IF you are new to LED and want help choosing what to buy, POST HERE!

[testiclees]

No. If it's too close, the radiant power will fry the canopy, good circulation or not. I've had vero 29 turn tops black at only 1.4A getting within 6 inches. The light is very powerful, and can actually burn your house down if you point it at the floor or a wall point blank. (point blank is some serious radiant heat)

I also have charred circles on my wood floor from vero 18 at only 500mA just from a panel sitting on the floor on for only 30 seconds.

 

[stardustsailor]

No. If it's too close, the radiant power will fry the canopy, good circulation or not. I've had vero 29 turn tops black at only 1.4A getting within 6 inches. The light is very powerful, and can actually burn your house down if you point it at the floor or a wall point blank. (point blank is some serious radiant heat)

I also have charred circles on my wood floor from vero 18 at only 500mA just from a panel sitting on the floor on for only 30 seconds.

I agree on that one ..
But hey Churcy ,brother don't you think 6 inches (~15 cm ) is too close to the plants for a Vero 29 @1.,4 A ?

The VERO 29 boasts 156 blue diodes underneath it's LES .
At 2200 mA and about 40 cm away from plant tops ,it does not seem to have any burning or bleaching effects..
But then again ,40 cm is about a foot and 4 inches distance ( 16" ) ...

And yes ,point blank the amount of photons emitted can generate serious amounts of heat ,
when absorbed by certain materials ...
Very powerful COB ...LIke the CXA-CXB 3590 ..
Afterall ,they belong to the same "category " ..


Cheers.

 

[testiclees]

No. If it's too close, the radiant power will fry the canopy, good circulation or not. I've had vero 29 turn tops black at only 1.4A getting within 6 inches. The light is very powerful, and can actually burn your house down if you point it at the floor or a wall point blank. (point blank is some serious radiant heat)

I also have charred circles on my wood floor from vero 18 at only 500mA just from a panel sitting on the floor on for only 30 seconds.

Thanks again. Would 20" be a safe bet w/o losing par? Is it trial and error to identify a sweetspot?

 

[Doer]

11 23rd

i didnt ask. You volunteered those incorrect calculations.
Bro think before getting snappy with me.

For the love of Cree! You have never seen snappy I guess. The smiley means nothing.
You didn't provide a proper unit spec remember? So, I didn't volunteer. Cirminy Cree.

 

[Doer]

I agree on that one ..
But hey Churcy ,brother don't you think 6 inches (~15 cm ) is too close to the plants for a Vero 29 @1.,4 A ?

The VERO 29 boasts 156 blue diodes underneath it's LES .
At 2200 mA and about 40 cm away from plant tops ,it does not seem to have any burning or bleaching effects..
But then again ,40 cm is about a foot and 4 inches distance ( 16" ) ...

And yes ,point blank the amount of photons emitted can generate serious amounts of heat ,
when absorbed by certain materials ...
Very powerful COB ...LIke the CXA-CXB 3590 ..
Afterall ,they belong to the same "category " ..


Cheers.

I volunteered? Nope. I hazarded to look up what he didn't provide.

 

[Doer]

Baloney
-------------------------------------------------------
The optic vero 29 360 is a 'factory' built lamp. You can find the product performance details on optic veros page.

If you get a chance to review those values please post back with your impressions.
---------------------------------------------------
I try and you didn't even bother to post a link. I try. Then you think it is prove or disprove?????
Then when I as a question in a normal tone, why did you ask? What do you want?

That's snappy? Wrong, and rong.

 

[Doer]

I agree with the trolls. This is stupid.

 

[p4id]

For the love of COB Doer, give it up, this thread is pretty informative, and doesn't need derailing.

 

[Doer]

What am I do but re-railing this thread. No one but me and Star has lifted a finger to help.

Now you are just being stupid too. WHY? Who has done anything today but bitch?

Star for sure. Me. Green, maybe a few others. That's it. And an assortment of trolls went ballistic over a few Cree jokes. What the hell is wrong with you guys?

 

[Doer]

I agree on that one ..
But hey Churcy ,brother don't you think 6 inches (~15 cm ) is too close to the plants for a Vero 29 @1.,4 A ?

The VERO 29 boasts 156 blue diodes underneath it's LES .
At 2200 mA and about 40 cm away from plant tops ,it does not seem to have any burning or bleaching effects..
But then again ,40 cm is about a foot and 4 inches distance ( 16" ) ...

And yes ,point blank the amount of photons emitted can generate serious amounts of heat ,
when absorbed by certain materials ...
Very powerful COB ...LIke the CXA-CXB 3590 ..
Afterall ,they belong to the same "category " ..


Cheers.

Yep, it's is all absorbed or reflected. Absorbed is heat.

 

[tstick]

Depends on the company. Most epi-whatever fixtures are sold on Amazon, eBay and AliExpress. Those companies may not be viable in 2 years. They usually aren't on-shore. They usually require you to send the light back to China. They know that's not feasible, it's just their opening salvo in negotiating a "settlement." They'll offer you $20 and you keep the light.

The high-end epi-whatever brands like Platinum, Kind, Lush, HydroGrowLED, et. al. may provide better support. But, at the price they charge, why not buy something that has less mystery and hype? Something that's more of a long-term investment instead of a throwaway?

It seems like people new to LED don't quantify why they are considering LED. If it's to reduce energy consumption and cooling costs, you have to pay $3-$5 per watt. If it's not for those purposes, there's no reason paying $1 per watt for Chinese epi-whatever when you can get more light for the same money from ceramic metal halide. (Which means there's no reason to buy high-end epi-whatever "mystery" brands. Those brands are simply predatory. They're not the best value for the dollar. And, the discount direct-from-China fixtures are barely valuable when you compare them to CMH.).

As XML diodes and higher-end COBs find their way into fixtures (and lower-end fixtures step up to remain competitive) this will be less of an issue. But, for now, you should be looking at efficient LED like A51, or Phillips agro CMH.

What about Amare? They are a new company that wants to compete in the market. They use Epistar on their base modes. They offer a Cree option on their lights, too. 5 year warranty bumper-to-bumper. Modular design that allows users to replace parts themselves. I have read so many bad criticisms of Epistar, but if the company is ready to back them for a 5year warranty…..hmmm….

 

[alesh]

Just out of curiosity, why does Epistar get criticism? It seems Cree is a much more popular name and if a light uses Cree diodes then they are almost always more expensive…But I use some of the Cree lightbulbs and a few of them were faulty. Also, the Cree bulbs were the least expensive of all the LED lightbulbs. Cree are expensive diodes when it comes to LED grow lights, but they are inexpensive diodes when it comes to LED bulbs.

Which brings me to my second inquiry...

Will someone explain more about what Top Bin means and how do you know if your light is equipped with Top Bin diodes or not? Is there a pedestrian way to check? Is there something visibly apparent to look for? Do Cree lightbulbs use something other than "Top Bin" diodes?

Is a Top Bin Epistar better than a lesser-quality Cree?

If a company uses Epistar diodes, but backs them with a great warranty, wouldn't that be an assurance of quality?



Thanks

1) Cree chips are significantly more efficient that Epistars.
2) Cree has much much better packaging and their LEDs run a lot of cooler and much more reliable. Epistar just makes LED dies and packaging is done by no-name factories.

 

[tstick]

How can a pedestrian tell if they have a Top Bin diode or not?

I have read that Apache Tech uses Nichia diodes. They are the only company I know of that uses those. Can anyone tell me about Nichia?

 

[Greengenes707]

For those who like correct, well based, and experienced information...
https://www.rollitup.org/t/commercial-cob-lamp-optic-vero-29.852837/
https://www.rollitup.org/t/optic-lighting-vero-cobs-updated.860452/

What about Amare? They are a new company that wants to compete in the market. They use Epistar on their base modes. They offer a Cree option on their lights, too. 5 year warranty bumper-to-bumper. Modular design that allows users to replace parts themselves. I have read so many bad criticisms of Epistar, but if the company is ready to back them for a 5year warranty…..hmmm….

Their warranty, or anyone else for that matter, has nothing to do with the quality or output(what your plants use) of the unit or it's components. All it means is if it breaks...they will cover fixing it.
If a light breaks 4 times in a year and they replace it every time within a week...
Great service and warranty...
But does not change the shitty product to begin with. That is nothing towards amare specifically...just the truth of what a warranty is in this industry.
Nor would they offer a cree model at an upcharge if epi was the same.
No matter what the warranty is or says...they can not magically make up for the potential 50%-75% output loss from cheap encapsulated diodes vs the best in the game.

 

[az2000]

What about Amare? ... I have read so many bad criticisms of Epistar, but if the company is ready to back them for a 5year warranty…..hmmm….

How long as Amare been in business? From what I recall, their web site's only been online for 2-3 months. (It's easy to start web site and offer a long warranty. Staying in business and delivering that warranty is something else.).

They don't even publish their prices. You have to contact them for the hard sell.

Why are you attracted to stuff like this? What is attractive about Epistar and giving your contact info to a company who isn't transparent enough to simply publish their prices? When faced with that or Cree and a low-friction "buy now" button, I don't know why you would get stuck on thoughts like "I don't know, I'm thinking Epistar might be good even though nobody wants to admit to using it. And, I'm positive this won't be the hard sell. They're probably *lonely*, that's why they want to talk to me about prices!"

 

[Positivity]

Thanks P, very optimistic. My experience with Mars was very satisfactory until it smoked up. I grew a few primo+ ladies with it. Never had bleaching @~24" . I had some decent aroma during flowering. The cured product wasnt hayish but it wasnt really fine either.

What characteristics of vero 29s make for better fragrance and eliminate bleaching issues?

I say that because i use the same nutrients now as pre white heavy spectrums including hps.

With hps, i think the radiant heat led to loss of terpenes mostly. Although i did grow some fire with it when i controlled the heat well enough. Air conditioned intake and a aircooled sunsystem 600w with a hortilux.

With cobs and the ability to run cool, plus the nice full spectrum when compared to most other light sources, really allows plants to hit a higher potential i think.

I've let go nice strains i'm sure because i thought the strain was the problem. Since warm white cobs, strains are matching the description. Albeit, the sun still has a considerable edge in highest quality possible. I once said the cob herb was better...but after a bit longer time using them, the outdoor herb cures out much better. Theres a different resin profile, more complex. Which is why i've been leaving room for monos and a little experimentation.

The initial optic offering i think was running too hot to be a enjoyable light. But, since there are using actual led coolers now it should be a solid light.

The bleaching i used to see with red/blue heavy monos was simply too much of one color and not enough of others..

The only time i've seen bleached plants with cobs was when i ran a cxa 3590 at 50w within inches...

 

[tstick]

How long as Amare been in business? From what I recall, their web site's only been online for 2-3 months. (It's easy to start web site and offer a long warranty. Staying in business and delivering that warranty is something else.).

Fair enough point.

They don't even publish their prices. You have to contact them for the hard sell.

Why are you attracted to stuff like this? What is attractive about Epistar and giving your contact info to a company who isn't transparent enough to simply publish their prices? When faced with that or Cree and a low-friction "buy now" button, I don't know why you would get stuck on thoughts like "I don't know, I'm thinking Epistar might be good even though nobody wants to admit to using it. And, I'm positive this won't be the hard sell. They're probably *lonely*, that's why they want to talk to me about prices!"

I guess I don't analyze things as well as you. It's good to collect a consensus of opinions.

 

[testiclees]

What characteristics of vero 29s make for better fragrance and eliminate bleaching issues?

I say that because i use the same nutrients now as pre white heavy spectrums including hps.

With hps, i think the radiant heat led to loss of terpenes

mostly. Although i did grow some fire with it when i controlled the heat well enough. Air conditioned intake and a aircooled sunsystem 600w with a hortilux.

With cobs and the ability to run cool, plus the nice full spectrum when compared to most other light sources, really allows plants to hit a higher potential i think.

I've let go nice strains i'm sure because i thought the strain was the problem. Since warm white cobs, strains are matching the description. Albeit, the sun still has a considerable edge in highest quality possible. I once said the cob herb was better...but after a bit longer time using them, the outdoor herb cures out much better. Theres a different resin profile, more complex. Which is why i've been leaving room for monos and a little experimentation.

The initial optic offering i think was running too hot to be a enjoyable light. But, since there are using actual led coolers now it should be a solid light.

The bleaching i used to see with red/blue heavy monos was simply too much of one color and not enough of others..

The only time i've seen bleached plants with cobs was when i ran a cxa 3590 at 50w within inches...

Thanks man, very informative.

A couple strains that ive grown in the past will go directly under the vero optic light when it arrives. Ill take some photos to document how they adjust and respond to the new lighting.

I hadnt even heard of vero before last week.

 

[tstick]

Onyx Bloom (? wattage)

Vero 29 ( whatever model is around the ~200 watt range)

Apache Tech AT200

Which, of these three choices, would have the highest quality components/build quality?

Which is the most established company?

Which of these would be the best value?

 

[churchhaze]

I'm pretty sure the best value of those 3 choices in terms of $/PARW is the optic vero 29.

DIY with vero 29 will be even cheaper, and gives you the option to use more quantity of vero 29 at lower current. So you could make it yourself cheaper, or make it for the same price but better. (like most DIY)