New setup advice needed

JSB99

JSB99

Well-Known Member
I'm starting a new setup soon after a few years of being out of it. I've built too many cabinets so I've decided to go with a Gorilla 4'x4' tent with the height extension. I'm planning on setting up a 4 bucket UC RDWC with the reservoir, controller, and cooler outside the tent (meaning there will only be 4 buckets in the tent). I'll have to make a couple holes on the side of the tent for the pipes but I'll stitch black socks to the holes in the tent or something and that should work to seal the pipes running through the side. I plan on using 2" pipe for the buckets and probably a Rio 3000 pump feeding the raised chiller then draining into the controller. I'll also have my reservoir raised and gravity-feed the controller with a float valve. I also plan on tapping into my plumbing and feeding my reservoir with a float valve as well. Everything that contains water will have an overflow pipe and drain since this will be inside my spare bedroom.

So, some of the questions I have are:

would it be better to run a single 1000w in a blockbuster hood, two 600's in two smaller hoods, or a 1000w in a smaller hood on a light mover? all hoods will be sealed.

would tower fans in the corners of the tent work better than oscillating fans mounted to the frame?

would these suffice as bulkhead fittings http://www.truetex.com/bulkhead.htm or should I use a different method?

I can't seem to find black square buckets anywhere and I'd like to use them for better surface area on the bulkheads. Should I be concerned about this and if so, can anyone tell me where to get square buckets and lids?

The Gorilla tents have mesh pre-filters. I don't understand these. Wouldn't light leak from them when open?

what's better, large air stones or perforated tubing

Thanks to anyone wanting to give me advice
 
B

BShillington

Member
Hey there.

If you're running such a small setup, you might want to go with coolers or custom build a res tank with MDF board layered with 1/2-1 in foam with waterproofing on top (pond liners, PVC or better yet EPDM). If you use buckets, you lose precious height especially in such a small grow space, not to mention wasted electricity trying to chill water that's not well insulated.

I had to learn that the hard way, had an 1/4 hp water chiller working quite hard on 9 buckets (8+1 control) and condensation would even build up on the buckets.

Given your small space, I'd stick some oscillating fans to the frame.

As for the bulkheads, it doesn't really matter, as long as you can create a decent seal. I used marine grade amazing goop with bulkhead fittings on 5 gallon buckets - that was a bitch to deal with even with a hole saw and exact sized holes since the bucket would deform when I tried screwing it in. Eventually with enough goop, I took care of all the leaks. Save yourself the trouble and get something flat or build your own res.

As for the mesh filters, that's just to let your plants breathe and when you're dealing with heat. And believe me, running 1kw or 2x600 in 4x4 is insane heat wise. I ran 2x600 in a 4x8 tent and even then I had to turn up the fans. If you really want to push it, go with 1KW but I'd stick with 1x600, especially the newer DE bulbs that can go 600/750 unless you want to run AC/CO2.

I've tried perforated tubing once - barely let out any air. You need some decent (see loud, hot) air pumps for those to really do their thing. Just get cheap 8in air stones, you'll be throwing them out after a grow or two anyway as they get dirty, clog, or break.

Good luck to ya.
 
JSB99

JSB99

Well-Known Member
BShillington said:
Hey there.

If you're running such a small setup, you might want to go with coolers or custom build a res tank with MDF board layered with 1/2-1 in foam with waterproofing on top (pond liners, PVC or better yet EPDM). If you use buckets, you lose precious height especially in such a small grow space, not to mention wasted electricity trying to chill water that's not well insulated.

I had to learn that the hard way, had an 1/4 hp water chiller working quite hard on 9 buckets (8+1 control) and condensation would even build up on the buckets.

Given your small space, I'd stick some oscillating fans to the frame.

As for the bulkheads, it doesn't really matter, as long as you can create a decent seal. I used marine grade amazing goop with bulkhead fittings on 5 gallon buckets - that was a bitch to deal with even with a hole saw and exact sized holes since the bucket would deform when I tried screwing it in. Eventually with enough goop, I took care of all the leaks. Save yourself the trouble and get something flat or build your own res.

As for the mesh filters, that's just to let your plants breathe and when you're dealing with heat. And believe me, running 1kw or 2x600 in 4x4 is insane heat wise. I ran 2x600 in a 4x8 tent and even then I had to turn up the fans. If you really want to push it, go with 1KW but I'd stick with 1x600, especially the newer DE bulbs that can go 600/750 unless you want to run AC/CO2.

I've tried perforated tubing once - barely let out any air. You need some decent (see loud, hot) air pumps for those to really do their thing. Just get cheap 8in air stones, you'll be throwing them out after a grow or two anyway as they get dirty, clog, or break.

Good luck to ya.
Click to expand...
Hey, thanks for the advice. Since you've pointed some issues out I can see that I was trying to overdo things (like the lights). I'd really like to have six buckets in a 4x6 tent but I just can't seem to find any in that size. Like I said, I've built too many cabinets and my health just doesn't allow me to construct things like that anymore. I guess I could get a 4x8 and run a 600w on a rail. I'll have to think about that.

So you don't think I'd gain anything from running a 1/10hp chiller for the controller? I was planning on using a standard 18 to 20 gallon storage totes for my controller and reservoir.

As far as heat, I'll use a robust inline fan for the hood and the grow will be in an air conditioned home. Not worried about the extra electricity cost in the summer if I even decide to grow in summer. I'm going to have some mums under a t5 hood so I may skip summers or reverse the light schedule during the hot season. I'm just growing medical for myself.
 
B

BShillington

Member
Jesus that's an expensive tent. I used Gotham Hydro's tent which were 900D iirc and had a waterproof floor. Really liked the quality.

Remember, nobody actually builds these things, they just import them from Chinese manufacturers on alibaba. There'll be minor differences in material quality but for the most part just get a cheap one at least for the tent.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/96-x-48-x-84-Mylar-Lighthouse-Hydroponics-Grow-Tent-Room-8x4x7-T009-/311062782385

As for the light, never really tried 4x6 but I reckon with a large reflector you can cover it with 1kW. Always go for the DE bulbs since you don't have to replace them as often and they're quite a bit more efficient.

Also, I thought originally I could run a 6 in inline duct through my reflectors and have the tent be in the 80-90F range. Boy was I wrong. Tent shot up to 100'F in ~30 minutes and I scrambled to redo my air work - wound up with something like this...

Air ---> Carbon Filter --> Duct --> Reflector --> Duct --> Inline fan running ~40-60% depending on temp --> Duct to near outside

You want the duct for expelling air to dump it outside or at least far from the tent or it'll just heat up the area and keep rising. Also if you're growing in your house, you might want to keep an ear out for noise - inline fans are crazy loud at 100%. Might want to get a controller.

Also keep in mind 6 in ducted reflectors are more efficient than 8 in due to more reflective area and less loss to light in the ducts.

Finally, you can probably get away with 1/10 - 1/8 HP chiller, they'll just be working harder. Storage totes are okay but if you're going that route you might as well get a water cooler. A cheap rubber maid cooler will work fine and you can even attach a hose to the drain port with some glue/clamps.

Good luck.
 
Last edited:
dbkick

dbkick

Well-Known Member
dbkick

dbkick

Well-Known Member
22 dollars at walmart and these can't be beat (although I had to go to the 1/2 inch bulkhead so it would fit the flat part where the original spigot was.
 

Attachments

JSB99

JSB99

Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the advice. I was planning on running two fans. One for the light and one for the circulation...both with controllers. In the winter I was going to feed the exhaust into another room and in the summer exhaust outside or in the attic. Not worried about noise or anything, although I do want to make it as quiet as I can without sacrificing performance.

I like the cooler idea.

And yeah, I thought the tent was pretty pricey as well. I'll take a look at the ones that were suggested.

Thanks for the help
 
dbkick

dbkick

Well-Known Member
And as for lighting if you insist on conventional HID go with 2- 600s although that seems a lot for a 4by4 tent .
If you want to step it up a bit take a look at sun systems LEC315 . I bought one and liked it so much I bought another.
Hung a couple onyx bloom led between them on a lightrail. Looks like this. Here';s some more detail on the igloos.
 

Attachments

JSB99

JSB99

Well-Known Member
dbkick said:
And as for lighting if you insist on conventional HID go with 2- 600s although that seems a lot for a 4by4 tent .
If you want to step it up a bit take a look at sun systems LEC315 . I bought one and liked it so much I bought another.
Hung a couple onyx bloom led between them on a lightrail. Looks like this. Here';s some more detail on the igloos.
Click to expand...
Very cool

The more I think of how I want to set my system up the more I find limitations with tents (like the height and ports). Now I'm thinking about going back to my cab design which would be made from 3/4" melamine white panel boards. Basically a 4 x 6 x 8 grow area (veg and flower) with a 600w DE on a rail on the left side, a 2 x 2.5 x 4 for 6 or 8 mums under 2' T5s on the right bottom, 2 x 2.5 x 4 for clones under CFLs or 2' T5s on the right top on a shelf above the mums, controller in a 2 x 1.5 x 2 spot, reservoir above that on a shelf in a 2 x 1.5 x 2 spot (this would be the lower 2 x 1.5 x 4 cabinet section on the right side behind the mums), the chiller in the cabinet above that in a 2 x 1.5 x 2 spot, and then supplies on a shelf above in a 2 x 1.5 x 2 spot (this would be the upper-back cabinet on the right side behind the clones)

Probably be easier to sketch it out
 
dbkick

dbkick

Well-Known Member
I'd like to try those DE but I was told they get incredibly hot.
I'm really liking the lec 315 but I've only had them a short time. we'll see if I change my tune in about 7 weeks.
Low wattage high efficiency, very little heat. Intense light at the right spectrum.
 
B

BShillington

Member
Hey db, I looked into your lec 315 and wasn't really impressed by the specs. Not trying to insult you or anything, just pointing it out.

I looked up the CMH bulb the lec 315 uses - CDM-T Elite 315/930/U/E Agro Lamp - you mainly want to look at Photosynthetic Photon Flux or PPF for efficiency since that's what plants absorb most.

DE - http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/lamps/high-intensity-discharge-lamps/hid-horticulture/horti/928196305116_EU/product

CMH - http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/lamps/compact-high-intensity-discharge/mastercolour-cdm/mastercolor-cdm-t-elite-med-wattage-agro/928601172201_NA/product

The CMH bulb puts out 1.9 umol/s compared to the DE's 2,100 umol/s

The 600/750 DE's put out ~1500 umol/s

At first I thought that was a typo but that's what Phillips says...
 
dbkick

dbkick

Well-Known Member
BShillington said:
Hey db, I looked into your lec 315 and wasn't really impressed by the specs. Not trying to insult you or anything, just pointing it out.

I looked up the CMH bulb the lec 315 uses - CDM-T Elite 315/930/U/E Agro Lamp - you mainly want to look at Photosynthetic Photon Flux or PPF for efficiency since that's what plants absorb most.

DE - http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/lamps/high-intensity-discharge-lamps/hid-horticulture/horti/928196305116_EU/product

CMH - http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/lamps/compact-high-intensity-discharge/mastercolour-cdm/mastercolor-cdm-t-elite-med-wattage-agro/928601172201_NA/product

The CMH bulb puts out 1.9 umol/s compared to the DE's 2,100 umol/s

The 600/750 DE's put out ~1500 umol/s

At first I thought that was a typo but that's what Phillips says...
Click to expand...
From what I've seen first hand (but keep in mind I haven't run an entire cycle) these lights at that wattage kill.
Of course I don't expect it to keep up with a lamp running at twice the wattage.
Also twice the heat produced .
 
JSB99

JSB99

Well-Known Member
BShillington said:
Hey db, I looked into your lec 315 and wasn't really impressed by the specs. Not trying to insult you or anything, just pointing it out.

I looked up the CMH bulb the lec 315 uses - CDM-T Elite 315/930/U/E Agro Lamp - you mainly want to look at Photosynthetic Photon Flux or PPF for efficiency since that's what plants absorb most.

DE - http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/lamps/high-intensity-discharge-lamps/hid-horticulture/horti/928196305116_EU/product

CMH - http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/lamps/compact-high-intensity-discharge/mastercolour-cdm/mastercolor-cdm-t-elite-med-wattage-agro/928601172201_NA/product

The CMH bulb puts out 1.9 umol/s compared to the DE's 2,100 umol/s

The 600/750 DE's put out ~1500 umol/s

At first I thought that was a typo but that's what Phillips says...
Click to expand...

I've never seen these before. Do they run on a different kind of ballast?
 
B

BShillington

Member
JSB99 said:
I've never seen these before. Do they run on a different kind of ballast?
Click to expand...
I've made posts requesting more information on DE bulb compatibility but so far no answers at least on rollitup.

So far based on research from various sites, the confirmed ballasts that work are Gavita Pro Remote[best efficiency](240v only; the new e-series fixtures are 120/240v but I want an air cooled hood so that's a no go), Galaxy Select-a-watt and Lumatek non air-cooled.

However, I suspect any high frequency e-ballast will do and you can get those for ~100-140$ either off eBay or shipped straight from China off alibaba.com though that takes more time and a little bit of social engineering.

**You can skip the next paragraph if you don't care about the ballast import business**

Alibaba.com is where resellers go to buy stock (Solis-tek, Galaxy, Lumatek, Apollo, pretty much every major ballast brand is just rebranding Chinese made ballasts) in the hundreds/thousands to be shipped by ship in cargo containers. However, you can request a "sample" of a few ballasts which I'm in the process of doing and they'll sell it a few dollars above bulk pricing by DHL overseas. Shipping is quite expensive but still cheaper than buying rebranded shit for double the price in markup. The FOB (bulk price sent to a ship) price for these ballasts typically range from 60-105$, and then they get marked up to $100-300.

Solis-tek is actually just a front owned by a Chinese manufacturer for example and outside of NA their ballasts sell for $95 for 1000W compared to ~200-300 over here under the name Helius. Galaxy also sources some of their ballasts from the same company Solis-tek operates from - namely Jayo Technology.

http://tinajayotech.en.ec21.com/1000W_Electronic_Ballast--9223328_9223329.html

**TL;DR ends here**

The main difference is the plug type - DE bulbs have a spring mechanism where you place the bulb in and slide two springs on either side to secure it instead of screwing it in. That means you can't use conventional HID/MH bulbs in a DE reflector though the plugs between the ballast and reflector are pretty universal.

The only non-compatible ballasts I know of are most likely magnetic low frequency ones and some older e-ballasts though they're pretty rare. From what I can tell, the newer "DE compatible" ballasts are just a label slapped on by resellers to make some extra dough off the new DE craze since they're more efficient.
 
Last edited:
dbkick

dbkick

Well-Known Member
BShillington said:
I've made posts requesting more information on DE bulb compatibility but so far no answers at least on rollitup.

So far based on research from various sites, the confirmed ballasts that work are Gavita Pro Remote[best efficiency](240v only; the new e-series fixtures are 120/240v but I want an air cooled hood so that's a no go), Galaxy Select-a-watt and Lumatek non air-cooled.

However, I suspect any high frequency e-ballast will do and you can get those for ~100-140$ either off eBay or shipped straight from China off alibaba.com though that takes more time and a little bit of social engineering.

**You can skip the next paragraph if you don't care about the ballast import business**

Alibaba.com is where resellers go to buy stock (Solis-tek, Galaxy, Lumatek, Apollo, pretty much every major ballast brand is just rebranding Chinese made ballasts) in the hundreds/thousands to be shipped by ship in cargo containers. However, you can request a "sample" of a few ballasts which I'm in the process of doing and they'll sell it a few dollars above bulk pricing by DHL overseas. Shipping is quite expensive but still cheaper than buying rebranded shit for double the price in markup. The FOB (bulk price sent to a ship) price for these ballasts typically range from 60-105$, and then they get marked up to $100-300.

Solis-tek is actually just a front owned by a Chinese manufacturer for example and outside of NA their ballasts sell for $95 for 1000W compared to ~200-300 over here under the name Helius. Galaxy also sources some of their ballasts from the same company Solis-tek operates from - namely Jayo Technology.

http://tinajayotech.en.ec21.com/1000W_Electronic_Ballast--9223328_9223329.html

**TL;DR ends here**

The main difference is the plug type - DE bulbs have a spring mechanism where you place the bulb in and slide two springs on either side to secure it instead of screwing it in. That means you can't use conventional HID/MH bulbs in a DE reflector though the plugs between the ballast and reflector are pretty universal.

The only non-compatible ballasts I know of are most likely magnetic low frequency ones and some older e-ballasts though they're pretty rare. From what I can tell, the newer "DE compatible" ballasts are just a label slapped on by resellers to make some extra dough off the new DE craze since they're more efficient.
Click to expand...
Can you verify that while I go shopping??
Got to get this ice box up!
 
JSB99

JSB99

Well-Known Member
So, what of the comment earlier about them running much hotter. Is that true on both, one, or neither?

Thanks for the background on the ballasts. I figured they were all Chinese but I didn't know they were just rebranded. So an Apollo would be the same as a Quantum pretty much?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top