NBC: Obama's presidency is over

[nontheist]

what part of your day to day life is the government involving itself in?

Uh would hate to see the number of taxes and laws one has to obey/pay in a 24 hours period but it's going to be lengthy list.

 

[Doer]

When MSNBC Is running strong with this, even a old blind sailor like me can sense the sea change,

 

[st0wandgrow]

What do you want the government to do for you?

Represent the PEOPLE of America, not the corporations.

Too much to ask?

 

[ginwilly]

Represent the PEOPLE of America, not the corporations.

Too much to ask?

What if the people just want to be left alone?

 

[st0wandgrow]

What if the people just want to be left alone?

Represent doesn't = micromanage. I too feel that big brother needs to stay out of our business. Unless what I'm doing is harming someone (or their property) then it should be no business of theirs. If I want to grow weed, smoke a joint, shoot up heroin, marry another man, whatever, then I should be able to. Conservatives talk this same talk, but only want "smaller government" when it suits their own selfish interests (ie less taxation, owning whatever type of gun they want, etc). As long as this less intrusive gov't is applied fairly, and equally then I'm all for it.

Where I part ways with this is healthcare issues and environmental issues. IMO gov't should play a role in both. It's a bit hypocritical of me, but I don't think anyone in this country should be denied basic access to health care due to financial reasons. The pursuit of happiness can't be realized if someone is sick and can't afford to see a doctor.

 

[nontheist]

What if the people just want to be left alone?

Having you been paying attention? It means you're a crazy racist bigot. Haven't you been reading the hate speech threads?

http://rollitup.org/t/a-question-for-libertarians.831946/

 

[Doer]

Represent the PEOPLE of America, not the corporations.

Too much to ask?

Corporations are created and maintained, by just people, US citizens mostly. So you straw dog to say there is a distinction.

This is self rule. We aggregate into business and service structures for profit motive,

A Corporation is only a legal protection of the shareholders interests.

 

[st0wandgrow]

Corporations are created and maintained, by just people, US citizens mostly. So you straw dog to say there is a distinction.

This is self rule. We aggregate into business and service structures for profit motive,

A Corporation is only a legal protection of the shareholders interests.

Yes, there is a huge distinction. Publicly traded companies are concerned with only one thing. MORE! More growth, more profit, more corners cut. This growth at any cost mentality very rarely lines up with what the people of America want. It creates a scenario where the handful of people behind these companies with all the money/power have all of the political influence. Our politicians should not be for sale to the highest bidder. They should be concerned with votes, not fundraising. Get corporate America out of the political process. It's at the heart of what's wrong with this country

 

[bu$hleaguer]

. Two unnecesary wars,

Just curious... So when someone flies a plane into our buildings and murders 1000's of our people on our soil we shouldn't go after them and try to kill them?

If you get punched in the face just turn your other cheek I suppose?

Not defending 10 years or any war for that matter, but I'm pretty sure most of the country felt it was justified to bust some ass after 9/11.

 

[bu$hleaguer]

I work in healthcare, but that's cheating.

I get in my car and put my seatbelt on because I want to. If I don't however, I get pulled over and pay a fine. I go to the store and buy groceries that have required labels on each. If I buy a dozen cans of the same soup, the labels are redundant, but mandated. My dollar doesn't buy what it did thanks to the money press. If I make a phone call, not only do I realize it's being monitored and stored, I am paying the fed gov it's piece to make that call. When I stop and buy gas, it contains ethanol which is not the best thing for my tractor and my 85 gold wing to run on. When I get home and check on my garden, there is something missing that I'd like to grow outdoors but can't for fear of prison.

I can't even open a lemonade stand without a permit. It's very intrusive.

With you 100% man.

 

[ginwilly]

Represent doesn't = micromanage. I too feel that big brother needs to stay out of our business. Unless what I'm doing is harming someone (or their property) then it should be no business of theirs. If I want to grow weed, smoke a joint, shoot up heroin, marry another man, whatever, then I should be able to. Conservatives talk this same talk, but only want "smaller government" when it suits their own selfish interests (ie less taxation, owning whatever type of gun they want, etc). As long as this less intrusive gov't is applied fairly, and equally then I'm all for it.

Where I part ways with this is healthcare issues and environmental issues. IMO gov't should play a role in both. It's a bit hypocritical of me, but I don't think anyone in this country should be denied basic access to health care due to financial reasons. The pursuit of happiness can't be realized if someone is sick and can't afford to see a doctor.

How can you call for healthcare without calling for food and shelter which is infinitely more important?

 

[st0wandgrow]

Just curious... So when someone flies a plane into our buildings and murders 1000's of our people on our soil we shouldn't go after them and try to kill them?

If you get punched in the face just turn your other cheek I suppose?

Not defending 10 years or any war for that matter, but I'm pretty sure most of the country felt it was justified to bust some ass after 9/11.

We should hold those people accountable, but as we have all witnessed all out conventional war is both unnecessary and costly. We ended up capturing/killing the supposed mastermind of 9-11 using intel and a navy seal team of 8 troops. Seems a better alternative, no?

 

[bu$hleaguer]

We should hold those people accountable, but as we have all witnessed all out conventional war is both unnecessary and costly. We ended up capturing/killing the supposed mastermind of 9-11 using intel and a navy seal team of 8 troops. Seems a better alternative, no?

Definitely better- war is ridiculous and way way too expensive. But like I said, I really don't think there were very many people opposed to going after them when it happened. Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[AlecTheGardener]

Just curious... So when someone flies a plane into our buildings and murders 1000's of our people on our soil we shouldn't go after them and try to kill them?

If you get punched in the face just turn your other cheek I suppose?

Not defending 10 years or any war for that matter, but I'm pretty sure most of the country felt it was justified to bust some ass after 9/11.

Afghanistan may have had a point to it.


Iraq was a joke, not associated with WTC attack. They claimed it was WMDs, CIA thought he had em', Saddam even though he had them.

Not a good reason for an invasion.

 

[ginwilly]

We should hold those people accountable, but as we have all witnessed all out conventional war is both unnecessary and costly. We ended up capturing/killing the supposed mastermind of 9-11 using intel and a navy seal team of 8 troops. Seems a better alternative, no?

It should also be pointed out he was captured in an "allied" country and not in the ones we sent our troops.

Even Hannibal couldn't take Afghanistan.

 

[st0wandgrow]

How can you call for healthcare without calling for food and shelter which is infinitely more important?

Because that's already accounted for. Even the most meager wage covers a roof over ones head, and food on their table. Not much left after that, so people go without health coverage. How many people do you know that are starving in America? I don't know any. How many people do you know that go without health coverage? I know dozens.

 

[ginwilly]

Afghanistan may have had a point to it.


Iraq was a joke, not associated with WTC attack. They claimed it was WMDs, CIA thought he had em', Saddam even though he had them.

Not a good reason for an invasion.

What was the point of Afghanistan!

 

[bu$hleaguer]

Afghanistan may have had a point to it.


Iraq was a joke, not associated with WTC attack. They claimed it was WMDs, CIA thought he had em', Saddam even though he had them.

Not a good reason for an invasion.

Agree.

 

[ginwilly]

Because that's already accounted for. Even the most meager wage covers a roof over ones head, and food on their table. Not much left after that, so people go without health coverage. How many people do you know that are starving in America? I don't know any. How many people do you know that go without health coverage? I know dozens.

How many of those people could have insurance if you provided food and shelter for them?

Many people are starving here.

 

[st0wandgrow]

Definitely better- war is ridiculous and way way too expensive. But like I said, I really don't think there were very many people opposed to going after them when it happened. Hindsight is 20/20.

Myself included .... but shouldn't we learn from that hindsight? Indiscriminately bombing a country doesn't seem to work so well.