"Yellow Dragon" cold alcohol extraction...can you do multiple washes? If so how much?

I'm a fan of the 'cold process' alcohol extraction/tincture method reduced down to FECO for some of my edibles.

I've generally done whatever, ~7-14g at -4f, usually with about 4-6oz of 196 proof potable alcohol. Has anyone here done this and used their resultant 'golden dragon' to wash multiple amounts or batches of cannabis? I assume there's still some ability/capacity for the alcohol to strip out more THC?

My favorite batch so far has been a single longer soak (literally a few days), but I'm wondering if I did multiple shorter soaks with the same alcohol and new decarbed cannabis what the end result would be. Assuming I'd get a stronger solution, hopefully with less flavor that I could then use less of when I'm making the edibles (probably make chocolates with it.

I'm not so worried about wastage since I have about a pound of cured plant sitting around and I have another grow currently drying for the cure.

Thoughts or felines? Ideas, pros/cons, advice?

Fadedawg said:

9.4.7.1 QWET - GrayWolf's Lair

Quick Wash Ethanol is an extraction process by which we freeze the material and chill the Ethanol before extracting, so that we limit the pickup […]

graywolfslair.com

Click to expand...

Yes, this is pretty much what I'm doing already, though I don't heat the alcohol to evaporate, instead I let it air-evaporate out.

From reading that process, what I'm asking is rather than doing a first/second/third wash with the same cannabis, I'd do a first with one measured/decarbed amount, a second with a new batch of decarbed, and a third with yet another batch.

Good thought. I'd say it's a worthy test to find out, especially if you've got plenty of material. I wouldn't want to just throw it away after just one wash though. At least wash the same material twice to see what's left. Unless your on a shortage of alcohol, then I'd probably save it for a later.

LeastExpectedGrower said:

Yes, this is pretty much what I'm doing already, though I don't heat the alcohol to evaporate, instead I let it air-evaporate out.

From reading that process, what I'm asking is rather than doing a first/second/third wash with the same cannabis, I'd do a first with one measured/decarbed amount, a second with a new batch of decarbed, and a third with yet another batch.

Click to expand...

That will work, but you will leave material behind. If you wash long enough to get it all, you will pick up undesirables. Multiple washes gives you multiple grades, starting with best, and working down,

Fadedawg said:

That will work, but you will leave material behind. If you wash long enough to get it all, you will pick up undesirables. Multiple washes gives you multiple grades, starting with best, and working down,

Click to expand...

I've got more than I rightly use anyway...so not so worried about any waste, so makes more sense for me to do multiple washes with new flower, then it's a matter of roughly figuring out the potency, since you're not really getting the 'full dose' of THC out of the plant matter.

Watch your trichome heads with a microscope to see where you're at. There are practical limits on how saturated you can get alcohol before it slows down to a stop.

You won't increase the potency of the end concentrate using multiple washes of fresh material and it would be faster using fresh alcohol with each batch.

I ended up deciding to try this, using 2x 7g batches of freshly dried Durban Poison, it was about 85% flower and a bit of trim. The flower was pulled apart by hand but only roughly leaving pea sized pieces. Decarbed it yesterday and right into the freezer with it for 24+ hours.

My chest freezer is usually chugging along at -4f and earlier in the week I turned it 'down' to the coolest it can go, My thermometers stopped working somewhere in the -10 to -20F range, so good and cold. The 196 proof alcohol lives in the freezer and had about 4 days to drop down that handful of extra degrees, and I also left the jars, lids, filter/strainer and spoon in for a few days.

Ended up doing a 5m wash with the first 7g, using the spoon to stir the mix 3 times during the soak. The jar never left the freezer, I just opened the lid and stirred and closed it back up. After the 5m I filtered the solids out with a fine metal coffee filter. Then it was back in the freezer for a few more hours to cool things back down again even though the temps shouldn't have raised appreciably.

After a few hours of re-cooling, I did a wash of the 2nd batch of 7g in the same way, for 5 minutes. From there, I removed the solids as before and capped the jar with coffee filter paper, so it could sit out and evaporate off (no desire to boil off the alcohol).

This is the end product (note that it's not evaporating on the windowsill, but in a dark space...but I did want a picture.

Looks good! I typically evaporate mine off in a Pyrex pie plate or casserole dish to increase the surface area.

Fadedawg said:

Looks good! I typically evaporate mine off in a Pyrex pie plate or casserole dish to increase the surface area.

Click to expand...

That's a good idea. It usually takes a few weeks to reduce the way I'm doing it but I bet a wider surface really speeds things up. The only qualm I'd have is that handling the oil once it's reduced but pooled across a wide surface must be a pain.

Silicone, man, get a medical-grade tray or dish big enough, put it someplace stable & protected from debris (bugs, cat hair, sneezes).

once it’s genuinely dry-dry, you can pick it up with a probe (my preferred gathering tool) - and if you can’t peel it off, it’s not dry yet. I give it 22sec in the microwave to expel residuals (then cool), then peel. Remember, there’s water left after the alcohol’s gone.

Going by your pic, I can’t fault your results or your technique. I don’t think I’d use that to wash again, I think that’s real close to saturation. I’d just use it. ISO/ethanol is pretty cheap…at the same time, if you’re just curious what doubling down on *that* would be like - I’m curious, too.

maybe I misunderstood this part, but using that for a first wash on a duplicate quarter of herb WILL make the result more concentrated (to the point where the alc becomes unable to dissolve more resin).

A fresh-alc second wash of both batches would be interesting: curious how much is left over

Bagginski said:

Silicone, man, get a medical-grade tray or dish big enough, put it someplace stable & protected from debris (bugs, cat hair, sneezes).

once it’s genuinely dry-dry, you can pick it up with a probe (my preferred gathering tool) - and if you can’t peel it off, it’s not dry yet. I give it 22sec in the microwave to expel residuals (then cool), then peel. Remember, there’s water left after the alcohol’s gone.

Going by your pic, I can’t fault your results or your technique. I don’t think I’d use that to wash again, I think that’s real close to saturation. I’d just use it. ISO/ethanol is pretty cheap…at the same time, if you’re just curious what doubling down on *that* would be like - I’m curious, too.

maybe I misunderstood this part, but using that for a first wash on a duplicate quarter of herb WILL make the result more concentrated (to the point where the alc becomes unable to dissolve more resin).

A fresh-alc second wash of both batches would be interesting: curious how much is left over

Click to expand...

Yeah, this was 196 proof potable alcohol (I generally don't want to mess with other solvents). An it was 1st wash for two 7g batches of decarb, I didn't keep it around to do a second wash...I have about 14oz of this grow, then another pound or more of previous grows sitting around, so not too worried about wringing out all the potential, though I'd be interested for the sake of doing it as an experiment. The flower is supposedly 20%, but I always calculate low since I'm not the world's best grower and/or I'm never sure that quoted THC isn't just BS anyway.

I'll look out for a small silicone something to try that out. For now I'll just work the way I've been doing.

With my last couple batches of chocolate, I ended up evaporating it all off, then reconstituting it with much less alcohol to be pourable (a teaspoon or so). At 196 proof, there's not enough water in it to make the chocolate seize up.

LeastExpectedGrower said:

That's a good idea. It usually takes a few weeks to reduce the way I'm doing it but I bet a wider surface really speeds things up. The only qualm I'd have is that handling the oil once it's reduced but pooled across a wide surface must be a pain.

Click to expand...

I remove it with a razor blade. Here is a QWISO done that way.

Just an update. Across the past couple weeks I've batched out a bunch of QWET style yellow dragon, and I'm letting it 'air evaporate' out.

Each jar of alcohol has done two first washes with 7g of flower (so no second wash) of Durban Poison. They're all done 'in the freezer and down somewhere in the -10 to -20F range for 5 minutes per wash.

The first batch (far left/bottom), 'broke' today...Meaning the oil is coming out of solution and gathering at the bottom:



I'll wait for the rest of the alcohol (and probably a little water) to evaporate off altogether then I'll re-liquify it with a little alcohol. The first batch will be used to make some chocolate, and the rest will go to me playing with me making gummies.

Maybe a coffee mug warmer to speed things up...

Paddletail said:

Maybe a coffee mug warmer to speed things up...

Click to expand...

That's a great idea... I hadn't thought about that. I wonder if you can speed evaporation while still not hitting 'boiling' point.

the one I have can hardly keep a mug of coffee warm

Boiling point for ethanol is ~160F
Water goes last & takes longest

LeastExpectedGrower said:

That's a good idea. It usually takes a few weeks to reduce the way I'm doing it but I bet a wider surface really speeds things up. The only qualm I'd have is that handling the oil once it's reduced but pooled across a wide surface must be a pain.

Click to expand...

I let it completely dry out. Then reheat the Pyrex dish so it melts a little and then scrape it up. Scraping crystals or watery goo is a PITA.

This is the reason I’ve adapted to silicon as a drying surface.

I’ve never found a satisfactory way of cleaning it all up from glass (even w/ heavy scraping skills) except to rewash & evaporate. Silicon, OTOH, can be simply set aside in a safe place (like an uncooled garage, or even carport (airflow will make up the difference). Once it’s dry (only a matter of time) it’s easily picked off with a probe & transferred to another container, where I find it does well to just sit for a while before using

For me, it’s been the absolute least-effort / best-result solution to the topic.

I realize this is a growers’ board (why I’m here), and I’m speaking to multiple generations, so not everyone will share - or even understand - the waste-not mindset that grew in the scarcity and general unavailability of the 60s. In the beginning, no one had any or knew anyone with a line on some; then some would show up from somewhere, the word would start to pass, and you’d hope you had $10 and got there before the next guy.

Lather, rinse, repeat…. As a result, NOTHING got wasted: bracts, every stem, even seeds.

Pretty sure there’re some long time growers who got started by deciding it was better to try growing them than to pretend they’d get high smoking them. Lotta seed stashes started then, too.

Flash forward 60+ years, and I’ll bet those habits still exist for many of the old ones who still or again *aren’t* able to grow. Conservation of resin in all its forms is an organizing principle for me as long as I don’t have enough to do what I want with & still not run out.

Pardon the sudden outburst of context….