EXCUSE ME?!..The OFFICIAL Bernie Sanders For President 2016 Thread

Queece

Queece

Well-Known Member
You guys are like cosplayers. NLxSK is correct, 40 hours a week is a totally arbitrary number made up by people clearly out of touch with how actual work is done. It's like saying there is a legalistic reason why a red-light camera snaps a picture at 3 seconds and not 2 (or 2 in New York when they tell you 3). There is an immense problem with technical legislation in this country, if you want to be an activist nowadays, look no further than the most boring part of studying law.

People buy cars to impress other people. There is absolutely no reason why most people own personal cars, excluding the fact that women like nice cars. Does any rational, thinking man that has to earn his own money want to buy a Lamborghini Countach? Hell no, we know how much it costs, how ugly it is, and how it is definitively not 10x the amount of car you would get over buying a Honda Civic. It's because women absolutely do look at how willing you are to spend inordinate amounts of money on frivolous shit like cars, diamonds, and family courts when choosing a mate. The fact that Italian sports cars are fast is just an act of mercy on the engineers' part, they're cool because they're expensive.

The problem is, get ready for it: ..........EVERYONE'S BROKE! There is no more money anymore! Rich guys have all of it and they're too busy buying more derivatives exposure to actually purchase anything outside of the video game economy. Seriously, look around you, where is the avenue to being independently wealthy within the American dream? You basically have to be a financial speculator to even catch a sideways whiff of wealth in this country anymore. You want to retire? Better know how to sue Goldman-Sachs to get your pension back.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Read more closely and this is bullshit. People buy cars so they can get out and spend money! Shopping, entertainment, business, cars are a huge accelerant for the local economy- nevermind that ask those car companies who source parts and assembly services nationwide.

Workers in this country used to have money to buy up in housing every five years, a new car every two, a two to four week vacation every year and still put away savings for retirement (pensions! ) and their kid's college.

What's wrong with THAT?
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Nothing, as long as you can afford it. Better yet, avoid debt for anything other than a house. Even then, treat that house as a hedge against inflation rather than an investment. Buy the least house you need and pay it off as soon as possible. The best way to save money is to not spend it. I know, this is boring but millenials seem to know this better than those older than they are -- except the depression era generation who were champions at saving. Good for them.

However, it seems that conservatives want it both ways. They, just as much as anybody are spending their way towards retirement into poverty yet scream "personal responsibility" when someone else runs into hard times.

I'm liberal politically but personally fiscally cautious. Personal responsibility is just that. Personal. Nobody else's business.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Queece said:
You guys are like cosplayers. NLxSK is correct, 40 hours a week is a totally arbitrary number made up by people clearly out of touch with how actual work is done. It's like saying there is a legalistic reason why a red-light camera snaps a picture at 3 seconds and not 2 (or 2 in New York when they tell you 3). There is an immense problem with technical legislation in this country, if you want to be an activist nowadays, look no further than the most boring part of studying law.

People buy cars to impress other people. There is absolutely no reason why most people own personal cars, excluding the fact that women like nice cars. Does any rational, thinking man that has to earn his own money want to buy a Lamborghini Countach? Hell no, we know how much it costs, how ugly it is, and how it is definitively not 10x the amount of car you would get over buying a Honda Civic. It's because women absolutely do look at how willing you are to spend inordinate amounts of money on frivolous shit like cars, diamonds, and family courts when choosing a mate. The fact that Italian sports cars are fast is just an act of mercy on the engineers' part, they're cool because they're expensive.

The problem is, get ready for it: ..........EVERYONE'S BROKE! There is no more money anymore! Rich guys have all of it and they're too busy buying more derivatives exposure to actually purchase anything outside of the video game economy. Seriously, look around you, where is the avenue to being independently wealthy within the American dream? You basically have to be a financial speculator to even catch a sideways whiff of wealth in this country anymore. You want to retire? Better know how to sue Goldman-Sachs to get your pension back.
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You have a pension? You must be old. Most people haven't worked for companies with a pension plan for a long time.

Talk about personal responsibility, what about the responsibility of employers towards the workers that had a pension scheme? What those companies eventually do is run up debt, suck out all the capital, pay off the CEOs, declare bankruptcy and put the pension plan under federal pension insurance receivership. Goldman gets its vig from consulting fees through the bankruptcy proceedings. Pensioners then get the minimum allowed under the pension insurance scheme, not what was promised by their employer. You can't sue because pensioners are junior to bond holders. Now that, in my mind is evil.
 
Queece

Queece

Well-Known Member
I just think it's funny that there's far more riveting political discussion happening on a weed growing forum than what's actually going on in the real body politic. The actual scope of political machinations today is one side wanting all your rights, and the other side wanting all your money, and they flip-flop. Occasionally they find ways to take away your money by taking away your rights (Obamacare). Sometimes they find ways of taking away your rights by taking away your money (citizen's united).

I think, before any more measured discussion takes place, that one thing be made clear. I think everyone on this forum has been consistently in accord with the new paradigm of politics. There is no left/right anymore. It's vertical now. Authoritarian/libertarian, and I think everyone here is more libertarian than anything. The rest is just horse-trading and infighting.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Queece said:
I just think it's funny that there's far more riveting political discussion happening on a weed growing forum than what's actually going on in the real body politic. The actual scope of political machinations today is one side wanting all your rights, and the other side wanting all your money, and they flip-flop. Occasionally they find ways to take away your money by taking away your rights (Obamacare). Sometimes they find ways of taking away your rights by taking away your money (citizen's united).

I think, before any more measured discussion takes place, that one thing be made clear. I think everyone on this forum has been consistently in accord with the new paradigm of politics. There is no left/right anymore. It's vertical now. Authoritarian/libertarian, and I think everyone here is more libertarian than anything. The rest is just horse-trading and infighting.
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Nope, not me. Libertarianism is a hall of smoke and mirrors. Unfounded in human history or behavior. There is no such thing as "market forces". Libertarians use that term when they don't understand what just happened. Economics are not physics. Libertarianism is just another form of faith in the supernatural only its called "The Market".

I agree somewhat with the idea that people of the left and right are not as different as we often say. Whenever I've gotten into a good discussion with a conservative, I've found that we agree on what we want for this country and the people in it. We often disagree how to get there or who should lead it but our objectives are not that different.

But libertarian ideas are more of faith in what would be if only we completely dismantled the current system and everybody changed how they behaved, as if people were an idea rather than a part of the natural world. In that way its more like communism, which in book form was also a philosophical construct unfounded in human history or behavior, at least it was until Communism became realized. Then the human animal did what it always does.
 
Queece

Queece

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
You have a pension? You must be old. Most people haven't worked for companies with a pension plan for a long time.

Talk about personal responsibility, what about the responsibility of employers towards the workers that had a pension scheme? What those companies eventually do is run up debt, suck out all the capital, pay off the CEOs, declare bankruptcy and put the pension plan under federal pension insurance receivership. Goldman gets it's vig from consulting fees through the bankruptcy proceedings. Pensioners then get the minimum allowed under the pension insurance scheme, not what was promised by their employer. You can't sue because pensioners are junior to bond holders. Now that, in my mind is evil.
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I was talking about managed pension funds, I used to be Teamsters myself, and I remember the union actually threatening mob-style violence to return the stolen pension funds. Guess what, it worked. A lot of the time, the pensions are spread out over a mutual fund with a basket of stocks and ETFs that are safe bets as they are being made as passive investments. With growth being zero and interest rates also being zero, you can't expect a return on any of that money now. Meanwhile, the hedge fund that manages the pension account is allowing other clientele to front-run the pensioners and scalp away their money, and generating unnecessary fees by making fraudulent transactions on behalf of the pension account.

It's well known that pension-fund managers are the biggest suckers on Wall Street, but they kind of have to be if they're playing the passive-investment game. I don't think pensions will even be a thing for most non-government employees unless you utilize a self-managed super fund exclusively using PMs, treasury notes, and Bitcoin.

The most major problem with banking and investment is that the only recourse you have is to take your case to, not a court, but an arbitration committee. The committee is stacked with insiders and will throw your case out, guaranteed (unless you are Teamsters and threaten to make them vanish).
 
Queece

Queece

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Nope, not me. Libertarianism is a hall of smoke and mirrors. Unfounded in human history or behavior. There is no such thing as "market forces". Libertarians use that term when they don't understand what just happened. Economics are not physics. Libertarianism is just another form of faith in the supernatural only its called "The Market".

I agree somewhat with the idea that people of the left and right are not as different as we often say. Whenever I've gotten into a good discussion with a conservative, I've found that we agree on what we want for this country and the people in it. We often disagree how to get there or who should lead it but our objectives are not that different.

But libertarian ideas are more of faith in what would be if only we completely dismantled the current system and everybody changed how they behaved, as if people were an idea rather than a part of the natural world. In that way its more like communism, which in book form was also a philosophical construct unfounded in human history or behavior, at least it was until Communism became realized. Then the human animal did what it always does.
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See, that is why I think Moby Dick is the definitive Great American Novel. Our methods are always sound, but our goals are always insane. I think any macro-philosophy treats all of humanity as chattel, and that's why there has never been a successful one. That's why it's important to have several schools of thought at once working synergistically. It's like LED lighting. You can grow a plant with pure 720nm light, but it sucks, but when you add 640nm, you get greater growth than using either spectrum individually. The more ideas that can peacefully exist in the same area leads to something greater than the sum of it's parts.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Queece said:
See, that is why I think Moby Dick is the definitive Great American Novel. Our methods are always sound, but our goals are always insane. I think any macro-philosophy treats all of humanity as chattel, and that's why there has never been a successful one. That's why it's important to have several schools of thought at once working synergistically. It's like LED lighting. You can grow a plant with pure 720nm light, but it sucks, but when you add 640nm, you get greater growth than using either spectrum individually. The more ideas that can peacefully exist in the same area leads to something greater than the sum of it's parts.
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You know, Queece, you've finally said something I can agree with.
 
Queece

Queece

Well-Known Member
Oh I'm not completely crazy man, if you're actually here for growing advise, I'll always lead you in the right direction. Alls I need to sound smart are the right metaphors, which cannabis is so very good at providing.
 
R

red w. blue

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Nothing, as long as you can afford it. Better yet, avoid debt for anything other than a house. Even then, treat that house as a hedge against inflation rather than an investment. Buy the least house you need and pay it off as soon as possible. The best way to save money is to not spend it. I know, this is boring but millenials seem to know this better than those older than they are -- except the depression era generation who were champions at saving. Good for them.

However, it seems that conservatives want it both ways. They, just as much as anybody are spending their way towards retirement into poverty yet scream "personal responsibility" when someone else runs into hard times.

I'm liberal politically but personally fiscally cautious. Personal responsibility is just that. Personal. Nobody else's business.
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I'm fiscally conservative and have all I need and want, paid cash for my new place, the truck driver I got it from built it and gave me one hell of a deal because I paid cash. the only note is on the house I am in now and I paid 1/3 down. My SS after insurance comes in at 1,290 so I am set up right, my cars, truck and boat are paid for so I am set for life and will leave a lot when I die. I never understood why people live from pay check to pay check. We mostly see eye to eye here.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
londonfog said:
don

Rob we have to stop at stop signs and red lights. Stop trying to always go against the grain just because....and no you can't walk around naked in public.
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You have drawn a set of erroneous conclusions.

In the absence of a central authority holding a monopoly on violence (present day government) that doesn't mean people that administer roads or use roads would drive like fools anymore than having a central authority prevents everybody from driving like fools.

You seem to think about me being naked a lot. I like you, but not that way big guy.
 
Not GOP

Not GOP

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
Ben & Jerry's New Flavor: Bernie Sanders

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0ahUKEwiT0KjCjMbKAhXJ7R4KHXCxAukQqUMIFDAD&url=http://www.today.com/food/ben-jerry-s-founder-creates-bernie-sanders-ice-cream-flavor-t69056&usg=AFQjCNFMoYuaYiVmygDQtqXUl83OL8iO1A&sig2=LOr6roYlA3_QxHe4gflZXg
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How am I supposed to dig my spoon in it? The stupid chocolate disc on top makes this the most retarded ice cream ever. It makes less sense than Bernie running for president.
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Not GOP said:
How am I supposed to dig my spoon in it? The stupid chocolate disc on top makes this the most retarded ice cream ever. It makes less sense than Bernie running for president.
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The chocolate disk is a metaphor for how the rich prevent the poor from having any money... - sarcasm!!
 
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