GrumpyToker
Well-Known Member
VJ x Bald Eagle
LEC - Light-Emitting Ceramic
- Thread starter potroastV2
- Start date
hyroot
Well-Known Member
= cooter
BOBBY_G
Well-Known Member
i heard about that place down there that was supposed to be legit. midnight star? midnight farms? something like that
GrumpyToker
Well-Known Member
The farm genetics and clones dispensary is probably what you're thinking of
Cowboy Kahlil
Well-Known Member
I finally have room to grow but the problem is electricity. Previously, a smaller room held two 1000W HPS and the veg rm held one 1000W MH. (owned by a fellow grower). Now we're enlarging the spaces. The veg rm has been converted to T-5s (four of the 8 bulb fixtures).
Initial plan for the flower rm was to have four 1000W HPS plus a big honkin' AC with all on 220V. To do this, I need to install a new power panel, which balloooned into a fresh headache.
Electrician noted, to do this, I ALSO had to switch out the house panel. And a masthead. And the line between the house and outbuilding. I can run the wires/outlets, but a power panel's beyond my expertise. So my estimate of $1000 or less for electrician ballooned to $3000. AND there's more.
The utility says the transformer needs an upgrade. Another $1400. I asked for a separate meter to the outbuilding, to free the house from the calculation. That costs $200 to install, so that sounded like a remedy. But no, the electrician came back with a ballpark range of $2500 - $3500.... so coupled with the new line and transformer upgrade, we're still in a total range of $4100-$5100. WAY over budget.
That's when I came up with a potential alternative.... ceramic halides.
In place of three 1000W fixtures (2 HPS, 1 MH), I could run four 630 ceramic halides, pulling 2520 watts, dropping, not increasing the electric usage. But adding the four T-5 fixtures and an 18500 BTU A/C would make it pretty close to the previous voltage pull.
Voila! Now (I think), I can light up my life without a new power panel or transformer upgrade.
HOWEVER, I'm not an electric whiz.and am a total noob on ceramics, so I'm asking for guidance.
I'm looking at a Nanolux CMH 630W Double Lamp Fixture 120/240V, which is a double bulb fixture at New England Hydro. (Fixture = $550 plus 2 bulbs = $160). So here's my questions:
1) Unlike the HPS, it looks like the ballasts are attached. So with the ballasts INSIDE the flower room, I presume that ups my A/C needs. How much A/C will I need per fixture?
2) How big's the footprint per fixture?
3) How close to the plants should the fixtures be?
I have 10' ceilings. I have 18' x 10' space for the flower room (Plan A had me putting six 1000W HPS in, but it's easy to make the room smaller for 4 ceramic halides).
4) Any other problems you see with this plan?
If there's a better halide fixture to use, please note that. This plan, though, would cost me $2840, which is considerably less than Plan A.
Here's the fixture I'm looking at.
http://www.nehydro.com/nanolux-cmh-630w-double-lamp-fixture-120-240v/
(Or would four 315s do the job? If so, and if they have a 4' x 4' footprint, I could run 6 x 315 = 1890 watts in an 8 x 12 area WAY cheaper than four 1000W HPS.)
Initial plan for the flower rm was to have four 1000W HPS plus a big honkin' AC with all on 220V. To do this, I need to install a new power panel, which balloooned into a fresh headache.
Electrician noted, to do this, I ALSO had to switch out the house panel. And a masthead. And the line between the house and outbuilding. I can run the wires/outlets, but a power panel's beyond my expertise. So my estimate of $1000 or less for electrician ballooned to $3000. AND there's more.
The utility says the transformer needs an upgrade. Another $1400. I asked for a separate meter to the outbuilding, to free the house from the calculation. That costs $200 to install, so that sounded like a remedy. But no, the electrician came back with a ballpark range of $2500 - $3500.... so coupled with the new line and transformer upgrade, we're still in a total range of $4100-$5100. WAY over budget.
That's when I came up with a potential alternative.... ceramic halides.
In place of three 1000W fixtures (2 HPS, 1 MH), I could run four 630 ceramic halides, pulling 2520 watts, dropping, not increasing the electric usage. But adding the four T-5 fixtures and an 18500 BTU A/C would make it pretty close to the previous voltage pull.
Voila! Now (I think), I can light up my life without a new power panel or transformer upgrade.
HOWEVER, I'm not an electric whiz.and am a total noob on ceramics, so I'm asking for guidance.
I'm looking at a Nanolux CMH 630W Double Lamp Fixture 120/240V, which is a double bulb fixture at New England Hydro. (Fixture = $550 plus 2 bulbs = $160). So here's my questions:
1) Unlike the HPS, it looks like the ballasts are attached. So with the ballasts INSIDE the flower room, I presume that ups my A/C needs. How much A/C will I need per fixture?
2) How big's the footprint per fixture?
3) How close to the plants should the fixtures be?
I have 10' ceilings. I have 18' x 10' space for the flower room (Plan A had me putting six 1000W HPS in, but it's easy to make the room smaller for 4 ceramic halides).
4) Any other problems you see with this plan?
If there's a better halide fixture to use, please note that. This plan, though, would cost me $2840, which is considerably less than Plan A.
Here's the fixture I'm looking at.
http://www.nehydro.com/nanolux-cmh-630w-double-lamp-fixture-120-240v/
(Or would four 315s do the job? If so, and if they have a 4' x 4' footprint, I could run 6 x 315 = 1890 watts in an 8 x 12 area WAY cheaper than four 1000W HPS.)
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SoOLED
Well-Known Member
drop those 4ft T-5's they pull 400w's you could add 2 630( or just two 315 would veg fine) more CMHs and save another 740 watts . not sure if the T-5's pulls less amps though. drop one of the 1000 HPS and add a light movers for the other two, dump the 1 MH as well. have them move away from each other: one is move to the wall the other to the center, and visa-versa. you can save another 1000w's
though, after thinking your problem my be in height. CMH's can be a lot closer them HPS, and they would shadow some light. a single 315 CMH is about 18'' or less by now cause of growth. the stick is 18'' from the light. I ran HPS for years, id never run one that close. its hitting 4x4 from that height. at about 350 on the corners and 600 center on the meter. 3100k phill EA bulb. should be noted that's close to half the light output of the 1000hps.
I guess part of my thinking of running the cobs, and not my HPS was because of how much lower the other lights have to be. my HPs would never move much about 16'' the whole grow. I will have to move these lights maybe double that.
however, I have not seem too much difference in growing, id say I'm about 1 week behind and HPS set up: growth wise. but only running 1300 watts vs 3300 +/-
the UVB, and IR spike with the CMH is not a lie I just have the one at the moment, and the new bulbs (I ran older ones in the past) will cook you, I spent 5 minutes with hand in the SCROG and it was tingling, and my eyes just from the bounce from the tent. I cant imagine what 8 630's would do it would be impossible to work under for more then a few.
I'm gonna say: you might have problem running the HPS and CMH together without interference, of the higher HPS.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
UVA/UVB priced sunglasses. NOT optional if you want to protect your vision from macular degeneration.drop those 4ft T-5's they pull 400w's you could add 2 630( or just two 315 would veg fine) more CMHs and save another 740 watts . not sure if the T-5's pulls less amps though. drop one of the 1000 HPS and add a light movers for the other two, dump the 1 MH as well. have them move away from each other: one is move to the wall the other to the center, and visa-versa. you can save another 1000w's
though, after thinking your problem my be in height. CMH's can be a lot closer them HPS, and they would shadow some light. a single 315 CMH is about 18'' or less by now cause of growth. the stick is 18'' from the light. I ran HPS for years, id never run one that close. its hitting 4x4 from that height. at about 350 on the corners and 600 center on the meter. 3100k phill EA bulb. should be noted that's close to half the light output of the 1000hps.
I guess part of my thinking of running the cobs, and not my HPS was because of how much lower the other lights have to be. my HPs would never move much about 16'' the whole grow. I will have to move these lights maybe double that.
however, I have not seem too much difference in growing, id say I'm about 1 week behind and HPS set up: growth wise. but only running 1300 watts vs 3300 +/-
the UVB, and IR spike with the CMH is not a lie I just have the one at the moment, and the new bulbs (I ran older ones in the past) will cook you, I spent 5 minutes with hand in the SCROG and it was tingling, and my eyes just from the bounce from the tent. I cant imagine what 8 630's would do it would be impossible to work under for more then a few.
I'm gonna say: you might have problem running the HPS and CMH together without interference, of the higher HPS.
Under $15 at Walmart, in the sporting goods section.
Cowboy Kahlil
Well-Known Member
I see that the ads say one 315 CMH can replace two T-5s of 2' x 8' size (presumably 8 bulb ) Yet the footprint is way smaller than two T5 fixtures provide, so (sacre bleu!) how can this be?
And in flower, can ceramic stand alone or is it better to have Big Daddy Sodium riding herd over the supplemental CMHs?
I'm possibly seeking a half-step below optimal conditions (for now) to reduce the cost of electrician-and-utility, plus lowering operating costs. If that means a small loss in productivity but still funky danky bud and healthy plants, that'll work in the short run, with further upgrades later?
What have CMH users found (as opposed to the ad creators)?
SoOLED
Well-Known Member
watch this 1-6
I have never ran and ALL CMH solution. they have always been a supplement. since the UVB is all but in the books to boost resins/tric prodruction. and you get that in spades with CMH.
its a big chance, I have not seen much on the dual CMH 630's they should be within slap boxing range of one HPS 1000, and if you get the ones with external ballasts they can be very cool running. I did in the past have the suntec internal ballasts, and switched to the phantoms because of heat., I'm glad I did. but in room as big as yours it maybe moot.
I think running two lines of CMH with one single HPS/on a mover in symmetric L/R arrangement would work.
SoOLED
Well-Known Member
yeah for sure, the CMH has this two pixel spike just past the 800NM that hits the roof.
I have some glasses but, they are just cheap UV ones. maybe I need UVAUVB/IP7's at the same time.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
It's not the spike at 800nm that will cook your skin and eyes, cuz that's RED; it's the ones from 450nm and lower numerically- 'higher' up the spectrum, or UV.
Sire Killem All
Well-Known Member
I run 2 630 nanolux ( in my sig.)
Dropping them next week.
Cowboy Kahlil
Well-Known Member
Dropping because they don't do the job, or just switching brands?
Sire Killem All
Well-Known Member
Shoulda been more clear, droppng/chopping my first grow with them. They are gonna stay around as far as I can tell, they seem like should be comparable to my 1k HPS minus the big temp increase that comes with using HPS. As long as the weight doesn't drop to much, next run will be just CHM and probably buy another
SoOLED
Well-Known Member
for sure let use know, you ran two 630's in place of 2 1000 HPS? very interested in the final weigh in: since there is not a whole lot of data on the 630's to yield. I just hear the voodoo, of you will have a little less weight, but higher tric production. like I said it just interweb voodoo.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Let's reduce some potential points of confusion; the 630 is simply a fixture that operates two 315W CMH lights. Frankly, I don't see the advantage of sticking two lamps in the same fixture because you've given up the flexibility of independent placement.
Several posters who have run them feel they are roughly equivalent to 500W of HPS each, meaning that two would do a decent job of swapping for an SE thouie... And while I haven't seen anyone try it yet, I think it's a safe guess that three would give a DE HPS fixture run at 1150-1200W a serious run for its money- and part of their advantage would be simply having three of them to spread across the canopy as opposed to just one very hot point source.
GroErr
Well-Known Member
If the 630's covered a 5x5' well and that footprint worked in your space they would be equivalent to 2x 315 fixtures. That's a big if, haven't seen a 630 run in a 5x5. I know 2x 315's can cover off 3.5x7' which is 24.5 sq. ft. so the 630 covering 25 sq. ft. would match 2x 315's. Question is can a single light source (2 bulbs but still one source) cover off 5x5 and get decent production. What I'd question with the 630's is coverage, including height/depth of canopy. To cover off 5x5 you'd have to run them up high, probably 30"+ above the canopy to reach the edges, but would they penetrate down far enough if you're running say 36"-42"H plants? The 315's can do that with 2x 315's @24.5 sq. ft.
BOBBY_G
Well-Known Member
agreed. 2 x 315 over a 630 all day long. is cheaper and more versatile. dont get me started on 'the beast'. conceptually its great if you have 12' ceilings or something
