LED Lights from LEDLIGHTSCHINA on eBay - Wattage Questions???

[az2000]

Thanks for the heads up Vipar was the first brand I came across but someone told me to stay clear because their claims of full spectrum are false and they include ir and uv in addition to using a ratio of 9:1 or 8:1. I was just looking for a inexpensive light with 180-300 watts for 100 bucks or less, LOL I know. Are Blackstar lights any good for veg and flower, (same questions with the Vipar)?

Personally, I think VIPAR is no different than TopLED/Mars. They're both cheap Chinese import. There are people growing with Mars here and on other forums. I see just as many as VIPAR, if not more.

I have some Blackstars. I was getting 1g/w from their 135w (85w actual) UFO. They're not bad, but they're Chinese imports like VIPAR or TopLED/Mars. They're just presented like an on-shore light, with on-shore support, etc. You pay a premium for that. I don't think you'd be disappointed with the results. But, for the money you'd spend on Blackstar, you might as well buy Area 51. I have the RW and XGS and wowee.

 

[az2000]

This rob guy is just not thinking too clearly if he wants to buy LEDs like they are just throw away lights

It's just another view point, no need to imply that his cognitive capacity is limited. Some people may not be prepared to invest as deeply into LED before knowing if it suits them. There was a guy who posted here a few months ago who has a rather large cash-crop operation. He said he buys 5-10 cheap lights off eBay at a time, them for a year and replaces when they fail. For him, a disposable commodity was better than investing deeply in an Apache, et. al.

I'm an all-roads-lead-to-Rome kind of guy. I figure people will get there however they wish. Not everyone has the same priorities/requirements. Some of the Chinese lights aren't terrible. I.e., there are worse choices that could be made. As long as people know that they won't get the electricity and heat benefits, etc., I see it as a valid way to go.

 

[az2000]

Thank you rob333 for the info, so I could (being a newbie) buy one of theses lights for my small needs and get like 2 or three ounces of a plant with the proper nutes for maybe two years or so before it needs replacement or replacement parts

Per-plant yield depends on how large the plant is. IMO, it's better to think of grams per watt, and how many watts per square foot you'll need (and how many plants you can fit into a square foot, or how tall they'll be, which may require additional watts for penetration or side-lighting). 1g per watt is what people strive for, and you need about 35-40w/sq ft of cheap Chinese LED (or, 25w/sq ft of quality LED like A51).

I got 95-100g from a Blackstar UFO running 85w actual. That was approximately 21w/sq ft which was underpowered for the space. Lately I added 4 Cree lightbulbs from Home Depot (<<link) to bring that up to 30w/sq ft. (The Cree light is more in the high-quality category, so I think I'm in the sweet spot now with a combination of quality light and cheap Chinese.). I harvested a few days ago and the buds have been steady at 64% in the jar. They weigh 155g. That's 1.12g per watt. The per-watt yield is about the same, but I got more per square foot by adding more light, and I did it with fewer watts per square foot by using higher-quality light.

If you're starting out, I think you'll be happy with a Chinese import. The downsides are that the spectrum might not be as finally tuned as an Area51. The electrical consumption and heat won't be as good. But, just starting out, I would have been very pleased with anything near 1g per watt, or 30g per sq. ft. After seeing that, the hook would have been set and I'd be forking money out for more Cree bulbs and/or A51 fixtures.

You just have to be prepared for how they may not last as long, may not produce dense buds, won't have the penetration (you'll need sidelighting, or keep the plants shorter via reduced veg time, scrog, training, etc). You could have a disappointing support experience. From what I hear, Chinese sellers tend to "negotiate" warranty service by playing the angle that you have to mail the fixture back to China. From that starting point they try to get a little money for mailing replacement parts to you. Not a bad deal, but you have to set your expectations accordingly. Even to the point that you may have a disposable light, which isn't the end of the world for $150.

Where I think it doesn't make sense is when someone buys a rebranded Chinese import at a premium for that more on-shore experience. For example, if you'd pay for a Blackstar, you might as well spend the relatively small additional amount for an A51, Onyx, Hans Panel, or Cree lightbulbs. (That's especially true when you get into rebranded imports like HydroGrowLED, BlackDog, GrowBlu which leverage a "secret sauce" hype.).

 

[High Powered]

Per-plant yield depends on how large the plant is. IMO, it's better to think of grams per watt, and how many watts per square foot you'll need (and how many plants you can fit into a square foot, or how tall they'll be, which may require additional watts for penetration or side-lighting). 1g per watt is what people strive for, and you need about 35-40w/sq ft of cheap Chinese LED (or, 25w/sq ft of quality LED like A51).

I got 95-100g from a Blackstar UFO running 85w actual. That was approximately 21w/sq ft which was underpowered for the space. Lately I added 4 Cree lightbulbs from Home Depot (<<link) to bring that up to 30w/sq ft. (The Cree light is more in the high-quality category, so I think I'm in the sweet spot now with a combination of quality light and cheap Chinese.). I harvested a few days ago and the buds have been steady at 64% in the jar. They weigh 155g. That's 1.12g per watt. The per-watt yield is about the same, but I got more per square foot by adding more light, and I did it with fewer watts per square foot by using higher-quality light.

If you're starting out, I think you'll be happy with a Chinese import. The downsides are that the spectrum might not be as finally tuned as an Area51. The electrical consumption and heat won't be as good. But, just starting out, I would have been very pleased with anything near 1g per watt, or 30g per sq. ft. After seeing that, the hook would have been set and I'd be forking money out for more Cree bulbs and/or A51 fixtures.

You just have to be prepared for how they may not last as long, may not produce dense buds, won't have the penetration (you'll need sidelighting, or keep the plants shorter via reduced veg time, scrog, training, etc). You could have a disappointing support experience. From what I hear, Chinese sellers tend to "negotiate" warranty service by playing the angle that you have to mail the fixture back to China. From that starting point they try to get a little money for mailing replacement parts to you. Not a bad deal, but you have to set your expectations accordingly. Even to the point that you may have a disposable light, which isn't the end of the world for $150.

Where I think it doesn't make sense is when someone buys a rebranded Chinese import at a premium for that more on-shore experience. For example, if you'd pay for a Blackstar, you might as well spend the relatively small additional amount for an A51, Onyx, Hans Panel, or Cree lightbulbs. (That's especially true when you get into rebranded imports like HydroGrowLED, BlackDog, GrowBlu which leverage a "secret sauce" hype.).

Per-plant yield depends on how large the plant is. IMO, it's better to think of grams per watt, and how many watts per square foot you'll need (and how many plants you can fit into a square foot, or how tall they'll be, which may require additional watts for penetration or side-lighting). 1g per watt is what people strive for, and you need about 35-40w/sq ft of cheap Chinese LED (or, 25w/sq ft of quality LED like A51).

I got 95-100g from a Blackstar UFO running 85w actual. That was approximately 21w/sq ft which was underpowered for the space. Lately I added 4 Cree lightbulbs from Home Depot (<<link) to bring that up to 30w/sq ft. (The Cree light is more in the high-quality category, so I think I'm in the sweet spot now with a combination of quality light and cheap Chinese.). I harvested a few days ago and the buds have been steady at 64% in the jar. They weigh 155g. That's 1.12g per watt. The per-watt yield is about the same, but I got more per square foot by adding more light, and I did it with fewer watts per square foot by using higher-quality light.

If you're starting out, I think you'll be happy with a Chinese import. The downsides are that the spectrum might not be as finally tuned as an Area51. The electrical consumption and heat won't be as good. But, just starting out, I would have been very pleased with anything near 1g per watt, or 30g per sq. ft. After seeing that, the hook would have been set and I'd be forking money out for more Cree bulbs and/or A51 fixtures.

You just have to be prepared for how they may not last as long, may not produce dense buds, won't have the penetration (you'll need sidelighting, or keep the plants shorter via reduced veg time, scrog, training, etc). You could have a disappointing support experience. From what I hear, Chinese sellers tend to "negotiate" warranty service by playing the angle that you have to mail the fixture back to China. From that starting point they try to get a little money for mailing replacement parts to you. Not a bad deal, but you have to set your expectations accordingly. Even to the point that you may have a disposable light, which isn't the end of the world for $150.

Where I think it doesn't make sense is when someone buys a rebranded Chinese import at a premium for that more on-shore experience. For example, if you'd pay for a Blackstar, you might as well spend the relatively small additional amount for an A51, Onyx, Hans Panel, or Cree lightbulbs. (That's especially true when you get into rebranded imports like HydroGrowLED, BlackDog, GrowBlu which leverage a "secret sauce" hype.).

Thank you for an honest breakdown that wasn't biased, I keep hearing about the brands you just mentioned and was wondering if they were placebos; I'm going to try a inexpensive eBay light that boasts a claim of full spectrum. I had no idea names like Mars and Blackstar were rebranded

 

[rob333]

Thank you for an honest breakdown that wasn't biased, I keep hearing about the brands you just mentioned and was wondering if they were placebos; I'm going to try a inexpensive eBay light that boasts a claim of full spectrum. I had no idea names like Mars and Blackstar were rebranded

fuck them guys man they smoke to much weed trust som1 that has done it not some people on rollitup that have pipe dreams only thing thats cheap in the chinese leds are the medal they use to make em lolol lights are clones of the best sellers like cob and vero also so are the drivers its just means its made there and if chinese stuff is so so so shit why is 90% of our houses filled with it ?? see my point

 

[budman111]

If you're going to go the inexpensive, eBay route, go with Vipar LED.

Im with him 100%, I have been using them for years, not the best LED on the market but the bang for your buck is absolutely unquestionable.

 

[High Powered]

Why waste your money on garbage when there is such better products out there for nearly the same price. This rob guy is just not thinking too clearly if he wants to buy LEDs like they are just throw away lights to be replaced like HPS bulbs once a year, buy a quality light and it will last for years. I would suggest an area 51 led, here's their website www.a51led.com

The thread is about eBay lights because, we are looking for inexpensive lighting, a A51 light cost way more than a hps with a cooling system, which is not an option for us. I thank you for your response, but I am looking for a cheap led that works for my small needs if you have any first hand experience or have witness one of the lights in question, I would appreciate an account of those stories.

 

[High Powered]

Would it be difficult to make my own LED light using quality LED chips?

 

[Ace Yonder]

Why waste your money on garbage when there is such better products out there for nearly the same price. This rob guy is just not thinking too clearly if he wants to buy LEDs like they are just throw away lights to be replaced like HPS bulbs once a year, buy a quality light and it will last for years. I would suggest an area 51 led, here's their website www.a51led.com

You realize that 90% of A51 lights are made in China also right? Only the actual Diode is made in USA (Supposedly), everything else (Casing, heatsink, driver, etc.) are all made in china. (From THEIR website http://a51led.com/store/index.php?main_page=page&id=5 "Q: Where are your lights made?
A: The housing case and heat sinks are made in China. The LEDs were made in the USA. Drivers and fans come from China").

 

[az2000]

You realize that 90% of A51 lights are made in China also right? Only the actual Diode is made in USA (Supposedly), everything else (Casing, heatsink, driver, etc.) are all made in china.

From what I understand, they are assembled in the US from the Chinese parts you mentioned. And, that the diodes are either US made or made in a Cree factory in China to Cree's standards (not a sub-license operation).

If you know you're going to do LED, A51 is definitely superior in build, quality control, efficiency, lifetime support. You have a good point that the industry is evolving and today's tech will be replaced soon. But, A51 has an upgrade promise in its limited lifetime warranty. It's not been made available yet because the jumps in technology haven't been that substantial. (Maybe the 10w chips will cause an upgrade to be available.).

But, I also agree with your point that disposable lights (direct-from-china) aren't an invalid choice for someone just starting, unwilling to invest more than $100 to see if they can get through a grow or two. I would definitely recommend a semi-reputable source like Vipar(ebay) or TopLED/MarsHydro. I'd stay away from the small-time resellers like JoyHydro. You'll have more community leverage with the better known imports (Vipar ebay is connected to Vipar UK which seems to come from a more traditional web presence and is concerned about its reputation. One guy got shafted by the US ebay seller and got the UK entity to lean on the seller. TopLED has a support forum on 420mag. While you can't be an antagonist, negative feedback is tolerated and they try to keep it to a minimum. Either of those options is immensely better than dealing with a nameless entity in China who drop ships to the US, like JoyHydro.).

 

[Ace Yonder]

From what I understand, they are assembled in the US from the Chinese parts you mentioned. And, that the diodes are either US made or made in a Cree factory in China to Cree's standards (not a sub-license operation).

If you know you're going to do LED, A51 is definitely superior in build, quality control, efficiency, lifetime support. You have a good point that the industry is evolving and today's tech will be replaced soon. But, A51 has an upgrade promise in its limited lifetime warranty. It's not been made available yet because the jumps in technology haven't been that substantial. (Maybe the 10w chips will cause an upgrade to be available.).

But, I also agree with your point that disposable lights (direct-from-china) aren't an invalid choice for someone just starting, unwilling to invest more than $100 to see if they can get through a grow or two. I would definitely recommend a semi-reputable source like Vipar(ebay) or TopLED/MarsHydro. I'd stay away from the small-time resellers like JoyHydro. You'll have more community leverage with the better known imports (Vipar ebay is connected to Vipar UK which seems to come from a more traditional web presence and is concerned about its reputation. One guy got shafted by the US ebay seller and got the UK entity to lean on the seller. TopLED has a support forum on 420mag. While you can't be an antagonist, negative feedback is tolerated and they try to keep it to a minimum. Either of those options is immensely better than dealing with a nameless entity in China who drop ships to the US, like JoyHydro.).

I totally agree, and I understand A51 is a superior product, I was just saying that it's kind of hypocritical to dismiss anything made in china as "Junk" and then recommend something where the majority of it's parts are manufactured in china.

 

[rob333]

I totally agree, and I understand A51 is a superior product, I was just saying that it's kind of hypocritical to dismiss anything made in china as "Junk" and then recommend something where the majority of it's parts are manufactured in china.

alot of chinese stuff is based of stuff thats is already on the market they just clone it with there own stuff they have there i have had lights shit them selves that are made in the u.s germany and 1 aussie light wile the chinese lights are still kiken strong and if they do crap them selves the parts are ultra cheap to fix like the driver i got my sparky to put in cost me 3 bucks off ebay from china and 10 bucks for him to install if i was to say to the same thing with clw or budmaster i would be looking at tripple the price

 

[Ace Yonder]

alot of chinese stuff is based of stuff thats is already on the market they just clone it with there own stuff they have there i have had lights shit them selves that are made in the u.s germany and 1 aussie light wile the chinese lights are still kiken strong and if they do crap them selves the parts are ultra cheap to fix like the driver i got my sparky to put in cost me 3 bucks off ebay from china and 10 bucks for him to install if i was to say to the same thing with clw or budmaster i would be looking at tripple the price

Yeah, china actually has just as good if not better production facilities than most of what we have stateside anyways, as soon as most of our stuff became imported it just became too expensive to match the output and quality while maintaining profit margins, for many reasons including higher property costs, higher wages, more taxes, etc. (Not saying it's a good thing, just saying that's the way it is) If you want to produce in america with the same profit margins you either need to lower quality, lower quantity, or raise the price. Even top of the line manufacturers like CREE have Chinese production facilities (Huizhou for CREE for instance) that produce a bulk of even their top tier products. A lot of places get around letting us know about this by making the parts over there and assembling the products here and saying "Built U.S.A." instead of "Made in U.S.A.". But anyone who has actually been to factories in the U.S. and factories in China will tell you that there's not much we can do that they can't. There was a time where "Made in U.S.A." meant something, nowadays even if it's true it's hardly a guarantee of superior quality.

 

[rob333]

Yeah, china actually has just as good if not better production facilities than most of what we have stateside anyways, as soon as most of our stuff became imported it just became too expensive to match the output and quality while maintaining profit margins, for many reasons including higher property costs, higher wages, more taxes, etc. (Not saying it's a good thing, just saying that's the way it is) If you want to produce in america with the same profit margins you either need to lower quality, lower quantity, or raise the price. Even top of the line manufacturers like CREE have Chinese production facilities (Huizhou for CREE for instance) that produce a bulk of even their top tier products. A lot of places get around letting us know about this by making the parts over there and assembling the products here and saying "Built U.S.A." instead of "Made in U.S.A.". But anyone who has actually been to factories in the U.S. and factories in China will tell you that there's not much we can do that they can't. There was a time where "Made in U.S.A." meant something, nowadays even if it's true it's hardly a guarantee of superior quality.

good post man u hit the nail on the head my old man use to do quality controll for japan china britan and the u.s.a and from the production line photos from the u.s.a compared to china or japan asian countrys walk all over them

 

[rob333]

good post man u hit the nail on the head my old man use to do quality controll for japan china britan and the u.s.a and from the production line photos from the u.s.a compared to china or japan asian countrys walk all over them

neater cleaner better products each line is quality controlled checked every line unlike u.s.a or britan only checked when the product is finished

 

[Yodaweed]

They are good at assembling the products for sure, but customer service? Lol they have none, you will have to learn Chinese to talk to them and if you ever need anything for your light like it breaks I highly doubt you will get it without waiting about 1-2 months for shipping alone IF they even decide your under their warranty. There is a reason you pay a little more for state side customer support a good example is blackstar, they are just Chinese lights but they have a good reputable state side store that they ship from and do all their customer service from so if you get a defective light you can call someone who can speak English and you know you are covered. These Chinese ebay lights can be a total crapshoot if anything is wrong with them on arrival there is a strong chance you are just SOL.

 

[Hoobeedoobeedoo]

First post here so please forgive if I'm not in with the protocols. I'm using LEDs right now and this is my first home medical grow. I have two 300w lights form a company called Elite660. We have 6 plants with 3 under each light in a small, triangle shape(two Purple Haze, two GSC, two OG Kush). These little lights are popping up all around Denver right now. I like them so far because they don't get so hot in the smaller space that I have. I'm running them just a little under 12 twelve inches from most of my tops, maybe 10 inches or so. Keeping the room around 35%rh and 82-84 degrees fahrenheit. It's tough to get the rh any higher than 40-45%, and that's usually right after a foliar feeding. I feel I am getting great results so far. Week 3 of flower and seeing really nice trichome coverage, good flower development, as well as beginning to get some delicious smells(the Purple Haze smells like sweet candy!). For sure can I see how you need to have the temperature higher in the room with the LEDs though to get same results. I've talked to shitloads of growers out here too who oddly enough do not know that many companies recommend that. They just get some LEDs and throw them in their regular grow on a side-by-side test next to an HPS, then when they don't get the same results they bum out on the lights instead of just realizing they need to give the lights their own closed system just like they do for the HPS grow room. Here's the best pics I can get currently of the Purple Haze. These are from last week though and we've had lots of goodness over the weekend.

 

[REALSTYLES]

Stay away from the Mars Hydro panels, they're bad news. Notice that nobody around here uses them. If you're going to go the inexpensive, eBay route, go with Vipar LED.

Ah it's a little to late for me


I use them for my clone and seedling tents and the higher wattage for my grow



But Chinese LED sucks like all the stuff made in China like Nike and Addidas.

 

[Bad Karma]

But Chinese LED sucks like all the stuff made in China like Nike and Addidas.

I hope you have better luck with your garden, than this attempt at trolling.

 

[mc130p]

I hope you have better luck with your garden, than this attempt at trolling.

These guys obviously already know everything, that's why they're rehashing crappy grows with these lights...Notice none of them show any buds, just talk about what if's, and what should or could be, and the principle...but never reality...