Do you believe in God?

[iHearAll]

^ do you have a Facebook page dedicated to debunking pseudoscience by chance?

-

Let's go back to the beginning (yuk yuk)...

Pada’s quote: The big bang theory describes the origin of the universe and it has evidence that backs it up


Me: Please provide, eh? The math breaks down at singularity. "Science requests, "Give us one free miracle and we'll explain the rest." And the one free miracle is the appearance of all the matter and energy in the universe and all the laws that govern it from nothing at a single instant."


You: It's actually only religious apologists who insist that if God didn't do it, it had to be a miracle of the universe coming from nothing. (Now, if I was into tactics I'd question your use of the word "nothing" right here... But that would add another unnecessary ellipse into this system, therefore, nonsensical - perhaps even unbalanced.)

It's just a plain lie to mislead people about the science, to build a straw man of the science and drive people away from it.

There are many speculative hypotheses about where everything came from beyond the extent of our knowledge about the big bang.

They are all far more rigorously checked for consistency with known physics, than 'god did it'.

A few of them have found ways that the universe could have come from a nothing-like state, no miracles required.

Don't believe that those are the only alternatives to goddidit. It's a lie.

Don't believe they require a miracle either - they are constructed out of physics as we currently understand it, extended in speculation beyond the current limits of the evidence.

Goddidit is not constructed out of any of the principles of physics, and it specifically violates many of them.

Going from 'I don't know', i.e. 'the math breaks down at the singularity' to 'it must have been magic' is classic theist fallacy town - projected onto science and scientists as a straw man.

^

It's your mistake claiming there's a miracle where the math of General Relativity breaks down, not the science's.

Did I say that it is a miracle? Please quote were I wrote that, specifically, verbatim, also showing the intent that you've projected to the quote. Metaphor, period.

Science doesn't say 'beyond that there's a miracle', it says 'we need to figure out how gravity fits in with quantum physics to investigate further back in time; we currently don't know the answer'.

gravity is in the electromagnetic spectrum. the sun is an electric charge, a sea of electrons, and the field we rotate upon is an equipotential line. an equipotential line if you remember in physics is the line where (k*q)/r=Voltage and r (radius) remains the same.

 

[iHearAll]

also DNA is a piezoelectric discharge into time. the coding of it controls the discharge formation and in turn everything about each person becomes different by variable.

 

[VietnameseBlackSativa]

I used to be an athiest. Then finding out that everything from NASA is bullshit and the whole Heliocentric Earth spinning globe model is a complete hoax. All of them discoverer's of science and mathematics (Pythagoras, Copernicus, Newton, Galileo etc) are all fukn Freemasons. Discovering about the Fibonaci seqeuence helped solidfy my belief in a creator. The Darwinian theory of evolution is bullshit. Richard Dawkins even admitted that he is no longer an athiest but an agnostic. Listen to Neil de grasse Tyson explaining his version pear shaped spinning earth. The guy is a lying ass crackpot, you have to be really gullible to believe his nonsense.

 

[GreenLogician]

VietnameseBlackSativa, what you've bought into now is the bullshit, not the scientific consensus.
Everything from NASA is bullshit? Evolution is bullshit? Dawkins admitted that he is no longer an atheist? Tyson's own different 'version'?
Nothing you said is true, you've had twisted versions of partial truths and misrepresentations drilled into your head.
Try to support anything you said, you'll only be able to quote mine and lie in regards to Dawkins and Tyson, and you don't stand a chance of showing that evolution or 'everything from NASA' is bullshit.

 

[VietnameseBlackSativa]

VietnameseBlackSativa, what you've bought into now is the bullshit, not the scientific consensus.
Everything from NASA is bullshit? Evolution is bullshit? Dawkins admitted that he is no longer an atheist? Tyson's own different 'version'?
Nothing you said is true, you've had twisted versions of partial truths and misrepresentations drilled into your head.
Try to support anything you said, you'll only be able to quote mine and lie in regards to Dawkins and Tyson, and you don't stand a chance of showing that evolution or 'everything from NASA' is bullshit.

Ok bro, keep doing what you are doing. Whatever makes you happy. Didn't mean to intentionally offend you.

 

[Don't Bogart]

I was born Catholic. Became a born-Again Christian. Now am a member of a Synagogue. It is my belief that God exists. But not in any shape,matter, or form that allows us to captivate God. The fact that so many cultures around the world came to there own conclusion that something beyond their comprehension watches over them gives pause as to whether we should so readily dismiss it.
When the time comes for the face to face revelation I think we will be disappointed at the simplicity while in awe of the magnitude of this entity.
I think most of what we base our beliefs on is magnified mythology. God exists but not held by any rules you find in a book.

 

[GreenLogician]

The fact that so many cultures around the world came to there own conclusion that something beyond their comprehension watches over them gives pause as to whether we should so readily dismiss it.

While I don't dismiss the conceivable possibility of a god out of hand, I don't find that something that indicates a god exists - humans are naturally clumsy thinkers in that aspect. It was an evolutionary advantage to make more false positives than false negatives. The former is when you presume agency for weak reasons and flee, wasting energy fleeing more often than not when you mistakenly infer agency. The latter is when you presume no agency, waiting for better evidence - in a predator environment making a mistake here leads to death, not merely wasted energy. So we are genetically predisposed to presume agency is behind something surprising to us, for bad reasons.

This is extensively tested, people are indeed clumsy at this, easily mistakenly presuming agency behind natural events.
The variety in the beliefs of "so many cultures around the world", presuming very different invisible agents are behind natural events, suggests it to be a result of clumsy thinking in agency detection.
Not that they actually have a reliable means of detecting such agents. Then they would all converge on the same answers.

 

[abalonehx]

I used to be an athiest. Then finding out that everything from NASA is bullshit and the whole Heliocentric Earth spinning globe model is a complete hoax. All of them discoverer's of science and mathematics (Pythagoras, Copernicus, Newton, Galileo etc) are all fukn Freemasons. Discovering about the Fibonaci seqeuence helped solidfy my belief in a creator. The Darwinian theory of evolution is bullshit. Richard Dawkins even admitted that he is no longer an athiest but an agnostic. Listen to Neil de grasse Tyson explaining his version pear shaped spinning earth. The guy is a lying ass crackpot, you have to be really gullible to believe his nonsense.

...And what made up nonsense do you believe?
An atheist is only one who doesnt believe this nonsense dogma because of its total lack of proof.
You can be an atheist AND agnostic. Please learn the definitions of the terms. Freemasons? Youve been listening to Alex Jones again havent you? NASA is an illuminati conspiracy too? lol, get the fuck outta here...spiritual numerology is also bunk... ok, I know the real truth is all being supressed by the lizard people...
and its Atheist not athiEST

 

[abalonehx]

I was born Catholic. Became a born-Again Christian. Now am a member of a Synagogue. It is my belief that God exists. But not in any shape,matter, or form that allows us to captivate God. The fact that so many cultures around the world came to there own conclusion that something beyond their comprehension watches over them gives pause as to whether we should so readily dismiss it.
When the time comes for the face to face revelation I think we will be disappointed at the simplicity while in awe of the magnitude of this entity.
I think most of what we base our beliefs on is magnified mythology. God exists but not held by any rules you find in a book.

-The fact that so many religions and cultural interpretations exist for a "God" or Creator only suggests that those ideas are creations of man's mind effected by his surroundings, Not of any higher knowledge. And of course a total lack of evidence for any of the claims.
-"When the time comes..." = "Pascal's Wager"
-"God exists but not held by any rules..." = "Special Pleading"
Reasoning Failure.

 

[Don't Bogart]

Philosophy falls hard when it try to justify logic with your intelligence. To basically say there is no god is to say we define the absoluteness of where intelligence can go. Nothing is smarter than us!
That said, just in case... Nothing is smarter than Them!!!

 

[Nugachino]

Fairytales are for the feeble minded.

 

[PCXV]

Something may be smarter than us, but there is no proof god exists. Science has destroyed the credibility of most religious doctrine.

 

[GreenLogician]

Don't Bogart, can you expand on your first sentence?

"Philosophy falls hard when it try to justify logic with your intelligence."
--- What do you mean 'justify logic'? The logical validity of a line of reasoning is justified by comparing it to a standard, not just assuming that since we are intelligent by nature, it must be right.

"To basically say there is no god is to say..."
--- Philosophy doesn't say that. Clarify please.

 

[Don't Bogart]

Yah gotta be careful whatcha type when yer stoned....
One of the strange things about our ability to reason is that it is finite. We can be one dimensional -" I'm right. Your wrong. That's it!"
Two- " I believe I'm right but I need to hear you out. I'm willing to listen." Three" I'm not sure if your right or if I am. Maybe it's something in between."
These are very simple examples.

GreenLogician"To basically say there is no god is to say..."
--- Philosophy doesn't say that. Clarify please.

I mean in justifying logic, this is very generalized, that some scientists and philosophers do believe there is no god and have said so. But were not smart enough to then go throw out the baby with the bathwater. Religion itself has done so much damage to a belief in a god that no wonder people like

Nugachino " Fairytales are for the feeble minded."

see it as a waste of time to have a faith.
I believe in a supreme being. Maybe that being is fallible. Won't admit it. But is very sorry for the mess created. Kinda like the wizard in the Wizard of OZ.
Try this.
https://www.ted.com/talks/stephen_hawking_asks_big_questions_about_the_universe

Doesn't answer anything about God. But I'll use it as a distraction until I get straight. I"ll pencil in a time maybe by March. To follow up with my thoughts.

Oh one more thing. I'll give you an example of a belief in a philosophy that went horribly wrong for one person.
Ian Rand developed Objectivism. You may remember she wrote "Atlas Shrugged". One of her greatest admirers was Alan Greenspan. He so believed in her philosophy that he felt that Wall Street did not need to be regulated. That Wall Street would regulate itself.

 

[KryptoBud]

If there's a god why are there so many versions? Why does each religion have it's own set of rules? If god created life and a set of rules to follow wouldn't you think everyone would've been given the same handbook? God created the world, the heavens and the sea in six days. If he knows all and see's all why are there churches and why do they need cash all the time? Certainly the creator of all must have a solid line of credit. I think it's to keep the pedophiles safely moving around the world while preaching how masterbation is a sin. Then there's all the so called miracles. He walk on water and turn water into wine which sounds pretty impressive doesn't it? If you think about it why with all the miracle's he performed did three nails pose such a problem? He could've ordered up some rain to rust them out or lightning bolts to cut him free. Three nails ended this supreme being? Sounds like bullshit to me, but I'll gladly accept paid holidays in his name.

 

[ThaiBaby1]

I was born Catholic. Became a born-Again Christian. Now am a member of a Synagogue. It is my belief that God exists. But not in any shape,matter, or form that allows us to captivate God. The fact that so many cultures around the world came to there own conclusion that something beyond their comprehension watches over them gives pause as to whether we should so readily dismiss it.
When the time comes for the face to face revelation I think we will be disappointed at the simplicity while in awe of the magnitude of this entity.
I think most of what we base our beliefs on is magnified mythology. God exists but not held by any rules you find in a book.

 

[GreenLogician]

Don't Bogart, "I mean in justifying logic, this is very generalized, that some scientists and philosophers do believe there is no god and have said so. But were not smart enough to then go throw out the baby with the bathwater."

Some do- what's the baby here?
God is the bathwater, when they believe there is no god they are throwing out the bathwater, but what's the baby you think they would throw out too if they were smart enough?
(Logic? Why would someone throw that out in taking the position of strong atheism?)

Me: "Philosophy doesn't say that. Clarify please."
--- If you want to classify this in your three dimensions scale, it was 2; I believe I'm right but am willing to hear you out and maybe be surprised.

"Some scientists and philosophers do believe there is no god and have said so."
--- Now this, I can agree with. It's just not the same as saying that philosophy and science says there is no god

 

[iHearAll]

derrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[iHearAll]

dude, saying there is no God defies the power of God. Clearly you win! bakashaka bakashaka bakashaka shaka,shaka,shaka,shaka

 

[GreenLogician]

dude, saying there is no God defies the power of God. Clearly you win! bakashaka bakashaka bakashaka shaka,shaka,shaka,shaka

Can you help me understand what you mean?
If saying that would defy the power of god, then humans couldn't say it, right?
So if God exists, humans shouldn't be able to say that?
So since we can say that, God does not exist?
Help me out with following your reasoning there