welfare ought to end. Oil companies don't need it. The only exception to this might be an oil company that is trying to create hydrogen fuel cell cars or some other type of revolutionary technology for which there is currently no profit motive.
 

BigNBushy

Well-Known Member
Side note, it was only last year that they got rid of the tax law that allowed millionaires to right off their yachts as a second home so long as it was big enough for the proper accomadations....

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Sometimes you got to find the tree in the forest.

Oh, a millionaire bought a yacht! Damn him!

They very well are much like a second home. You can live on one, can you not?

Their sale ought to be encouraged. Do you know how many middle class people benefit from a mega rich dude buying a yacht?

The factory worker, the truck drivers, the salesman, the marina people. The small businesses that set up to service and clean these things.

Very often yachts are leased out. So you have pretty rich people paying a few thousand dollars to "rent" the yacht for a week or so. There is a whole other set of people making money. It needs a captain and mate for the week.

They should put that tax break back in.

So what if a rich guy saves a little money, dozens of not so rich people get a lot of work from it.
 

natro.hydro

Well-Known Member
K so I am done with this thread when someone tries to argue tat we need tax subsidies for yachts because they boost the economy SO much... you are probably in the same group that bitches about farm subsidies.


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BigNBushy

Well-Known Member
K so I am done with this thread when someone tries to argue tat we need tax subsidies for yachts because they boost the economy SO much... you are probably in the same group that bitches about farm subsidies.


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I think some subsidies are good, some are bad. Farm subsidies are strange. I support some of them. I do think it is odd that we pay some farmers to not grow some things.

The goal of the yacht subsidy is not to save rich people money, it is to keep the factory operating, the truckers driving, and the salesmen getting commissions.

You think it is a bad idea because the end result is that a very wealthy person gets a break at the end of the day. Making policy out of spite is never good policy.

When a rich man buys a yacht, a lot of other people get to feed their kids.
 

BigNBushy

Well-Known Member
when wall st and corporate ceo's takes home billions in bonuses a lot of other people don't get to feed their kids..
Not that I disagree with you, but that isn't really the issue is it?

You can't stop that, but you can try to recapture some of it. One way to do so is to encourage them to purchase luxury goods made in the united states. Yachts are made here.

So instead of taking the family for three weeks to the French Riviera, CEO daddy buys the family a new 60 foot yacht that was made here in the states. Then he hires a team of people to service and operate it.

Hate them if you will, but rich people spending money is good for America. All of the crap poor people buy, most of it is made in china.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
Sorry but this statement is wrong, maybe you were using sarcasm and i did not catch ot but rich people do both of those things to catch a tax break. Perfect example, my aunt and uncle eother needed to get a car loan or remortgage their house or they get hit with large income taxes. They also donate to avoid getting hit with a huge bill come tax time. And donating while not gaining anything, if you are smart about it wont cost ya all that much, just my 2¢

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You don't get a interest deduction on a car loan. The mortgage interest tax break just means you don't have to pay taxes on the amount you paid in interest. Donating a $1,000 to save $200-300 in taxes doesn't profit the taxpayer at all, it's still a net loss. You don't have a clue as to how taxes work. Leading me to believe you never paid any.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
Romney donates because he HAS to
his church even does a yearly audit on his earnings
Yes, churches are known for forcing donations at gunpoint. Frankly, you are so eager to denigrate him, you try to turn acts of charity into evil.
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Not that I disagree with you, but that isn't really the issue is it?

You can't stop that, but you can try to recapture some of it. One way to do so is to encourage them to purchase luxury goods made in the united states. Yachts are made here.

So instead of taking the family for three weeks to the French Riviera, CEO daddy buys the family a new 60 foot yacht that was made here in the states. Then he hires a team of people to service and operate it.

Hate them if you will, but rich people spending money is good for America. All of the crap poor people buy, most of it is made in china.
it used to be small businesses were good for america too.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
K so I am done with this thread when someone tries to argue tat we need tax subsidies for yachts because they boost the economy SO much... you are probably in the same group that bitches about farm subsidies.


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They once added a "luxury tax" on yachts that decimated the industry. After hundreds of yacht builders laid off their employees and closed the doors, the folly of the added taxes was seen. So the added tax was ended. There is no "subsidy" for yacht sales.
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Yes, churches are known for forcing donations at gunpoint. Frankly, you are so eager to denigrate him, you try to turn acts of charity into evil.
being a "bishop" in the church of mormon, his tithing isn't exactly an "act of charity"..it's a duty..he hides his money offshore and if the church ever knew what he was really worth he'd be excommunicated..that big deal over his income tax returns? was more about the church finding out true worth rather than concerns over how voters perceived him.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
When forced to give - is it still really charity?
He's not being forced. Much of his charity doesn't even go to the church. Is it really so difficult for you to give credit where it is due just because you disagree with someones politics? Hell, you not only refuse to give due credit, you try to twist a good deed into an act of evil.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
being a "bishop" in the church of mormon, his tithing isn't exactly an "act of charity"..it's a duty..he hides his money offshore and if the church ever knew what he was really worth he'd be excommunicated..that big deal over his income tax returns? was more about the church finding out true worth rather than concerns over how voters perceived him.
How is giving money not only to his church, but others as well, not an act of charity? You have no evidence he hides his money off-shore. Nor did he not pay his taxes. Lying about someone to achieve a political goal is slimy and typical of you. You seem to think its perfectly fine for you to cheat on your taxes and lie to get food stamps and government subsidies while insulting those who pay for your sloth. I guess you'll find fault with him for supporting his family (and others) while finding virtue in you abandoning your own children.
 
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