Is Wealth Inequality the Future of Capitalism?

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
According to French economist Thomas Piketty, there’s a simple equation to explain the rise in wealth inequality in the United States: r > g.

The rate of return for owned capital (r) exceeds the overall rate of economic growth (g). Thus, families and individuals who control wealth will accumulate it at a faster rate than the economy can produce it and so will control a much larger portion of the economic pie. The rich get proportionally richer, and the poor get proportionally poorer. And unless something happens to alter the status quo, this trend will continue.

Piketty’s provocative message, shared in his new book, Capital in the Twenty-First Century, as well as in a review article published Thursday to Science, comes amidst growing concern over wealth and income inequality. Two-thirds of Americans, comprised of majorities of Democrats, Republicans, and Independents, are dissatisfied with wealth and income distribution in the U.S. Currently, the richest 10% control 71% of wealth and take home 48% of income. While the former value isn’t unprecedented, the latter is, and when it’s accompanied with the expected widening in the gap of r > g over the coming decades, we can expect to see the top 10% control more wealth than ever before.



(Figure above: The large drop in rate of return (r) in the early-mid 1900s coincided with the massive destruction wrought by World Wars I & II)

Piketty arrived at his conclusion with the aid of researchers from around the globe, particularly economists Anthony Atkinson of the University of Oxford and Emmanuel Saez of the University of California, Berkeley. Together they accumulated a wealth of data the likes of which economics has scarcely seen: tax records for twenty countries dating back to the early 1900s. When assembled into a database, the information allowed Piketty and his colleagues a groundbreaking view of income and wealth inequality.

“Until the Piketty revolution swept through the field, most of what we knew about income and wealth inequality came from surveys, in which randomly chosen households are asked to fill in a questionnaire, and their answers are tallied up to produce a statistical portrait of the whole,” Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman noted in his review of Piketty’s book. But, he added, those surveys are limited in scope.

“They tend to undercount or miss entirely the income that accrues to the handful of individuals at the very top of the income scale. They also have limited historical depth. Even US survey data only take us to 1947.”

Other economists respect Piketty’s attempt to gather massive amounts of empirical data, but question whether or not it grants a complete picture. Kevin Hassett of the American Enterprise Institute contends that Piketty’s tax data leaves out the billions of dollars given out by the federal government via programs like Medicare and income support. Garett Jones, an associate professor of economics at George Mason University argues that r won’t outstrip g as Piketty predicts.

“There’s no inherent tendency for capital to outpace the economy forever.”

Piketty disagrees, offering a more pessimistic outlook. As population growth slows, economic growth will stagnate with it, he says, leading to more inequality. This, in turn, allows the wealthy to exact more control of democracy through monetary contributions.

But the data reveals a path for the trend in wealth inequality to slow or reverse. Piketty recommends reinstating high tax rates on upper level incomes and increasing inheritance taxes.

“When top tax rates were high from 1933 to 1980, bottom 99% incomes grew fast while top 1% incomes grew slowly. In contrast, after 1980, when top tax rates were low, bottom 99% incomes grew slowly while top 1% incomes grew fast.”

But, he acknowledges that his ideas likely won’t be instituted anytime soon.

“In democracies, policies reflect society’s view. Therefore, the ultimate driver of inequality and policy might well be social norms regarding fairness of the distribution of income and wealth.”

Whether or not you agree with Piketty’s policy recommendations, you have to respect his work to bring empiricism back to economics, a “science” too often full of political propaganda and devoid of data.

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/344/6186/838
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rosspomeroy/2014/05/27/is-wealth-inequality-the-future-of-capitalism/
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
According to French economist Thomas Piketty, there’s a simple equation to explain the rise in wealth inequality in the United States: r > g.

The rate of return for owned capital (r) exceeds the overall rate of economic growth (g). Thus, families and individuals who control wealth will accumulate it at a faster rate than the economy can produce it and so will control a much larger portion of the economic pie. The rich get proportionally richer, and the poor get proportionally poorer. And unless something happens to alter the status quo, this trend will continue.

Piketty’s provocative message, shared in his new book, Capital in the Twenty-First Century, as well as in a review article published Thursday to Science, comes amidst growing concern over wealth and income inequality. Two-thirds of Americans, comprised of majorities of Democrats, Republicans, and Independents, are dissatisfied with wealth and income distribution in the U.S. Currently, the richest 10% control 71% of wealth and take home 48% of income. While the former value isn’t unprecedented, the latter is, and when it’s accompanied with the expected widening in the gap of r > g over the coming decades, we can expect to see the top 10% control more wealth than ever before.



(Figure above: The large drop in rate of return (r) in the early-mid 1900s coincided with the massive destruction wrought by World Wars I & II)

Piketty arrived at his conclusion with the aid of researchers from around the globe, particularly economists Anthony Atkinson of the University of Oxford and Emmanuel Saez of the University of California, Berkeley. Together they accumulated a wealth of data the likes of which economics has scarcely seen: tax records for twenty countries dating back to the early 1900s. When assembled into a database, the information allowed Piketty and his colleagues a groundbreaking view of income and wealth inequality.

“Until the Piketty revolution swept through the field, most of what we knew about income and wealth inequality came from surveys, in which randomly chosen households are asked to fill in a questionnaire, and their answers are tallied up to produce a statistical portrait of the whole,” Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman noted in his review of Piketty’s book. But, he added, those surveys are limited in scope.

“They tend to undercount or miss entirely the income that accrues to the handful of individuals at the very top of the income scale. They also have limited historical depth. Even US survey data only take us to 1947.”

Other economists respect Piketty’s attempt to gather massive amounts of empirical data, but question whether or not it grants a complete picture. Kevin Hassett of the American Enterprise Institute contends that Piketty’s tax data leaves out the billions of dollars given out by the federal government via programs like Medicare and income support. Garett Jones, an associate professor of economics at George Mason University argues that r won’t outstrip g as Piketty predicts.

“There’s no inherent tendency for capital to outpace the economy forever.”

Piketty disagrees, offering a more pessimistic outlook. As population growth slows, economic growth will stagnate with it, he says, leading to more inequality. This, in turn, allows the wealthy to exact more control of democracy through monetary contributions.

But the data reveals a path for the trend in wealth inequality to slow or reverse. Piketty recommends reinstating high tax rates on upper level incomes and increasing inheritance taxes.

“When top tax rates were high from 1933 to 1980, bottom 99% incomes grew fast while top 1% incomes grew slowly. In contrast, after 1980, when top tax rates were low, bottom 99% incomes grew slowly while top 1% incomes grew fast.”

But, he acknowledges that his ideas likely won’t be instituted anytime soon.

“In democracies, policies reflect society’s view. Therefore, the ultimate driver of inequality and policy might well be social norms regarding fairness of the distribution of income and wealth.”

Whether or not you agree with Piketty’s policy recommendations, you have to respect his work to bring empiricism back to economics, a “science” too often full of political propaganda and devoid of data.

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/344/6186/838
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rosspomeroy/2014/05/27/is-wealth-inequality-the-future-of-capitalism/
So let me get this straight, in the year 1000 economic growth was 4.5%?

And you claim this to be an example of prime empirical data?

No wonder you're a minimum wage slob moaning about the higher tax brackets.

Are you mad cos you'll never even get close to the top tax bracket?
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
So let me get this straight, in the year 1000 economic growth was 4.5%?

And you claim this to be an example of prime empirical data?

No wonder you're a minimum wage slob moaning about the higher tax brackets.

Are you mad cos you'll never even get close to the top tax bracket?
I make a lot more than minimum wage

I know it's astonishing to people like you someone like me who lives comfortably would actually care about people less financially fortunate than themselves, but I realize the implication to the overall economy of having a really wealthy upper class and a really poor lower/middle class. So do Piketty and Saez
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
I make a lot more than minimum wage

I know it's astonishing to people like you someone like me who lives comfortably would actually care about people less financially fortunate than themselves, but I realize the implication to the overall economy of having a really wealthy upper class and a really poor lower/middle class. So do Piketty and Saez
Wealth inequality really helps no one, simply saying "Let's fuck the top people with a iron dildo emblazoned with a commie red star" isn't going to help anyone either.

You need to start educating your kids for free, it's really as simple as that.

The manufacturing is gone, you need to start more 21st century manufacturing...high level digital.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Wealth inequality really helps no one, simply saying "Let's fuck the top people with a iron dildo emblazoned with a commie red star" isn't going to help anyone either.

You need to start educating your kids for free, it's really as simple as that.

The manufacturing is gone, you need to start more 21st century manufacturing...high level digital.
Because structuring the tax system in a way that ensures the wealthy pay their share is "fucking over the top"...
 

mr lovah

Active Member
I asked this moaning tard what advancements he's made in his life since his thread about the drudgery of living in a cramped apartment with his addict sister and bitchy mother

when I asked what he DOES for work, his response was that he doesn't feel the need to brag about his success like I do


(lol)
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Because structuring the tax system in a way that ensures the wealthy pay their share is "fucking over the top"...
Why not just let them pay the same as everyone else but do away with the million and one credits and reductions they get?

(With the exception of capital gains, it is quite morally structured as long as the only deductions allowed are to offset previous losses)
 

mr lovah

Active Member
Because structuring the tax system in a way that ensures the wealthy pay their share is "fucking over the top"...
what the fuck are you bitching about?

what sort of income denotes the term "wealthy" to you?

I worked with a lead directional driller for Leam Drilling Systems who's my age (27) on a Cyclone Drilling rig whom was contracted by Continental Resources to drill our curves. Last year, he filed $407,000 in taxable income. After paying nearly 50% in federal/state, he paid an additional $10,000

Is that fair enough for you mr burger flipper?

Or is it the ~15% capital gains tax that the "wealthy" pay on their investment income? I quote the term "wealthy" because I realize that's a widely encompassing term, especially to someone as low on the ladder as yourself


Why don't you find something useful to bitch about- like the allocation of our tax dollars to things like gee, idk, WAR? Or the ever-accumulating gross national debt as a product of interest from the international banking system that delegates our government?

I didn't bother reading your post because the thread title asks an irrelevant question. There has not been capitalism in this country, ever, other than rare periods of time when there wasn't a central bank that artificially delegates interest rates. There are no "too big to fails" in a capitalist system. Stop fucking spreading lies by perpetuating the sentiment that we actually have or have EVER HAD capitalism you douche
 
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heckler73

Well-Known Member
A frenchie talking about money in the usa?

.....lol ...lo
l
Hang on, comrade.
The reason he's indubitably using the US as a study is due to the fact they have the most data available, easily. It is the numeraire, if you will, for most economies around the globe. So it doesn't surprise me to see a Frog studying Cowboys. Besides, he's trying to sell a book...who wants to read about cranky croissant munchers and angry, baguette-wielding Union workers taking their bosses hostage... :lol:
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
Here is a revelation for you. Capitalism is and always has been about the unequal distribution of wealth. That you and the frogs are just now figuring that out is kinda funny.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Here is a revelation for you. Capitalism is and always has been about the unequal distribution of wealth. That you and the frogs are just now figuring that out is kinda funny.
Capitalism is about the ownership of the means of production

As usual, you don't know what you're talking about
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Capitalism is about the ownership of the means of production

As usual, you don't know what you're talking about
Capitalism is about *PRIVATE* ownership of the means of production. Anything else is socialism and/or marxism. You are mad because you were born and people around you had more stuff than you did and you figure even though you had no part in their earning of it, some of it must be yours because you 'want' it.

You are never going to get any of it. If you get what you want and the government confiscates more wealth, it is never going to get to you.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Capitalism is about *PRIVATE* ownership of the means of production. Anything else is socialism and/or marxism. You are mad because you were born and people around you had more stuff than you did and you figure even though you had no part in their earning of it, some of it must be yours because you 'want' it.

You are never going to get any of it. If you get what you want and the government confiscates more wealth, it is never going to get to you.
I love these kinds of posts because it shows anyone reading what's really inside the person sitting behind the keyboard

It shows you fall short in many different ways, and it shows you have an extremely tenuous understanding of economics & history
 

mr lovah

Active Member
the thing pad would never admit-


if he actually made good money and was in the upper tax brackets, he wouldn't complain about any of this and he certainly would not advocate for higher taxes

fucking hypocrite
 
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