1000w vert room question

[rickymac21]

So as the title says ill be using a single 1000w hps for the flower room.

My question is kind of complicated, or detailed rather.
Anyways i want to know whats the best foot print size for a vert room using a 1000w.
Heres some things you need to know.
~ the flower room ceiling maxes out At 4.5' ft.
~ the strains being used are indica dominant.
~ the 1000w will be in a cooltube. Not bare bulb.

That seems like the most important info at the moment. But my idea was to fit between 8 and 12 topped plants vegged to around 24"-32" then flipped. I need the girls to be big enough to reach the ceiling of the room to use all available light, but at the same time not overcrowd the room. Nor do i want a room too large to where,my ladies fit but they are so far from the bulb they produce larf.

Any suggestions? This will be my first room ive built specifically for vert so id like to avoid rebuilding.

 

[ttystikk]

First, get used to rebuilding. Besides, every time you do it, you learn something and make your grow better, so what's to be afraid of?

Second, put reflective materials on the ceiling and just beneath the plants- and above the soil/hydro substrate level. You want that light on the plants.

Third, lose the cool tube. Put a fan inside facing directly upward, blown at medium speed. Blow it upwards right next to the lamp, not at it, and up between plants to avoid wind burn. You'll get a nice turnover of air, carrying the heat of a single bulb away nicely. The cool tube is a layer of shit between filament and buds you don't need- so don't use it.

Sounds good so far- good luck!

 

[rickymac21]

First, get used to rebuilding. Besides, every time you do it, you learn something and make your grow better, so what's to be afraid of?

Second, put reflective materials on the ceiling and just beneath the plants- and above the soil/hydro substrate level. You want that light on the plants.

Third, lose the cool tube. Put a fan inside facing directly upward, blown at medium speed. Blow it upwards right next to the lamp, not at it, and up between plants to avoid wind burn. You'll get a nice turnover of air, carrying the heat of a single bulb away nicely. The cool tube is a layer of shit between filament and buds you don't need- so don't use it.

Sounds good so far- good luck!

Thanks for the tips ...
As for the idea of losing the cooltube, my room is only going to be around 125~160 cubic ft total. And it will be sealed since im using co2. Running 1000w barebulb with no AC in a room that small, and no exhaust, might get a little too hot. So for now i think the cool tube is necessary...

 

[m4s73r]

yeah no. First off with a room that small with 1000w, Sealed is not the way to go Even with co2. You will always be fighting heat issues, humidity issues and with that lessthencool tube lumen losses. Making this way more complicated then it needs to be. That cool tube is just a light block and you will still have heat issues. Now if it was barebulb in a 5x5x4.5 room with a 6 inch fan above the bulb sucking air and blowing into a carbon filter then you will do 2 things, vent heat, and change out the air. Not a fan of co2 in small grows where air exchange can be done. Now if you were running a 20x20x8 room with 5 1000 watt lights and AC then co2 can work well in the cost and efficiency. But for what your doing, a $135 for a 6"fan filter combo from Amazon, done.

 

[rickymac21]

yeah no. First off with a room that small with 1000w, Sealed is not the way to go Even with co2. You will always be fighting heat issues, humidity issues and with that lessthencool tube lumen losses. Making this way more complicated then it needs to be. That cool tube is just a light block and you will still have heat issues. Now if it was barebulb in a 5x5x4.5 room with a 6 inch fan above the bulb sucking air and blowing into a carbon filter then you will do 2 things, vent heat, and change out the air. Not a fan of co2 in small grows where air exchange can be done. Now if you were running a 20x20x8 room with 5 1000 watt lights and AC then co2 can work well in the cost and efficiency. But for what your doing, a $135 for a 6"fan filter combo from Amazon, done.

Im not sure i understand. How would a barebulb with the fan over top remove more heat than a cooltube? The room is in the basement where the ambient temp is always between 60~70...
Even if the temp reached 85, the use of co2 would only make the ladies flourish more. The humidity might be an issue but ill have to see where its at once everything is in place. But a simple ventilation system on a timer could take care of that.
That said i would consider barebulb but i just feel i need an ac for that

 

[Flagg420]

your system will cool the 1000w bulb, but in a sealed system that small, the grow area itself will become a veggie steamer. I agree w/ the above posters, go w/ exhaust n fresh air intake over co2 enrichment. Sure its not as rich in CO2, but its never ever low in it either, and the temps are controlled.

Rock a grow or two with cool tubes for yourself, and then get a junk wing reflector w/ a small fan blowing at it, compare the grows. I did. I have 2 cool tubes for sale BTW....

Sometimes we humans just have to prove it to ourselves before we can believe it. IT WORKS FINE.... it just wont ever work amazingly.... that curved sheet of glass rapes your light...

 

[m4s73r]

Im not sure i understand. How would a barebulb with the fan over top remove more heat than a cooltube? The room is in the basement where the ambient temp is always between 60~70...
Even if the temp reached 85, the use of co2 would only make the ladies flourish more. The humidity might be an issue but ill have to see where its at once everything is in place. But a simple ventilation system on a timer could take care of that.
That said i would consider barebulb but i just feel i need an ac for that

The idea is to exhaust the heat before it radiates into the room. By hanging the bulb bare only the glass of the bulb retains heat. By having a fan sucking air right above the bulb it will suck the hot air right out as hot air naturally rises. the little fan on the floor on low speed blowing up helps that natural rise of heat to the fan. Creating a column of air.
Im not saying a cool tube wouldnt work. It will. But if your trying to Maximize your growing space cool tubes are inefficient. And its not just the cool tube that will retain heat, all that aluminum ducting, retains heat, the co2 makes heat, and a 6 inch duct fan will also. (im assuming your doing a burner). And all this is inside the sealed room. well over 12 hours it starts to warm up in there. now you need ac to bring the temps back down.
Yes in a sealed environment you would want to have co2. but heres the thing, why not get your room to the best environment you can. you have a outside ambient of 60-70, thats awesome, why not use that and maintain a 72f room that your plants will suck your nuts over. Kiss this man. Keep it simple stupid. I wish i had a ambient 60s, id have some purple ass shit going on.

anyway, these are just my opinions. I am a passionate cheap lazy grower. I only grow for myself and family and make no profit. GL on your grow, hope to see a grow journal.

 

[rickymac21]

The idea is to exhaust the heat before it radiates into the room. By hanging the bulb bare only the glass of the bulb retains heat. By having a fan sucking air right above the bulb it will suck the hot air right out as hot air naturally rises. the little fan on the floor on low speed blowing up helps that natural rise of heat to the fan. Creating a column of air.
Im not saying a cool tube wouldnt work. It will. But if your trying to Maximize your growing space cool tubes are inefficient. And its not just the cool tube that will retain heat, all that aluminum ducting, retains heat, the co2 makes heat, and a 6 inch duct fan will also. (im assuming your doing a burner). And all this is inside the sealed room. well over 12 hours it starts to warm up in there. now you need ac to bring the temps back down.
Yes in a sealed environment you would want to have co2. but heres the thing, why not get your room to the best environment you can. you have a outside ambient of 60-70, thats awesome, why not use that and maintain a 72f room that your plants will suck your nuts over. Kiss this man. Keep it simple stupid. I wish i had a ambient 60s, id have some purple ass shit going on.

anyway, these are just my opinions. I am a passionate cheap lazy grower. I only grow for myself and family and make no profit. GL on your grow, hope to see a grow journal.

I can see how what your telling me would work.. Its just hard seeing the extra lumens of a barebulb and no co2, outperforming a co2 enroched room. Ive used many different reflectors, one of which being a cooltube. I got my largest harvest while using a cooltube. Granite the yeild was still rookie numbers... That said, ill probably try to run your way first with barebulb and air exchange, but ill probably end up buolding a second room to do a comparison. I think co2 would more than make up for the loss of light from the cooltube.

 

[rickymac21]

Just for kicks lets make a pros and cons list of each design.

Bare bulb with ventilation

Pros
~more useable light
~consistent enviroment conditions due to fresh air coming in and out.

Cons
~plants need to be further from bulb to reduce,chance of heat stress.
~the use of co2 becomes obselite due to air being romed from room.

Cooltube

Pros
~plants can be closer to bulb
~co2 can be used
~the temp would be slightly lower.

Cons
~light is lost through glass
~humidity may beocme issue in a sealed room that small.


I am sorry to keep argueing your advice, especially since ill probably use it. Just trying to make a decision.
I already bought my co2 controller, tank and regulator, so i wanted to use it.
Would it be beneficial to maybe have the vebt above the barebulb on a controller to kick on when temps reach over 85? Then whenever the exhaust fan isnt running i can have the co2 running. Or would i just be wasting too much co2 since the room isnt sealed ?

 

[m4s73r]

I mean, thats up to you. Yes you could run your fan on a thermostat timer. I think that the first couple of times you have to go fill that co2 tank the idea of the co2 will be lost lol. But at least I see now why you want to go c02, you already spent money. But if you want that fan to kick on when it reaches 85, your hitting the max temp of your grow room. So your environment will constantly be in a state of temperature flux. from 75-85. How long will that room last before the fan kicks on to vent. Im guessing 20 min to a half hour. So you'll run your fan for 15 min, kicks off, co2 kicks on and runs for 20 min, then your fan comes back on and suck out all your co2. Or you just run the fan to at 1/3rd speed all the time and your room stays 76f always.

As for the cool tube being a pro for lower temps, if you look at some old grows back when Heath Robinson first started the 600 watt stadium build, he and other started out with a cool tube. It made sense. Then some guy got on and showed a very similar build that was barebulb. Heaths following stadium was a barebulb. He comments on how much easier it was to regulate the temp in his space because he was able to exchange the air from the whole room with out having to run his fan on high because of all the missing ducting and what not and he had lower temps. However, he was in a 8x8x8 room if i remember correctly.

Keep in mind most of this i read about years ago which is why when i made the switch from t5 to hps, i went straight to bare bulb so i didnt have to spend money on a hood. If you have the cool tube set it up and run it both ways and compare for yourself. But i think you will decide to sell that co2 system, cool tube, and ducting. lol So another con to your list of sealed, MORE $$$$$$$$$$

Feel free to argue your point. I love debate. As long as you dont get offended, ill argue till the buds bloom.

 

[rickymac21]

I mean, thats up to you. Yes you could run your fan on a thermostat timer. I think that the first couple of times you have to go fill that co2 tank the idea of the co2 will be lost lol. But at least I see now why you want to go c02, you already spent money. But if you want that fan to kick on when it reaches 85, your hitting the max temp of your grow room. So your environment will constantly be in a state of temperature flux. from 75-85. How long will that room last before the fan kicks on to vent. Im guessing 20 min to a half hour. So you'll run your fan for 15 min, kicks off, co2 kicks on and runs for 20 min, then your fan comes back on and suck out all your co2. Or you just run the fan to at 1/3rd speed all the time and your room stays 76f always.

As for the cool tube being a pro for lower temps, if you look at some old grows back when Heath Robinson first started the 600 watt stadium build, he and other started out with a cool tube. It made sense. Then some guy got on and showed a very similar build that was barebulb. Heaths following stadium was a barebulb. He comments on how much easier it was to regulate the temp in his space because he was able to exchange the air from the whole room with out having to run his fan on high because of all the missing ducting and what not and he had lower temps. However, he was in a 8x8x8 room if i remember correctly.

Keep in mind most of this i read about years ago which is why when i made the switch from t5 to hps, i went straight to bare bulb so i didnt have to spend money on a hood. If you have the cool tube set it up and run it both ways and compare for yourself. But i think you will decide to sell that co2 system, cool tube, and ducting. lol So another con to your list of sealed, MORE $$$$$$$$$$

Feel free to argue your point. I love debate. As long as you dont get offended, ill argue till the buds bloom.

Yea very solid point. I've been reading other threads on the barebulb vs cooltube subject ALL DAY. And really i think i might as well go bare bulb. Ill give it a shot anyways. Ill just make the room slightly larger in length and width. Maybe 7'x7'. But whats a healthy distance to keep the girls from the light? Being vertical and no glass i really have no idea. .

 

[ttystikk]

Run your girls 30-36" from a vertical bare thousand watt bulb.

The sad truth is that having done sealed and vented grows, I found that it does not remove as much heat as it does light. Therefore, it's a game of chasing a diminishing return. No bueno.

 

[m4s73r]

are you going to lst, scrog, just let it grow, those things can also play a factor. If you scrog, id run my screen 24 inches from the bulb, if your going to just let it grow, then 30-36 is proly better.

Edit if there is one thing I would suggest, run it for 12 hours with out any plants in it. I had no idea what i was getting into going from t5 to hps. so thats what i did. I had like 6 thermometers, one next to the bulb, 3 every 12 inches away from it, one in the top of the room and one at the bottom.

 

[MrMeanGreen]

Every inch counts with regards to 'distance to bulb' and light quality. The degradation in light quality will be far higher moving your canopy 18" further away from the bulb than using a cool tube and being 18" closer.

I also defy anybody to do an idoor vertical summer grow with 1200w+ bare bulb without AC. I am talking summer where ambient temps are 25+. The heat control with cool tubes both summer and winter wins it for me hands down, my plants love being 12"-18" from bulbs.

 

[ttystikk]

The guy above is absolutely right. Here's the implication, however;

Five feet in diameter by four feet tall = pi times 5 times four = 15.7 x 4 = 62.8 ft² I used four foot fence panels, so my circumference was exactly sixteen feet, and a diameter of 5'1", for 64 ft².

Go with an eighteen inch diameter circle like the gentleman purpose with the cool tube and see what happens to your total surface area;

3' x pi = 9.42 times four feet tall = 37.68 ft². The cool tube approach lights just over HALF the surface area.

Still think cool tubes are the way to go?

 

[rickymac21]

are you going to lst, scrog, just let it grow, those things can also play a factor. If you scrog, id run my screen 24 inches from the bulb, if your going to just let it grow, then 30-36 is proly better.

Edit if there is one thing I would suggest, run it for 12 hours with out any plants in it. I had no idea what i was getting into going from t5 to hps. so thats what i did. I had like 6 thermometers, one next to the bulb, 3 every 12 inches away from it, one in the top of the room and one at the bottom.

Im not worried about the bulb. Ive been growing with hps since the start. Just not a 1000w yet.. Anyways, ill probably build a trellis for each individual plant and scrog them that way. Just so i can take the plant out and work on it if need be.

 

[m4s73r]

The guy above is absolutely right. Here's the implication, however;

Five feet in diameter by four feet tall = pi times 5 times four = 15.7 x 4 = 62.8 ft² I used four foot fence panels, so my circumference was exactly sixteen feet, and a diameter of 5'1", for 64 ft².

Go with an eighteen inch diameter circle like the gentleman purpose with the cool tube and see what happens to your total surface area;

3' x pi = 9.42 times four feet tall = 37.68 ft². The cool tube approach lights just over HALF the surface area.

Still think cool tubes are the way to go?

Effing math and its math-ness

 

[rickymac21]

I guess what it comes down to is the use of co2 with the cool tube wont outperform the barebulb with intake and exhaust.. I appreciate everyones input and willingness to elaborate their experiences. Definitely gonna save me some money and time..

Ill be building in a few weeks so ill take pictures when its all said and done.

 

[MrMeanGreen]

The guy above is absolutely right. Here's the implication, however;

Five feet in diameter by four feet tall = pi times 5 times four = 15.7 x 4 = 62.8 ft² I used four foot fence panels, so my circumference was exactly sixteen feet, and a diameter of 5'1", for 64 ft².

Go with an eighteen inch diameter circle like the gentleman purpose with the cool tube and see what happens to your total surface area;

3' x pi = 9.42 times four feet tall = 37.68 ft². The cool tube approach lights just over HALF the surface area.

Still think cool tubes are the way to go?

This young man also, is spot on with the above numbers, but one must also consider that the light quality to that increased area is less than half of the quality of the light a tighter grow recieves.

Also, your numbers don't apply to my grow. "i did it my way" thread. I have 6 plants @ 5ft tall. Each plant is approx 2ft across and they rotate. So my total surface area is 15.7 x 2 = 31.4ft. Muliply that by six plants = 188.4ft.

Still think bare bulb is the way to go?

It's all about trade off's with growing conditions and tinkering to find what suites.

 

[m4s73r]

This young man also, is spot on with the above numbers, but one must also consider that the light quality to that increased area is less than half of the quality of the light a tighter grow recieves.

Also, your numbers don't apply to my grow. "i did it my way" thread. I have 6 plants @ 5ft tall. Each plant is approx 2ft across and they rotate. So my total surface area is 15.7 x 2 = 31.4ft. Muliply that by six plants = 188.4ft.

Still think bare bulb is the way to go?

It's all about trade off's with growing conditions and tinkering to find what suites.

I remember that thread about the automatic plant movers, back in '12. I thought it was decided to be a waste of time yield wise.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/is-plant-rotation-really-necessary.703013/
So you would need to figure out the rotation as well as how long each part of the plant was exposed to the light.