Dark brown/orange spots

[PlantsAreNeat]

Hey guys, need a little help if I can. I will try to get some better pictures tomorrow as well. A little quick overview..

Strain is Blueberry OG and Northern Lights x Big Bug cross. Two different plants.

3 gallon smart pots filled with Fox Farms soil using distilled water with 1 tsp of cal/mag per gallon and Fox Farm trio of nutes including using the Sledgehammer flush. PH going into the soil is usually between 6.5-6.9.

30 days into flowering.

Lots of the fan leaves are getting speckled with what appears to be small brown or orange spots. Any ideas? I'll post more information as needed. Thanks for the help!

 

[ShLUbY]

what is your Ph coming out of the pot?? are you checking Ph your run off water if you aren't checking the actual Ph of the soil? When i had brown/orange spots around the veins of my leaves, my Ph of the soil was far too low, like 5.3. When i bought the bluelab Ph soil pen I started adding high quality dolomite lime to keep soil Ph around 6.5, the brown and orange spots went away. So either your soil Ph is too low (in which you can give them all the calcium you want, they wont be able to take it in), or you are deficient in Calcium (usually due to low Ph) which can lead to scorching/spotting on the leaves. So test that water run off (yes you want 25% run off when you water i.e. 2 gals go in, you want to see .5 gal come out). this helps prevent salt buildups and when you test Ph, and PPM, you get an idea of where you're at and you're not guessing wtf is going on.

You're right at the point in flower where the plant can become rootbound (ESPECIALLY if you did not transplant into a bigger pot a week or two prior to putting them into flower), and has actually eaten all the nutrients that your FFOF soil provides, including the loss of all lime that comes in the soil, which helps balance Ph. So you may need to topdress some dolomite lime if the Ph is too low. Also you should note that distilled water is a STRONG solvent, capable of dissolving lots of nutrients, and leaching them out in the run off! Hope this helps you out.

 

[hells canyon genetics]

Kinda looks like it could be early signs of root rot but real hard to tell with out clearer pics and more of them

 

[hells canyon genetics]

what is your Ph coming out of the pot?? are you checking Ph your run off water if you aren't checking the actual Ph of the soil? When i had brown/orange spots around the veins of my leaves, my Ph of the soil was far too low, like 5.3. When i bought the bluelab Ph soil pen I started adding high quality dolomite lime to keep soil Ph around 6.5, the brown and orange spots went away. So either your soil Ph is too low (in which you can give them all the calcium you want, they wont be able to take it in), or you are deficient in Calcium (usually due to low Ph) which can lead to scorching/spotting on the leaves. So test that water run off (yes you want 25% run off when you water i.e. 2 gals go in, you want to see .5 gal come out). this helps prevent salt buildups and when you test Ph, and PPM, you get an idea of where you're at and you're not guessing wtf is going on.

You're right at the point in flower where the plant can become rootbound (ESPECIALLY if you did not transplant into a bigger pot a week or to prior two putting them into flower), and has actually eaten all the nutrients that your FFOF soil provides, including the loss of all lime that comes in the soil, which helps balance Ph. So you may need to topdress some dolomite lime if the Ph is too low. Also you should note that distilled water is a STRONG solvent, capable of dissolving lots of nutrients, and leaching them out in the run off! Hope this helps you out.

How well do you like the BL soil pen

 

[PlantsAreNeat]

Thanks for the input guys, I will try to get some better pictures this afternoon and let you all take a look.

I have not been testing the PH of the runoff at all. I will start doing this moving forward.

As far as the root bound issue, and with the plants being halfway into flower now, is it too late to transfer the plants to a bigger size pot? I do have some bigger pots and more soil I could move them into for the remaining 30 days if that would help. Guess I worry about stressing them out but am open to any suggestions as the grow has been going wonderful up until now.

Thanks!

 

[ShLUbY]

How well do you like the BL soil pen

I love my BL soil Ph Pen. poke a hole, insert pen, read Ph, done. But checking the runoff of the water is effective tool as well. What people don't understand is that you can not water a higher Ph than your soil and expect it to come up, at least from my experience. The only way to improve the Ph was with dolomite lime or a similar product. something needs to buffer that shit!

@PlantsAreNeat having a root bound container is not the end of the world either. I actually prefer my plant to fill in the container heavily by about week 5 of flower. The benefit to having a pot full of roots is that you know the whole container is the root zone. Some people don't understand the root zone and knowing where you need to put the water and nutes. when you have a container that is too big and water it heavily, the plant cant transpire fast enough (or dry the pot fast enough), and what happens is it eats all the food by the roots (root zone) and then starves because you can't water and put more food into SOLUTION because the soil is still wet. Not to mention when one oversizes a plants container it's wasting water, soil, nutrients, resources which cost money. so if it takes 4-5 days to dry, thats 2-3 days too long. The more often you can water (by having the pot going dry faster) the more CEC takes place. CEC = cation exchange capacity, this is how plants take in nutrients from the growing medium. If you don't know what this is look it up, and if you need help having it explained shoot me a message.

So before you transplant wait for the pot to dry and water it, check the Ph before you water, and check the runoff. if it comes out 6.1 or less you need to get some dolomite lime, and topdress roughly 1.5 tablespoons into the top 2 inches of soil and then water it in your next water with Ph between 5.8 and 6.2. the lime will float your Ph to a stable 6.5 until its dissolved after so much time and watering. You dont even need to test, you can just add the lime anyway, it wont hurt a thing. actually if you buy a quality lime, it is derived of Calcium and Magnesium which is great for your plant. you may not even need to transplant if you can water daily or every other day when the pot starts going dry faster. just remember you have to use less nutrients than the bottle suggest, because those feeding suggestions are just that: suggestions. They don't know how often you water.

FWIW, when i take clones and they root, i put them in 3/4 gal containers for roughly 3-4 weeks which allows them to get a very nice healthy root ball. After that, i transplant them to their final home, a 4 gallon pot, which is just the right amount of space to veg for ~2 weeks so they can acclimate and get roots going, and then flip into flower worry free. by week 5 the containers are going dry every other day and i can feed my plant less nutrients but more often. this increases CEC big time. which i promise will lead to higher yeilds. I have many friends with 1000watt hps that can't put the numbers out that i do with my 600watt. 1000s are overrated, energy sucking, $ sucking shit. The sun hits the earth at 700watts per cubic meter, so why use a 1000 watts? sorry im just ranting now. let us know what happens with the runoff Ph when you get to it.

 

[PlantsAreNeat]

I love my BL soil Ph Pen. poke a hole, insert pen, read Ph, done. But checking the runoff of the water is effective tool as well. What people don't understand is that you can not water a higher Ph than your soil and expect it to come up, at least from my experience. The only way to improve the Ph was with dolomite lime or a similar product. something needs to buffer that shit!

@PlantsAreNeat having a root bound container is not the end of the world either. I actually prefer my plant to fill in the container heavily by about week 5 of flower. The benefit to having a pot full of roots is that you know the whole container is the root zone. Some people don't understand the root zone and knowing where you need to put the water and nutes. when you have a container that is too big and water it heavily, the plant cant transpire fast enough (or dry the pot fast enough), and what happens is it eats all the food by the roots (root zone) and then starves because you can't water and put more food into SOLUTION because the soil is still wet. Not to mention when one oversizes a plants container it's wasting water, soil, nutrients, resources which cost money. so if it takes 4-5 days to dry, thats 2-3 days too long. The more often you can water (by having the pot going dry faster) the more CEC takes place. CEC = cation exchange capacity, this is how plants take in nutrients from the growing medium. If you don't know what this is look it up, and if you need help having it explained shoot me a message.

So before you transplant wait for the pot to dry and water it, check the Ph before you water, and check the runoff. if it comes out 6.1 or less you need to get some dolomite lime, and topdress roughly 1.5 tablespoons into the top 2 inches of soil and then water it in your next water with Ph between 5.8 and 6.2. the lime will float your Ph to a stable 6.5 until its dissolved after so much time and watering. You dont even need to test, you can just add the lime anyway, it wont hurt a thing. actually if you buy a quality lime, it is derived of Calcium and Magnesium which is great for your plant. you may not even need to transplant if you can water daily or every other day when the pot starts going dry faster. just remember you have to use less nutrients than the bottle suggest, because those feeding suggestions are just that: suggestions. They don't know how often you water.

FWIW, when i take clones and they root, i put them in 3/4 gal containers for roughly 3-4 weeks which allows them to get a very nice healthy root ball. After that, i transplant them to their final home, a 4 gallon pot, which is just the right amount of space to veg for ~2 weeks so they can acclimate and get roots going, and then flip into flower worry free. by week 5 the containers are going dry every other day and i can feed my plant less nutrients but more often. this increases CEC big time. which i promise will lead to higher yeilds. I have many friends with 1000watt hps that can't put the numbers out that i do with my 600watt. 1000s are overrated, energy sucking, $ sucking shit. The sun hits the earth at 700watts per cubic meter, so why use a 1000 watts? sorry im just ranting now. let us know what happens with the runoff Ph when you get to it.

Wow, thank you for that very informative and well thought out post. Much appreciated.

When I get home from work today I will be watering. The plants tend to dry out in their smart pots after a full watering in no more than 2 days usually. I will test and check everything you mentioned and post some results. I will also post some better pictures. I am actually worried that it may be Nute burn since I am watering so often.

Thank you all for your help, we will chat soon with some new pics to show!

 

[PlantsAreNeat]

OK everyone here are some pics from this afternoon. I hope they show a little better the size of the plant and what is going on with some of the leaves. I went ahead and measured the PH and PPM of the water both before and runoff.

I will separate the three plants into three posts so it will be easier to comment on the state of each of them. If that even makes sense...baaaked. lulz

Blueberry OG:

Water before: 289 PPM & 6.6 PH
Runoff After: 240 PPM & 4.8 PH.

So yes, it looks like the PH is dropping by a considerable amount on the runoff.

 

[PlantsAreNeat]

Here is a good bagseed I had, no name:



As you can see this one seems to be doing just fine.

Water before: 427 PPM & 6.6 PH
Runoff after: 138 PPM & 5.4 PH

No spotting at all.

 

[PlantsAreNeat]

Here is the Northern Lights X Big Bud cross:



Some much more minor spotting on this one, but it is starting to appear nonetheless.

Water before: 251 PPM & 6.9 PH
Runoff after: 189 PPM & 5.5 PH

 

[PlantsAreNeat]

Is there anyone our there that thinks this could just be a Cal / Mag deficiency? I am giving 1 tsp of Cal / Mag per Gallon of distilled water, but maybe need to up that number??

 

[whitebb2727]

I love my BL soil Ph Pen. poke a hole, insert pen, read Ph, done. But checking the runoff of the water is effective tool as well. What people don't understand is that you can not water a higher Ph than your soil and expect it to come up, at least from my experience. The only way to improve the Ph was with dolomite lime or a similar product. something needs to buffer that shit!

@PlantsAreNeat having a root bound container is not the end of the world either. I actually prefer my plant to fill in the container heavily by about week 5 of flower. The benefit to having a pot full of roots is that you know the whole container is the root zone. Some people don't understand the root zone and knowing where you need to put the water and nutes. when you have a container that is too big and water it heavily, the plant cant transpire fast enough (or dry the pot fast enough), and what happens is it eats all the food by the roots (root zone) and then starves because you can't water and put more food into SOLUTION because the soil is still wet. Not to mention when one oversizes a plants container it's wasting water, soil, nutrients, resources which cost money. so if it takes 4-5 days to dry, thats 2-3 days too long. The more often you can water (by having the pot going dry faster) the more CEC takes place. CEC = cation exchange capacity, this is how plants take in nutrients from the growing medium. If you don't know what this is look it up, and if you need help having it explained shoot me a message.

So before you transplant wait for the pot to dry and water it, check the Ph before you water, and check the runoff. if it comes out 6.1 or less you need to get some dolomite lime, and topdress roughly 1.5 tablespoons into the top 2 inches of soil and then water it in your next water with Ph between 5.8 and 6.2. the lime will float your Ph to a stable 6.5 until its dissolved after so much time and watering. You dont even need to test, you can just add the lime anyway, it wont hurt a thing. actually if you buy a quality lime, it is derived of Calcium and Magnesium which is great for your plant. you may not even need to transplant if you can water daily or every other day when the pot starts going dry faster. just remember you have to use less nutrients than the bottle suggest, because those feeding suggestions are just that: suggestions. They don't know how often you water.

FWIW, when i take clones and they root, i put them in 3/4 gal containers for roughly 3-4 weeks which allows them to get a very nice healthy root ball. After that, i transplant them to their final home, a 4 gallon pot, which is just the right amount of space to veg for ~2 weeks so they can acclimate and get roots going, and then flip into flower worry free. by week 5 the containers are going dry every other day and i can feed my plant less nutrients but more often. this increases CEC big time. which i promise will lead to higher yeilds. I have many friends with 1000watt hps that can't put the numbers out that i do with my 600watt. 1000s are overrated, energy sucking, $ sucking shit. The sun hits the earth at 700watts per cubic meter, so why use a 1000 watts? sorry im just ranting now. let us know what happens with the runoff Ph when you get to it.

The run off ph is inaccurate way to test soil phone and will have you chasing your tail. Ph pens use an electrode to measure. Salts and various other things can cause run off ph to vary. A well built soil you need not worry about ph. If you are worried ph in is what to worry about.

 

[PlantsAreNeat]

The run off ph is inaccurate way to test soil phone and will have you chasing your tail. Ph pens use an electrode to measure. Salts and various other things can cause run off ph to vary. A well built soil you need not worry about ph. If you are worried ph in is what to worry about.

Well I usually just test the PH going in after I mix all the nutes in the water and adjust from there, but thought I would check both PPM and PH on the in and the out to see if that can tell anyone anything else to help me out.

 

[ShLUbY]

OK everyone here are some pics from this afternoon. I hope they show a little better the size of the plant and what is going on with some of the leaves. I went ahead and measured the PH and PPM of the water both before and runoff.

I will separate the three plants into three posts so it will be easier to comment on the state of each of them. If that even makes sense...baaaked. lulz

Blueberry OG: View attachment 3467628View attachment 3467629 View attachment 3467630 View attachment 3467632 View attachment 3467633

Water before: 289 PPM & 6.6 PH
Runoff After: 240 PPM & 4.8 PH.

So yes, it looks like the PH is dropping by a considerable amount on the runoff.

i would definitely add the dolomite lime to this one and be sure to get a very raw form of Dolomite lime (don't get the espoma shit, it sucks) There are other products to raise Ph, but this is the one I have been having good results with. I just solved this same problem myself with the spotting with that adjustment. I'm not saying that measuring Ph in the runoff is the best and most accurate way to do it, but that seems very low on that plant which was similar to what i was experiencing with my own. The great thing about the lime is it's a soil buffer for your Ph and composed of calcium and magnesium (great!), and most all the soil companies include this product in their mixes, sometimes it's just not enough because it dissolves (especially with distilled/RO water). If you look at Calciums Ph availability the closer you are to 6.5 the more available it is. the farther away you are the less available it becomes. So if your Ph is too far off, it doesn't matter how much of that CaMg product you feed the plant, it's simply LESS available for uptake. calcium is very important in maintaining healthy growth and development of cell walls, metabolic processes and fruit development (buds). Adding dolomite lime to your pot (topdress) you have nothing to lose, only to gain especially since it will balance the Ph of all your pots and they will all be closer to that desirable 6.5 (where calcium is most available) and then you can say ok, it's not my soil Ph that's off if the problem doesn't go away. try adding 1.5 tbsp mixed in to the top of the soil. the combination of dolomite and 1tsp/gal of a CaMg product should solve the calcium issue. and remember damaged leaves will never repair their appearance, once they get necrosis spots they don't go away. but you should see it stop from spreading to new growth.

here is a link to you exact issue. it should convince you of what to do here. http://www.growweedeasy.com/calcium-deficiency-cannabis

Here is a good bagseed I had, no name:

View attachment 3467988 View attachment 3467990 View attachment 3467991 View attachment 3467992

As you can see this one seems to be doing just fine.

Water before: 427 PPM & 6.6 PH
Runoff after: 138 PPM & 5.4 PH

No spotting at all.

I would be cutting all the nitrogen from this plant that you can. See how it's sort of clawing on the big leaves, and quite dark? You're giving her a little too much nitrogen, and assuming your bloom mix has some N value to it but it should be less value than the other numbers, P and K. Also to note, if your CaMg product has an N value to it... get one that has 0-0-0 NPK. you have other products that have nitrogen in them already i'm sure.

Other than that I'd say everything is looking pretty damn good! get some high quality dolomite lime in all the pots and you'll be happy you did it!

 

[PlantsAreNeat]

i would definitely add the dolomite lime to this one and be sure to get a very raw form of Dolomite lime (don't get the espoma shit, it sucks) There are other products to raise Ph, but this is the one I have been having good results with. I just solved this same problem myself with the spotting with that adjustment. I'm not saying that measuring Ph in the runoff is the best and most accurate way to do it, but that seems very low on that plant which was similar to what i was experiencing with my own. The great thing about the lime is it's a soil buffer for your Ph and composed of calcium and magnesium (great!), and most all the soil companies include this product in their mixes, sometimes it's just not enough because it dissolves (especially with distilled/RO water). If you look at Calciums Ph availability the closer you are to 6.5 the more available it is. the farther away you are the less available it becomes. So if your Ph is too far off, it doesn't matter how much of that CaMg product you feed the plant, it's simply LESS available for uptake. calcium is very important in maintaining healthy growth and development of cell walls, metabolic processes and fruit development (buds). Adding dolomite lime to your pot (topdress) you have nothing to lose, only to gain especially since it will balance the Ph of all your pots and they will all be closer to that desirable 6.5 (where calcium is most available) and then you can say ok, it's not my soil Ph that's off if the problem doesn't go away. try adding 1.5 tbsp mixed in to the top of the soil. the combination of dolomite and 1tsp/gal of a CaMg product should solve the calcium issue. and remember damaged leaves will never repair their appearance, once they get necrosis spots they don't go away. but you should see it stop from spreading to new growth.

here is a link to you exact issue. it should convince you of what to do here. http://www.growweedeasy.com/calcium-deficiency-cannabis



I would be cutting all the nitrogen from this plant that you can. See how it's sort of clawing on the big leaves, and quite dark? You're giving her a little too much nitrogen, and assuming your bloom mix has some N value to it but it should be less value than the other numbers, P and K. Also to note, if your CaMg product has an N value to it... get one that has 0-0-0 NPK. you have other products that have nitrogen in them already i'm sure.

Other than that I'd say everything is looking pretty damn good! get some high quality dolomite lime in all the pots and you'll be happy you did it!

Dude, awesome link to that article, that looks like exactly what I am dealing with, and some awesome all around advice in the rest of your post.

Do you have any recommendations on the dolomite to use? The only thing around me at like Home Depot or places like that is the Epsoma stuff. I do have Amazon Prime though lol and could probably get it very quick to the house if you or anyone else could recommend a very good one to use.

Thanks again for the help!!

 

[hempstead]

I agree with the low pH and not getting enough phosphorous.

 

[PlantsAreNeat]

So I got some high quality dolomite lime and some new Cal / Mag with zero nitrogen in it. Should be here within a few days, hope they don't get too much worse between now and then!

 

[ShLUbY]

nice man. just curious but what dolomite did you get? I use a brand called Done Organically that is made here in my home state of MI. Good luck with your future grows. You will notice that when you get your Ph balanced at 6.5 that your plants will be far more efficient in their nutrient uptake which may require you to use a little more or a little less when feeding. I try and feed low doses more often to improve the CEC, but even with low doses sometimes its just too much for them and plain water is needed. Other times when i skip the main feed (bloom or grow), instead of plain water i will still give CaMg and/or a Kelp product with < 1% of any NPK value.

 

[PlantsAreNeat]

This is the Dolomite Lime I ended up going with on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Dolomite-Magnesium-Greenway-Biotech-Inc/dp/B00OEEGCHS/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1438103990&sr=8-3&keywords=dolomite+lime

And I went with this as my new Cal / Mag : http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010LR5ZGU?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00

Hopefully it will do well. Thanks for all the help.

What kind of water do you use to water with? I was thinking about switching to tap water and just making sure to let it sit out for a good while before use.

 

[ShLUbY]

wow that lime is ultra fine! like rock dust almost (trace minerals: product like azomite, cascade, gaia glacial, etc...). be aware that an ultra pulverized product like that will likely dissolve faster than a more granulated product like I use, but that stuff will work great and get to work fast for you. I'm getting into the rock dust to start feeding the microbes in my soil. especially in my vegetable garden, trace minerals can lead to much more nutritious food.

I'm now on Reverse Osmosis, i just got it about 10 days ago. i used to use city water until they changed the chlorine to chloramine recently which does not dissolve out in gaseous form and also kills microbiologic life in the soil. I personally and never going back to city water, though i did fine with it before. RO will be better for dialing in a nutrient mix, has no Ph buffers in it like tap water does, and none of the bullshit they poison people with like fluoride. I'm not saying you can't grow with city water cause everyone has been doing it for years... but i just believe that the soil will be more active (especially when i get a living soil garden going), and it's easier to know exactly what's in your water. But i'm a soil grower, it's not for everyone but it's what's for me. I've put a lot of hard work into my grow now that i'm a caregiver, i want to give people the best quality medicine possible and imo, soil is the only way to do that. When i go living soil, i will have soil beds under each lamp that never get changed, just add new compost worm castings, and rock dust. Feed with teas. no more bottle nutrients (or very few if needed for a deficiency). but if the soil is built correctly, there should be no deficiencies.