GroErr Grows...

[visajoe1]

Lol if it's a meter it should be able to switch to read EC, which is the number I'm really after.

Ya, I've read a lot of your posts, trying to gleam as much as I can from guys like you and @GroErr . I definitely picked up on the importance of EC, and I will heed that advice. Its the curiosity in me that wants to know what scale my ppm is at, I cant help it, lol. Thanks for sharing all the knowledge that you do

Is it possible to have low ppm and high ec? I thought they correlate with eachother

 

[ttystikk]

Ya, I've read a lot of your posts, trying to gleam as much as I can from guys like you and @GroErr . I definitely picked up on the importance of EC, and I will heed that advice. Its the curiosity in me that wants to know what scale my ppm is at, I cant help it, lol. Thanks for sharing all the knowledge that you do

Is it possible to have low ppm and high ec? I thought they correlate with eachother

They measure the same thing, electrical conductivity of the aqueous solution. The reason for the different scales is that some dissolved minerals affect EC differently, so they can be useful if you're just trying to measure calcium alone, for instance. We aren't really doing that, we're just trying to get an idea of the strength of our mixture of nutrients.

I strongly suspect that the use of ppm in hydroponics is promoted by nutrient makers specifically to keep their uneducated customers in the dark, so as to feed them more (expensive) bullshit.

And thanks for the kind words, brother.

 

[visajoe1]

They measure the same thing, electrical conductivity of the aqueous solution. The reason for the different scales is that some dissolved minerals affect EC differently, so they can be useful if you're just trying to measure calcium alone, for instance. We aren't really doing that, we're just trying to get an idea of the strength of our mixture of nutrients.

I strongly suspect that the use of ppm in hydroponics is promoted by nutrient makers specifically to keep their uneducated customers in the dark, so as to feed them more (expensive) bullshit.

And thanks for the kind words, brother.

This was the missing piece I think, thanks man. Now I understand why PPM numbers may match recommendations based on recipe (making me think all is ok), but EC levels are insanely high per your guidelines based on age or stage of growth (making me think all is not ok). I feel much better now about just continuing to dilute the premade recipe solution I made to correct EC and PH until its gone. Thanks for the help!

 

[ttystikk]

This was the missing piece I think, thanks man. Now I understand why PPM numbers may match recommendations based on recipe (making me think all is ok), but EC levels are insanely high per your guidelines based on age or stage of growth (making me think all is not ok). I feel much better now about just continuing to dilute the premade recipe solution I made to correct EC and PH until its gone. Thanks for the help!

My best advice in situations like this is to let your plants be your guide. If they're happy, don't try to fix anything!

 

[GroErr]

My best advice in situations like this is to let your plants be your guide. If they're happy, don't try to fix anything!

^^^^ great advice right there ^^^^ regardless of medium you have to find the right balance and give them what they need throughout the cycle.

 

[pinner420]

So just thought i would report back on the probs i had...

I raised the lights dimmed them a bit and hit the girls with 1450ppm. That put a stop to the nute deficiencies... and light bleaching

Now to dial in the sweet spot for the lights...

I believe my original theory was correct. The intensity of the cobs at 12 to 18" above the canopy at full power was driving the plants to eat more than i was feeding at 900ppms or so.

Also, i suspect this strain is just a sensitive one. I think next run ill do northernlights #5. I know that one really well and its an indestructable beast...

Mine also was not enough preveg horse power...

 

[Gquebed]

Is this '1450ppm' on the EC x500 or x700 scale?

Thats on the 500 scale.

 

[Gquebed]

Makes sense and good call to run something you know, always good to have a control strain/pheno. I've never run NL, I have some here somewhere - lol

I'm running them 16-18" this round by the time they're finished stretching out, will be noting any differences. I ran more like 18-20" last round. Haven't seen any bleaching under the COBs so far, did get some with the CMH at anything under 20" or so.

Im always following along here so if/when you notice anything worth mentioning i hope to post it for me to see.

Just a gut feeling, but i suspect getting these lights down to 12" will be very difficult with just about any strain. That might be optimum but, theyre just so intense.

If you have the NL laying around you should run it when you have the space. Theres a reason the NL has stuck around for so long and for why its used to cross so much. It is a very very hardy plant, quick finisher, aromatic, heavy yielder and a hard hitter. Its hard to find a strain that doesnt have a bitbof the NL in the lineage somewhere.

Love it...

 

[indianajones]

ppm was the scale used by the agri program at the college here.
it's easier to measure moles and convert to ppm, so you can do
real soil chemistry using that measurement. cannabis growing is
incredibly simple compared to some other crops.

 

[Growdict]

i am with you visajoe, everyone always asks the conversion on your meter. but i use a TDS EZ meter by HM digital and it does not list a conversion factor anywhere, even on the website. it does talk about what you use to calibrate it. and on the back mine says calibrate with salt NaCl.

 

[indianajones]

that's why knowing the molar equivalency and relation to ppm is so important @Growdict

you could just weigh sodium chloride and figure it out on your own.

 

[GroErr]

Im always following along here so if/when you notice anything worth mentioning i hope to post it for me to see.

Just a gut feeling, but i suspect getting these lights down to 12" will be very difficult with just about any strain. That might be optimum but, theyre just so intense.

If you have the NL laying around you should run it when you have the space. Theres a reason the NL has stuck around for so long and for why its used to cross so much. It is a very very hardy plant, quick finisher, aromatic, heavy yielder and a hard hitter. Its hard to find a strain that doesnt have a bitbof the NL in the lineage somewhere.

Love it...

Yeah I try to remember to post any changes or observations, good for my own reference - lol

12" above canopy would be too low imo for a couple of reasons. Even if they didn't burn/bleach the plants, your coverage would be questionable unless you had a lot of light over them. With single panels in particular, that low would likely provide little coverage on the edges of the canopy and reduce your overall yields. Even with my multiple Tasty bars, spreading them out too much had a noticeable effect last round, decent yield but extended finish times, very noticeable on the end of the room that had less light running.

This round I'm running them a couple of inches closer, 16-18" (not a huge change, I was 18-20" last round). I'm also running a smaller footprint with the 100w bars spaced closer together, so my coverage per sq. ft. is closer to 30w and more evenly spread across the footprint. As mentioned last round there was a notable difference in finish times on the end of the room with the lowest w/sq. ft coverage (22w), pretty sure that was the only variable as I had one pheno on both ends of the room and there was at least a week difference in finish times between the two. I believe this will be the main factor affecting finish times.

The other change though this round was going to 12/12 from 12.5/11.5. I'm running many of the same phenos from clone so I should see if there's any noticeable difference in yield. My main goal is to see if I can reduce the overall finish times a bit and maintain yields running 12/12.

So far, no notable effects and plants seem to be maturing at normal rates:



Cheers

 

[Pulpit_]

I agree with the 16-18" distance, I had no issues last round but i never got closer than 16". Happy looking plants GroErr.

 

[GroErr]

I agree with the 16-18" distance, I had no issues last round but i never got closer than 16". Happy looking plants GroErr.

Cheers Pulpit, and nice ride in your avatar Yeah I think somewhere between 14"-18" is the sweet spot with 3590's. I've run 3070's as close as 6" in the 2x2 tent before with no bleaching but these 3590's are much brighter.

 

[ttystikk]

Thats on the 500 scale.

So that's EC 2.9

 

[ttystikk]

ppm was the scale used by the agri program at the college here.
it's easier to measure moles and convert to ppm, so you can do
real soil chemistry using that measurement. cannabis growing is
incredibly simple compared to some other crops.

That's great when you're dealing with one chemical at a time, but of course we don't do that here.

 

[visajoe1]

^^^^ great advice right there ^^^^ regardless of medium you have to find the right balance and give them what they need throughout the cycle.

Thanks to the both of you for your feedback. Ya, my gut was telling me last week my intentions wasnt quite right with my little ones and they were telling me they werent happy because of what I fed them. They've only received PH'd RO water for the last 8 days, with a semi flush on saturday. They've exploded since saturday, and looks like it repaired damaged leaves too. Incredible! I gave them some .3 EC this morning; rooted clones transplanted 20 days ago into 3g botanicare moisture coco pots, hand water

However, I'm moving them to waterfarms, potentially later today or tomorrow. So this EC feeding level info is significantly more important in that setup as I will be punished pretty quickly as opposed to soil which is what I'm used to. Its easier to add than take away, my golden rule right now

 

[Pulpit_]

Cheers Pulpit, and nice ride in your avatar Yeah I think somewhere between 14"-18" is the sweet spot with 3590's. I've run 3070's as close as 6" in the 2x2 tent before with no bleaching but these 3590's are much brighter.

Thanks, it is 1969 Mustang convertible with a 390 big block, 48,000 orig miles. It is the last 390 Mustang convertible built from the California plant. She is a rare one. back on topic my 10 x 13 ft flower room will be done this weekend. 36 cxb 3590 (1800 watts) covering a 6ft x 8ft table.

 

[ttystikk]

Thanks to the both of you for your feedback. Ya, my gut was telling me last week my intentions wasnt quite right with my little ones and they were telling me they werent happy because of what I fed them. They've only received PH'd RO water for the last 8 days, with a semi flush on saturday. They've exploded since saturday, and looks like it repaired damaged leaves too. Incredible! I gave them some .3 EC this morning; rooted clones transplanted 20 days ago into 3g botanicare moisture coco pots, hand water

However, I'm moving them to waterfarms, potentially later today or tomorrow. So this EC feeding level info is significantly more important in that setup as I will be punished pretty quickly as opposed to soil which is what I'm used to. Its easier to add than take away, my golden rule right now

Aerate, aerate, aerate. Or the slime will come for you.

 

[GroErr]

Thanks, it is 1969 Mustang convertible with a 390 big block, 48,000 orig miles. It is the last 390 Mustang convertible built from the California plant. She is a rare one. back on topic my 10 x 13 ft flower room will be done this weekend. 36 cxb 3590 (1800 watts) covering a 6ft x 8ft table.

Sweet ride, had a friend in my teens that had the Cougar with that 390 in it, it was auto from factory but he swapped it out for a 4 speed hurst shifter and that thing flew, beat the crap out of anything that challenged it. Sweet room setup too, will be on the lookout for a view of your grow, sounds awesome.