V series "Tetras"
- Thread starter stardustsailor
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AquariusPanta
Well-Known Member
Woahhh, picture rampage!
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edit: o nvm, new page (3)
One of the sources explaining EMI did mention a little about electrical storms. Am I thinking along the right lines when I assume that the EMI filter somehow protects some part of the string with storms?
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
...I think only a "surge protection circuit ** " can save a led grow light from this "duo" in the above pic ...
**
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Lol, maybe a direct hit.
My point is unexpected voltage surges around 5kV are not impossible on a noisy grid. A big series inductor will smooth out the transient's energy, lowering the peak voltage. Inductors resist sudden changes in current the same way mass resists changes in speed.
My point is unexpected voltage surges around 5kV are not impossible on a noisy grid. A big series inductor will smooth out the transient's energy, lowering the peak voltage. Inductors resist sudden changes in current the same way mass resists changes in speed.
I think only a "surge protection circuit ** " can save a led grow light from this "duo" in the above pic ...
**
View attachment 3355866
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
https://www.rollitup.org/t/should-more-attention-be-paid-to-quality-drivers.826801/#post-10476388Yeah, a silly question of me right? I suppose I should have been a little more specific with the question.
Watch The Lion King much?
@stardustsailor
While I know a little about EMI from wikipedia and other sources, I don't even know if it exists at the level of operation that we, growers, work at. Well it probably does but without concern.
Is it noise? Is it something that affects the longevity of the of circuitry that exists between the COB all the way through the driver? Have you seen EMI show itself as an issue with past COB related projects?
I'm not an electrical engineer yet (although may never happen to be one; we'll see in the coming months as the semester pans out) so my understanding of these things is negligible.
AquariusPanta
Well-Known Member
I'm not entirely certain on what the red print implies. Care to digest, regurgitate, and feed me the point?
So from the link you shared, which digs right into this subject (thank you for digging it up, I would have never known to look for it), I learned that electric companies can trace different frequencies used/operated by various household products, such as our beloved COB fixtures.
Also, that the EMI is known to degrade our components, such as COBs, PSUs, and drivers.
But you made a point or two about how quality products sometimes have filters or protective parts included in them that maybe prevent too much dirty electricity to take place?
This URL/study helped a little bit on my understanding of the subject.
With everything else covered and with what you know about EMI, would you buy a branded LED/COB fixture that didn't come equipped with an EMI filter on the AC socket?
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
In simple words it means that ,the built in EMI filters of the driver will suffice when the driver is operated as is .I'm not entirely certain on what the red print implies. Care to digest, regurgitate, and feed me the point?
So from the link you shared, which digs right into this subject (thank you for digging it up, I would have never known to look for it), I learned that electric companies can trace different frequencies used/operated by various household products, such as our beloved COB fixtures.
Also, that the EMI is known to degrade our components, such as COBs, PSUs, and drivers.
But you made a point or two about how quality products sometimes have filters or protective parts included in them that maybe prevent too much dirty electricity to take place?
This URL/study helped a little bit on my understanding of the subject.
With everything else covered and with what you know about EMI, would you buy a branded LED/COB fixture that didn't come equipped with an EMI filter on the AC socket?
If the driver is encased in a metal case (thus earthed/grounded to it also ) and wiring is added and/or other electronic equipment is powered by the same AC line that powers the driver ,then the built in EMI filters of the driver may be not enough to block incoming /outgoing EMI .
Thus extra actions should be taken to minimise any EMI.Like this additional EMI IEC AC socket filter,always used..
(Grounded stainless steel housing ,6 A max. )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_compatibility
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_EMC_directives
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_EN_61000-3-2
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AquariusPanta
Well-Known Member
Thank you Sailor, the information tasted superb! (nom nom nom)
Who's winning in the war for the body this morning?
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
I think both myself and the virus got tired from fighting ..
We made a truce..for a day ...Or so...
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
May the Vero ,be with ya ..
Cheers.
Cheers.
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
Hey SDS!
Can you add some pictures of the complete inside-installation? I mean from the finished lamp with installed drivers and fans, only back side away??
I really like your work, especially the casing.
I'm planning on a 6x Vero18/4k(vegi) with 3-4x Vero29/3k(added in flowering) lighting for a 4ft wide x 2.3ft deep x 5,4ft high tent build-in in a 5,5ft wide, 6,2ft high and deep 2,6ft stealthbox, with additional space for a few bonsai mothers and her kiddies.
Till now I have build two 80cm long bars à 3 Vero18 and the next will be a 90cm bar with 3 or better 4 of the new Vero29. The Vero18 will run with the rated power from 1050mA/31w(Ø39% eff.) and the Vero29 should running at 1,4A/53w(Ø42% eff.).
I'm waiting for the new Vero29s/130lm/w that should arrive to digikey in mid april.
I love your casing because my build looks really poor compared to yours.
Till now only 2 aluminium profiles and the 3 Arctics between it and fixed with a few cable ties,Lol!
But I have enough time(mid april) to build a new construction and at the time I'm looking for some good inspirations for casings.
Can you add some pictures of the complete inside-installation? I mean from the finished lamp with installed drivers and fans, only back side away??
I really like your work, especially the casing.
I'm planning on a 6x Vero18/4k(vegi) with 3-4x Vero29/3k(added in flowering) lighting for a 4ft wide x 2.3ft deep x 5,4ft high tent build-in in a 5,5ft wide, 6,2ft high and deep 2,6ft stealthbox, with additional space for a few bonsai mothers and her kiddies.
Till now I have build two 80cm long bars à 3 Vero18 and the next will be a 90cm bar with 3 or better 4 of the new Vero29. The Vero18 will run with the rated power from 1050mA/31w(Ø39% eff.) and the Vero29 should running at 1,4A/53w(Ø42% eff.).
I'm waiting for the new Vero29s/130lm/w that should arrive to digikey in mid april.
I love your casing because my build looks really poor compared to yours.
Till now only 2 aluminium profiles and the 3 Arctics between it and fixed with a few cable ties,Lol!
But I have enough time(mid april) to build a new construction and at the time I'm looking for some good inspirations for casings.
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Hey,Randomblame ...
Unfortunately ,the light is completed and removing the backside lid will take some time and some effort to put back in place ...
And both time and effort are quite valuable for me right now ,
due to lots of work ...
(Plenty of happy customers ,bring back loads of new customers .
The best advertisement of my job,ever .. ..)
....
Still this particular fixture ,most probably it will stay with me ,
as I've incorrectly placed the drivers (not in symmetry )
I can not sell this fixture ,even if it is not such big "defect" it is bearing ...
So that one is a keepers I guess ...By higher "perfectionism" force applied ..
Anyway ..Pics ..
(Through a welder's mask glass )
.....
And probably it was about time ,for me ,to keep one of my builds..
Please ,meet the little monster I've been using -mainly- up till now for my personal growing ..
(What a shame SDS! tsk-tsk-tsk ...
...)
Not to mention ,that I can't stand anymore ,electrocuting myself by accidently coming to "close encounters" with this little monster ..Enough is enough !
Cheers.
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AquariusPanta
Well-Known Member
By far one of the coolest photos of COBS in action that I've ever seen (COBS under the welder's glass).
So the fixture just had a little bit of a lean to it or?
So the fixture just had a little bit of a lean to it or?
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
No lean sideways at all ...
No lean backwards or forwards ,at all ...
It's just my brain that can't stand the sight of non-symmetrically placed drivers ..
My brains have -plenty of - a lean ,I guess ..LOL!
Cheers!
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
And some quick notes & observations ,
regarding the spectrum of emitted light from Vero 29 versus CXA 3070,
both @ 3000K 80Ra .
.................................................................
1) The PPF percent distribution of the two COBs,for the range 380-780 nm is as follows
( BL 380-499 nm - GR 500-599 nm - R 600-699 nm -FR 700-780 nm ) :
Vero 29 3K80Ra : 10.67% - 40.73% - 44.04% - 4.57% LER: 320-322 ( typ:321 )
CXA3070 3K80Ra :10.62% - 41.37% - 43.71% - 4.3% LER: 324-326 ( typ:325 )
And their PPF spectral distribution graph in comparison (Both @ 2200 mA & Tc=50C ).
The differences seem rather minuscule..Ain't so ?
Well ...
Those of you that have both of these COBs try a small test ...
Illuminate firstly a mj plant with one of the two COBs.
Try to record in your mind ,the actual green shade of the leaves reaching your eyes ...
Then illuminate the same plant with the other COB ..
What do you see ?
The difference of the green hue from the leaves is not minuscule,but rather great ,this time ....
(Under the CXA3070 the photosynthesizing leaf tissue has a yellowish-lime green hue,
while under the Vero 29 the same photosynthesizing leaf tissue has a dark green -purplish hue ! )
What assumptions we can make out of that ?
Well ...For starters ,the photosynthesizing leaf tissue is NOT GREEN ,actually ...
It's just the fact that our vision that " translates" the reflected light into "green " ....
Human vision ,in well lit situations ,is most sensitive to green 555 nm light (Photopic )
But human vision can not perceive as "light" E/M radiation over ~780 nm ..
(Although some people are able to see up to ~800 nm )
But what wls plants do reflect actually ?
Well ..Let's see our beloved plant...
(Vegetative Growth phase )
(checkout the green curve :Leaf Lamina Absorptance - of alive tissue and not some kind of diluted Chlorophyll )
15 % reflection of green ....Actually peaking close to..555 nm !!!
Still over 50% reflection is taking place over ~740 nm ...
So ,actually photosynthesizing leaf tissue ,would had a rather brownish /reddish hue,
if only ,we humans could perceive the NIR /FR E/M radiation as light being able to see the " whole picture".
But we can't ...
So ,due to limited range of E/M radiation perceived as light by human vision and
due to it's high sensitivity to green light ,plants seem to be green ..
Well..They are not green .
So next time one will say to you that green light is reflected and not absorbed ,
just laugh . It's a good ol' joke !
2) Both of these COBs can be used for vegging with great results .
Just do not place them near the plant tops,'cause your plant(s) will stay extremely compact (short ) ...
And that will have a negative impact on yield ..(Trust me,on that one ) .
Later in flowering ,COBs and plant(s) can have a smaller distance between them .
No need for extra monochromatic LEDs .Just give raw power (more COBs ) if you want bigger yields.
Nothing more is needed .
Cheers.
regarding the spectrum of emitted light from Vero 29 versus CXA 3070,
both @ 3000K 80Ra .
.................................................................
1) The PPF percent distribution of the two COBs,for the range 380-780 nm is as follows
( BL 380-499 nm - GR 500-599 nm - R 600-699 nm -FR 700-780 nm ) :
Vero 29 3K80Ra : 10.67% - 40.73% - 44.04% - 4.57% LER: 320-322 ( typ:321 )
CXA3070 3K80Ra :10.62% - 41.37% - 43.71% - 4.3% LER: 324-326 ( typ:325 )
And their PPF spectral distribution graph in comparison (Both @ 2200 mA & Tc=50C ).
The differences seem rather minuscule..Ain't so ?
Well ...
Those of you that have both of these COBs try a small test ...
Illuminate firstly a mj plant with one of the two COBs.
Try to record in your mind ,the actual green shade of the leaves reaching your eyes ...
Then illuminate the same plant with the other COB ..
What do you see ?
The difference of the green hue from the leaves is not minuscule,but rather great ,this time ....
(Under the CXA3070 the photosynthesizing leaf tissue has a yellowish-lime green hue,
while under the Vero 29 the same photosynthesizing leaf tissue has a dark green -purplish hue ! )
What assumptions we can make out of that ?
Well ...For starters ,the photosynthesizing leaf tissue is NOT GREEN ,actually ...
It's just the fact that our vision that " translates" the reflected light into "green " ....
Human vision ,in well lit situations ,is most sensitive to green 555 nm light (Photopic )
But human vision can not perceive as "light" E/M radiation over ~780 nm ..
(Although some people are able to see up to ~800 nm )
But what wls plants do reflect actually ?
Well ..Let's see our beloved plant...
(Vegetative Growth phase )
(checkout the green curve :Leaf Lamina Absorptance - of alive tissue and not some kind of diluted Chlorophyll )
15 % reflection of green ....Actually peaking close to..555 nm !!!
Still over 50% reflection is taking place over ~740 nm ...
So ,actually photosynthesizing leaf tissue ,would had a rather brownish /reddish hue,
if only ,we humans could perceive the NIR /FR E/M radiation as light being able to see the " whole picture".
But we can't ...
So ,due to limited range of E/M radiation perceived as light by human vision and
due to it's high sensitivity to green light ,plants seem to be green ..
Well..They are not green .
So next time one will say to you that green light is reflected and not absorbed ,
just laugh . It's a good ol' joke !
2) Both of these COBs can be used for vegging with great results .
Just do not place them near the plant tops,'cause your plant(s) will stay extremely compact (short ) ...
And that will have a negative impact on yield ..(Trust me,on that one ) .
Later in flowering ,COBs and plant(s) can have a smaller distance between them .
No need for extra monochromatic LEDs .Just give raw power (more COBs ) if you want bigger yields.
Nothing more is needed .
Cheers.
Last edited:
bicit
Well-Known Member
Do you have any citations for this? I would love to know how this was all derived. I still have much to learnAnd some quick notes & observations ,
regarding the spectrum of emitted light from Vero 29 versus CXA 3070,
both @ 3000K 80Ra .
.................................................................
1) The PPF percent distribution of the two COBs,for the range 380-780 nm is as follows
( BL 380-499 nm - GR 500-599 nm - R 600-699 nm -FR 700-780 nm ) :
Vero 29 3K80Ra : 10.67% - 40.73% - 44.04% - 4.57% LER: 320-322 ( typ:321 )
CXA3070 3K80Ra :10.62% - 41.37% - 43.71% - 4.3% LER: 324-326 ( typ:325 )
And their PPF spectral distribution graph in comparison (Both @ 2200 mA & Tc=50C ).
View attachment 3374197
The differences seem rather minuscule..Ain't so ?
Well ...
Those of you that have both of these COBs try a small test ...
Illuminate firstly a mj plant with one of the two COBs.
Try to record in your mind ,the actual green shade of the leaves reaching your eyes ...
Then illuminate the same plant with the other COB ..
What do you see ?
The difference of the green hue from the leaves is not minuscule,but rather great ,this time ....
(Under the CXA3070 the photosynthesizing leaf tissue has a yellowish-lime green hue,
while under the Vero 29 the same photosynthesizing leaf tissue has a dark green -purplish hue ! )
What assumptions we can make out of that ?
Well ...For starters ,the photosynthesizing leaf tissue is NOT GREEN ,actually ...
It's just the fact that our vision that " translates" the reflected light into "green " ....
Human vision ,in well lit situations ,is most sensitive to green 555 nm light (Photopic )
But human vision can not perceive as "light" E/M radiation over ~780 nm ..
(Although some people are able to see up to ~800 nm )
But what wls plants do reflect actually ?
Well ..Let's see our beloved plant...
View attachment 3374212
(Vegetative Growth phase )
View attachment 3374209
(checkout the green curve :Leaf Lamina Absorptance - of alive tissue and not some kind of diluted Chlorophyll )
15 % reflection of green ....Actually peaking close to..555 nm !!!
Still over 50% reflection is taking place over ~740 nm ...
So ,actually photosynthesizing leaf tissue ,would had a rather brownish /reddish hue,
if only ,we humans could perceive the NIR /FR E/M radiation as light and be ablke to see the " whole picture".
But we can't ...
So ,due to limited range of E/M radiation perceived as light by human vision and
due to it's high sensitivity to green light ,plants seem to be green ..
Well..They are not green .
So next time one will say to you that green light is reflected and not absorbed ,
just laugh . It's a good ol' joke !
2) Both of these COBs can be used for vegging with great results .
Just do not place them near the plant tops,'cause your plant(s) will stay extremely compact (short ) ...
And that will have a negative impact on yield ..(Trust me,on that one ) .
Later in flowering ,COBs and plant(s) can have a smaller distance between them .
No need for extra monochromatic LEDs .Just give raw power (more COBs ) if you want bigger yields.
Nothing more is needed .
Cheers.
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
Do you have any citations for this? I would love to know how this was all derived. I still have much to learn
+1
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
@sds!
Great pictures and a lot of usefull input! Many thanks, thats all I wanna see!
Can not see any unsymetrics, so I would buy immediately, Lol!
With the gas-mask trick it is really easy to check for dead led's!
Your little monster comes a bit more close to what I have build till now but I'm thinking to build a new really big 90x 50x 10cm housing. Maybe with some L-profiles for the frame and for the casing a nice water resistant wood like larch!(I'm carpenter) (Wood does not conduct electricity, so no electronic shocks, Lol!)
Unfortunately there is no efficient driver for 4 Vero29 in series and I'm looking now for two good suitable drivers for 2 Vero29 @ 1400-1500mA, maybe with the same dimming poti(50%) like the hlg series. Which driver modell are you using in your tetras casing (1530mA, open frame) for the Vero29?
PS. My first poor try below!
Great pictures and a lot of usefull input! Many thanks, thats all I wanna see!
Can not see any unsymetrics, so I would buy immediately, Lol!
With the gas-mask trick it is really easy to check for dead led's!
Your little monster comes a bit more close to what I have build till now but I'm thinking to build a new really big 90x 50x 10cm housing. Maybe with some L-profiles for the frame and for the casing a nice water resistant wood like larch!(I'm carpenter) (Wood does not conduct electricity, so no electronic shocks, Lol!
)Unfortunately there is no efficient driver for 4 Vero29 in series and I'm looking now for two good suitable drivers for 2 Vero29 @ 1400-1500mA, maybe with the same dimming poti(50%) like the hlg series. Which driver modell are you using in your tetras casing (1530mA, open frame) for the Vero29?
PS. My first poor try below!
Attachments
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Just note down the things you would like citations for ...Do you have any citations for this? I would love to know how this was all derived. I still have much to learn
Easier for me to answer ..
Cheers.
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
That is the main purpose I use it for.To check for possible dead diodes..
Meanwell HLP-60H-42
http://www.meanwell.com/search/HLP-60H/default.htm
If that's your first build ,I can easily foretell a bright future for you ..
Great job done there.
Congrats!
Cheers.