Real reason Democrats want to raise minimum wage.

[BigNBushy]

No, you still make $15.

That's exactly my point.

In a 7.5 minimum world, 15 is decent.

In a 10.1 minimum world, 15 is average.

If the minimum goes to 10, 15 will buy you what 10 does today.

 

[DonAlejandroVega]

OK, in the thirties, the average earner worked 20 hours just to buy food for a week, now its more like 5 hours. No R&D costs in Cheerios.

in a Mesolithic horticultural society humans worked 16 hours a week to provide every need. with their extended family, throwing dirt clods at your stupid cousin while digging up tubers. no commute. magic mushrooms and stories around the tribal fire.................*sigh*

 

[abandonconflict]

That's exactly my point.

In a 7.5 minimum world, 15 is decent.

In a 10.1 minimum world, 15 is average.

If the minimum goes to 10, 15 will buy you what 10 does today.

So if you had a nickel and everyone else had nothing, you would be happy and feel rich...

You're dumb.

 

[Red1966]

food......well, there ya go, as they say in upstate PA. 9% increase in the cost of meat, in the last year. the Fed declares this a victory for the economy, and you go from sirloin to Encore Salisbury steak.........hooray!
organic and heirloom seed prices way up. land use regulation increasing.

Meat is going up, nearly all food is going up. At least partially because we're turning food in to fuel for cars. Not a wise decision, in my opinion.

 

[Red1966]

in a Mesolithic horticultural society humans worked 16 hours a week to provide every need. with their extended family, throwing dirt clods at your stupid cousin while digging up tubers. no commute. magic mushrooms and stories around the tribal fire.................*sigh*

I doubt your numbers. Farming by hand means you barely can grow enough to feed yourself. Without being able to hunt during the winter, you starved.

 

[Red1966]

i do understand what he means; you put in the sweat year over year and have merit increase from $9 to $15/hr then eventually there is COLA and that same $9 job starts off at $13 now and your making $15.

I worked myself up to a pretty hefty base due to tenure and not too long before i left, they raised the meager starting salary (which i endured)
by $10k; that equated to 5 years of increases half my career there; someone just walked in the door and is already making almost as much as myself (on base).

It sounds uncharitable, but doesn't that just frost your ass?

 

[DonAlejandroVega]

I doubt your numbers. Farming by hand means you barely can grow enough to feed yourself. Without being able to hunt during the winter, you starved.

"farming"..........like in agriculture? no. horticultural hunter-gathering. it was monument-building that drove agriculture. I would club to death the first member of the tribe that suggested building a temple, explaining the mysteries of nature, invented a wheel..........or discovered wheat.

 

[Red1966]

"farming"..........like in agriculture? no. horticultural hunter-gathering. it was monument-building that drove agriculture. I would club to death the first member of the tribe that suggested building a temple, explaining the mysteries of nature, invented a wheel..........or discovered wheat.

Luddite

 

[DonAlejandroVega]

Luddite

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2009/11/rethinking_the_luddites

 

[DonAlejandroVega]

wheels and wheat.................

 

[yktind]

whew.......everything's gonna be okay

View attachment 3175166

Scariest words "I am with government, I am here to help."

NASA didn't create the internet. Sun (Stanford University Nerds) Microsystems did.

What has NASA done for me.
http://www.techrepublic.com/pictures/nasa-tech-breakthroughs-that-led-to-innovations/1/

Also, I stand corrected NASA did not invent. However, the US gov was greatly involved, if I read this correctly:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet#Networks_that_led_to_the_Internet

 

[greenlikemoney]

It's all smoke and mirrors kids, just like the HUGE "student loan repayment" caca they announced today with the greatest of fanfare !!!!!

It affects very few people.
It's not a new program.
It's not available until December 2015 ( post mid-term election ).
Loans before Oct 2007? Sorry, you don't qualify.
40 million student loans out there, 1.8 million qualify ( you do the math ).
Private student loan? Sorry, you don't qualify.
How is this program paid for and what will it cost? "UM, we don't actually know that yet"...Arne Duncan, Secretary of Education.

What a crock of shit.

 

[yktind]

You're starting to get it, but that isn't the reason. I don't care what discretionary measure a company takes to increase its base.

When you've worked hard for a time at a fairly skilled job, and you're on the cusp of being middle class America at $15/hr, then all of a sudden the law changes and we're at a $10/hr minimum, you have just ensured a lot more people are at the poverty line.

If you're making 15, and they raise it to 10, you're poor again.

I care a lot more about the hard working talented people making 15 than I care about those making minimum wage.

If you set minimum wage to $100/hr after a few years when everything sorted it's self out, people making $100/hr would still live paycheck to paycheck. Not be able to save for retirement.

We're always going to have poor people. They're not poor because they don't make much money, they're poor because of how they live their lives.

It's not an income issue it is a decision making issue.

You ever seen that documentary where they gave the poor guy 100 grand?

He blew it all. He was no better off after it.

There are plenty of stories out there of poor people who win a few hundred thousand dollars in the lottery, after a few years they're worse off.

You can't fix poverty with more money. Unless you're willing to dictate to people how they spend it.

Now, you could take a successful person, take everything he has, and there is a damn good chance he will rebuild his wealth.

Fun fact: Studies show that winning the lottery increases your chances for bankruptcy.

 

[yktind]

OK, in the thirties, the average earner worked 20 hours just to buy food for a week, now its more like 5 hours. No R&D costs in Cheerios.

Today we work the first four months of the year just to pay taxes.

This is 33% Income tax plus 7.5% sales tax in my county.

 

[BigNBushy]

Fun fact: Studies show that winning the lottery increases your chances for bankruptcy.

But if poor people just had a little more money.....

 

[yktind]

But if poor people just had a little more money.....

Statistically speaking, they'd still be poor.

There are NFL players, Actors, etc who live paycheck to pay check.

I like BnB's statement. It has more to do with poor choices than money.

 

[Red1966]

Scariest words "I am with government, I am here to help."



What has NASA done for me.
http://www.techrepublic.com/pictures/nasa-tech-breakthroughs-that-led-to-innovations/1/

Also, I stand corrected NASA did not invent. However, the US gov was greatly involved, if I read this correctly:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet#Networks_that_led_to_the_Internet

The government paid them to do the research, then let them keep all the patents, making them billionaires. Welfare for the rich.

 

[Hazydat620]

Statistically speaking, they'd still be poor.

There are NFL players, Actors, etc who live paycheck to pay check.

I like BnB's statement. It has more to do with poor choices than money.

Good thing BnB had his parents to bail him out of all his poor choices in life.

 

[Red1966]

Fun fact: Studies show that winning the lottery increases your chances for bankruptcy.

Also divorce.

 

[Behind Dark Clouds]

You're starting to get it, but that isn't the reason. I don't care what discretionary measure a company takes to increase its base.

When you've worked hard for a time at a fairly skilled job, and you're on the cusp of being middle class America at $15/hr, then all of a sudden the law changes and we're at a $10/hr minimum, you have just ensured a lot more people are at the poverty line.

If you're making 15, and they raise it to 10, you're poor again.

I care a lot more about the hard working talented people making 15 than I care about those making minimum wage.

If you set minimum wage to $100/hr after a few years when everything sorted it's self out, people making $100/hr would still live paycheck to paycheck. Not be able to save for retirement.

We're always going to have poor people. They're not poor because they don't make much money, they're poor because of how they live their lives.

It's not an income issue it is a decision making issue.

You ever seen that documentary where they gave the poor guy 100 grand?

He blew it all. He was no better off after it.

There are plenty of stories out there of poor people who win a few hundred thousand dollars in the lottery, after a few years they're worse off.

You can't fix poverty with more money. Unless you're willing to dictate to people how they spend it.

Now, you could take a successful person, take everything he has, and there is a damn good chance he will rebuild his wealth.

You've obviously never lived in the bay area, the cost of living is more than the wages.