grotbags
Well-Known Member
more efficient.
Scorpion diablo X
- Thread starter medman111
- Start date
pop22
Well-Known Member
EmeraldØsiris
Well-Known Member
What even is Mint white (ma) and (mb)? Come on.. spill the beans... my balls are turning blue.
Sorry no comparison, I moved straight from 1000W HPS to the Diablo X. I finished my last run under it and am about 3 weeks into a new flower cycle. The plants love it. I also run the UVA bar. The spectrum is noticeably pink.
Bros Grimm genetics and a very sticky, stinky Chicken Dinner, thanks @BobBitchen
Diablo X is not using Evo chips. Otherwise they would need much more 660nm chips as the mint white produces virtually none. Otherwise the spectrum they claim is false.
That's the key to Evo chip efficiencies, it doesn't try producing sufficient 660nm from a 435-450nm chip with full/warm spectrum phosphors. That leaves a need for more 660 dedicated diodes. The ratios being claimed don't add up.
NanoGadget
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you're not aware of how closely HLG works with Samsung. I'd give this a watch, it will clear some things up for you.
grotbags
Well-Known Member
i dont see anything fishy about the spectrum, you can clearly see on the pcbs they are using something that looks very much like the mint evos and another white diode (looks around 4000/5000k) then the 660's for the "red".
the sprectrum graph also seems to back this up.
efi2
Well-Known Member
was asking the same . found this.
Lime and Mint LEDs: unique green options for boosting efficiency, quality, and value of color-mixing luminaires
In professional applications such as entertainment and theater lighting, manufacturers of color-mixing luminaires can draw on a broad palette of color LEDs. With a range of primary and non-primary LED colors to choose from, they can enable good color rendering while maintaining high saturation...
KitnerPush
Member
Uhm, I'd be hard pressed if they weren't using 4000K lm301H or LM301B EVO diodes, and 4000K EVO diodes. You would see a clear difference between a mint white and a 4000K diode, and for sure a mint white diode and a 3500K diodes. My guess is a 450nm diode and a 437nm diode around 4000k. The reds on diablo will draw it down to around 3500K, and diablo X even lower. Unless they're just using only 4000K H EVO and 660nm... I'm not sure using 100% 437nm diodes in combination with 660nm diodes is feasible compared to a mix of both pumps. There is a lot of hype on the H EVO's... and most of it belongs to leafy greens, not cannabis. It's good for reducing the bitter flavors of lettuce for instance. This could be beneficial to growing cannabis, of course, but I'm not entirely convinced 100% 437nm white light is the way to go, but I could be wrong... maybe someone interject.
KitnerPush
Member
exactly, they're saying they use the lm301H EVO diodes aka 437nm pump... but probably in combination with lm301h diodes at 450nm... pluss 33% extra red.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Id guess slightly higher than 4000k, if you look at the blue spike its slightly taller than the green bump, id guess 5000k or so, + evos. Id agree on evos, better using it mixed with regular 301s for a wider blue spike.
But not on the Diablo X. Looking at their spectrum it's the tried and tested standard CRI 80 white + red LEDs. Not peak at 430 nm that would suggest EVO chips and not double peak in the blue that would suggest a mix of different blue pumped whites.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Id go out on a limb and say its probably a mix, and that it wont show up in that spectrometer (i think its the lighting passport); if you check Diablo spectrum it has the same slightly wider and fatter blue spike as Diablo X, but it still wont show the double peak until you get to the downloads with proper tests with efficiency nrs. If you compare the spectrum to a classic 80 cri, like f ex r-spec, you can clearly see its a bit more spikey and narrow on the r-spec.
Doesnt help though cause the Diablo X has a different spectrum in the efficiency report. Since hlg got their own pick and place etc i guess they might have upgraded the board?
Doesnt help though cause the Diablo X has a different spectrum in the efficiency report. Since hlg got their own pick and place etc i guess they might have upgraded the board?
KitnerPush
Member
If you see the blue spike for the diablo
Also the way they talk about their lights is misleading. In their podcast he says that their diablo's run at 56mA per diode in 36 strings. That would only be true if you are running them with a 2100mA CC driver. When connected in pairs like with the HLG 350 diablo, they are not running at 2100mA x 112v... they would have to run a voltage of 152v to make that happen which would fry the board. At 112v they are running these at 2840 x 112 to get the 340W. He hails the diablo as running 10mA below test current, but in this case you're actually driving the diodes at 78mA. They are pushing them even harder on the 750 diablo with 4 qb648's. Look, I'm not hating as HLG makes awesome lights and I have a lot of respect for them, but you can't tout yourself as an open book and not be upfront with the actual numbers. Now, pushing the white diodes above test current by 13-15mA probably will not have any significant change in the overall life of the boards, but the below test-current amps that he is mentioning is arbitrary, and only applies to using 6 boards at 700ish watts.
Yeah, wouldn't know about the 4000 vs 5000k. Some manufacturers are making lights with 3500k and 5000k... but I'm not really sure that has any significant benefits over just running straight 4000k 437/450. LM301h EVO:
The spectrum of the diablo has the green indicative of the 4000k. There is quite alot of green in that spectrum. About 35% less green than 5000. You're not going to get any more red though without adding red diodes. Which is what they did with the diablo x. But he says they are replacing red with green light by 33% by adding 10 more reds and removing 120 white. So you could just replace 4000k diodes with 5000k diodes to remove 35% green...that won't give you any more red though, but it would reduce greens.
This indicates that they are using high green diodes, only more red. My bet would still be on 4000K for both boards.
I could be wrong but the change from 5mm heatsink to 2.4mm or whatever is indicative that they are using the latest generation samsung diodes which have a different casing material. That would be true for H and H EVO. They have also switched to Osram reds which has allowed them a spike in efficiency, especially for the diablo x which has 10 more reds per board. Yeah, I second that the graph doesn't show the double spike. I think HLG wanted to claim the H EVO as their own diode, but Samsung probably wouldn't let them do that. I think the new tomahawk bar style lights have their own proprietary diodes, but they're not as efficient, at least not yet.
Also the way they talk about their lights is misleading. In their podcast he says that their diablo's run at 56mA per diode in 36 strings. That would only be true if you are running them with a 2100mA CC driver. When connected in pairs like with the HLG 350 diablo, they are not running at 2100mA x 112v... they would have to run a voltage of 152v to make that happen which would fry the board. At 112v they are running these at 2840 x 112 to get the 340W. He hails the diablo as running 10mA below test current, but in this case you're actually driving the diodes at 78mA. They are pushing them even harder on the 750 diablo with 4 qb648's. Look, I'm not hating as HLG makes awesome lights and I have a lot of respect for them, but you can't tout yourself as an open book and not be upfront with the actual numbers. Now, pushing the white diodes above test current by 13-15mA probably will not have any significant change in the overall life of the boards, but the below test-current amps that he is mentioning is arbitrary, and only applies to using 6 boards at 700ish watts.
Yeah, wouldn't know about the 4000 vs 5000k. Some manufacturers are making lights with 3500k and 5000k... but I'm not really sure that has any significant benefits over just running straight 4000k 437/450. LM301h EVO:
The spectrum of the diablo has the green indicative of the 4000k. There is quite alot of green in that spectrum. About 35% less green than 5000. You're not going to get any more red though without adding red diodes. Which is what they did with the diablo x. But he says they are replacing red with green light by 33% by adding 10 more reds and removing 120 white. So you could just replace 4000k diodes with 5000k diodes to remove 35% green...that won't give you any more red though, but it would reduce greens.
This indicates that they are using high green diodes, only more red. My bet would still be on 4000K for both boards.
I doubt that. The H is a Samsung Marketing strategy to target the horticulture industry. They rebranded the LM301B as LM301H without changing anything else.
The point in mixing 3500K with 5000K (or any other CCT) is availavility/cost savings. There are only so many top bins available. By choosing a less popular CCT you have access to higher bins or equivalent bins for cheaper.
secretmicrogrow420
Well-Known Member
rebranded without changing anything else u say?
after a quick google search it looks like the lm301H diodes reach up to 3.1umol/j and the LM301B can only reach up to 2.92umol/j.
so maybe they do have the same lumens per watt. but lumens isnt what were after.
plants use photons not lumens and the lm301H diode produces more photons vs the LM301B with the same amount of electricity consumed.
this is what a quick google search pulled up.
Is this diode with us in this thread?
It's widely known that Samsung embelishes the performance of their diodes in the data sheets. Then we also don't know how many top bins they produce. Because having a large enough supply to make it available is more important that having the best one off chip. Most of what they produce is good quality but not what they claim to be their best.