"If you do not believe in climate change, you should not be allowed to hold public office"

[Big_Lou]

I'm really looking forward to shredding your next post.

No need, man -- the failure does a more than adequate job all by himself! Try and read through just one of his 'posts' without laughing/wincing. I dare you.
lol

 

[Fogdog]

Climategate, the so called "cabal of scientists" most secretly colluding to...what? Destroy their careers by publishing fake science?

The e-mails -- thousands of them were combed through to find phrases out of context to somehow show collusion. It's a classic propaganda technique and it is effective in that people who want to believe in conspiracy theories get the fodder they like. And the fact is, you are an avid false conspiracy theorist. You are the perfect target for that kind of fakery.

Climate measurements and modeling is complex. Sometimes the scientists at the bleeding edge get it wrong. Sometimes they find errors in past measurements. These errors are published and made available for all to see. There is then hot debate within the community about why these errors occurred and what to do about them. The process is one of continual improvement and not perfect. That said, nothing has been found to disprove the basic fact that doubling carbon dioxide in the atmosphere causes Earth's surface temperatures to rise. With all the scrutiny given this issue, the basic physics of carbon dioxide's role in raising the earth's surface temperatures as a "greenhouse gas" remains unquestioned by anybody with a better education than a few classes in gun safety.

A climate model is not needed to show that the earth is warming. Glaciers are melting, animal and plant populations are migrating pole-ward and upward into regions they never occupied before. Low lying areas are flooding like never before due to sea level rise. Corals are bleaching due to warmer waters. Deep ocean methane hydride deposits are beginning to bubble off as those waters warm too. Also, permafrost layers are melting and causing havoc in settlments that were built upon a previously stable frozen layer. These and more observations are completely consistent with the temperature measurements and climate model that predict those same events. Nit picking a few measurement errors doesn't change these facts.

And so, false conspiracy theorists and an oil industry that as early as 1980 is on record as acknowledging their role in human caused climate change have to dig into hacked e-mails and stitch together phrases taken out of context to cast doubt on the work of professional scientists. Climategate is a hoax, not climate science.

Now about that completely misinformed truthy factoid about Arctic Sea Ice "become quite high"

First, the north or Arctic Sea Ice pack is SHRINKING. It's the Antarctic Sea Ice pack that has expanded at least in 2014 it did. Taken together the sea ice pack at the north and south poles has shrunk as a whole. So you are fundamentally wrong about this. Why am I not surprised?

But OK, maybe you just misspoke and meant Antarctic when you said Arctic. This is a laughable "conspiracy" theory because nobody is covering this fact up. Here is a link to what NASA said about it: https://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/antarctic-sea-ice-reaches-new-record-maximum . In the article they explain that the earth is a complex global system and they are working to understand what's going on. What they are doing to understand why the Antarctic ice pack is expanding is very interesting. I suggest you read the article to find out.

Doesn't change the basic fact that overall, sea ice coverage is shrinking. Or that warm climate mosquitoes have moved northward bringing with them disease and so forth.

 

[Fogdog]

Here is what one of the Climategate villain scientists has to say about what happened:

Trigger alert: What he says requires more than 10 seconds of concentration

 

[ttystikk]

I don't agree. First, I think we can make a safe reactor. Second, I think that the degradation of the environment is a real public health risk that kills thousands silently every year. Even in it's current state nuclear is a safer option.

Even gigawatts of solar will never contaminate the entire Pacific Ocean basin for centuries with radiation.

How do you propose to safely and permanently deal with extremely radioactive waste materials with half lives of ten thousand years?

Is running your screen saver worth THAT much?

 

[Fogdog]

No need, man -- the failure does a more than adequate job all by himself! Try and read through just one of his 'posts' without laughing/wincing. I dare you.
lol

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Actually, I've had more than a few good interactions with budman. He's definitely on the loony fringe when it comes to conspiracies and has some really strange religious beliefs. I don't recall reading where he's gone off the antisemitic deep end. I would have worse reservations about him if I had.

For me, when it comes to climate science denial, I'm not going to suffer fools silently. The damage the denial industry has done is intentional and criminal. Budman can wax on about the JFK or moon landing conspiracy without harm but the harm to people, cultures, plant and animal species and the welfare of future generations crosses the line of harmless crankery.

 

[Fogdog]

Even gigawatts of solar will never contaminate the entire Pacific Ocean basin for centuries with radiation.

How do you propose to safely and permanently deal with extremely radioactive waste materials with half lives of ten thousand years?

Is running your screen saver worth THAT much?

question, because I don't know and maybe you do: Is the manufacture of solar panels a green industry?

 

[ttystikk]

question, because I don't know and maybe you do: Is the manufacture of solar panels a green industry?

It could be but I'm going to remain on the conservative end and say probably not at the present time- especially considering how many of the panels are manufactured in China, a country not known for being green.

Once they're made, the carbon balance tips back for the operating life of the panel, since no fuel need to be burned for them to generate power.

How that carbon amortization schedule might work is not something I have data on but my best guess is that by the time their lifecycle savings are figured in, solar saves a lot more greenhouse gas and pollution than it caused to make them.

 

[SneekyNinja]

question, because I don't know and maybe you do: Is the manufacture of solar panels a green industry?

Compared to the energy they can put out, and considering you can then use the power they produce to produce more...

Sure they require raw materials but as a species we need energy from somewhere, may aswell use the reactor in the sky.

 

[ttystikk]

LOL, you are like that dog in the avatar...tail between the legs.

WTF does this even mean?

Clearly I was mistaken in treating you like a serious debate partner.

I'm sad for those who are so close minded that they routinely accept what biased interests tell them about the world and then only listen to 'facts' that support those views, even when there's a mountain of evidence disproving it.

@Fogdog is right; conspiracy theorists about the JFK assassination are harmless enough, but actively denying global warming and its threat to ruin our planet's habitability is dangerous to all. Even yourselves.

Look at your kids and ask yourself what the consequences might be if you're wrong.

Do you even own any stock in fossil fuels or attendant energy production? If not, you're just another sucker for the Charles & David Kochsmoker propaganda machine.

When I first heard about the potential for excess CO2 to damage the environment I too was skeptical. So you know what I did? I investigated it for myself and soon discovered the evidence and connections between fossil fuel use and global warming were incontrovertible.

Then I investigated why a little more CO2 would be bad instead of just growing plants better- and again found that the damage outweighs the benefits.

I could say that because I live in Colorado sea level rise isn't my problem and everyone who lives at the beach can suffer- but I chose not to be so blindly self serving.

What about you?

 

[Big_Lou]

Actually, I've had more than a few good interactions with budman. He's definitely on the loony fringe when it comes to conspiracies and has some really strange religious beliefs. I don't recall reading where he's gone off the antisemitic deep end. I would have worse reservations about him if I had.

Hmmm. I'd say that running around the site calling people "tal" (Talmud), not to mention his current avatar and 'Globalist Jew' memes, more than qualify him as lowlife trash. But whatever works for you, man.


This all seems to have started when he posted a nonsensical thread and I shredded/shamed him, prompting a meltdown/thread lock. Point out someone's obvious antisemitism/racism and they flip their shit; go figure, eh?

 

[budman111]

Hmmm. I'd say that running around the site calling people "tal" (Talmud), not to mention his current avatar and 'Globalist Jew' memes, more than qualify him as lowlife trash. But whatever works for you, man.

some really strange religious beliefs.

Yeah, me and Hillary go way back...

 

[budman111]

No need, man -- the failure does a more than adequate job all by himself! Try and read through just one of his 'posts' without laughing/wincing. I dare you.
lol

View attachment 3905924

See all your regular knob tweakers liked that post Tal!

 

[budman111]

Hmmm. I'd say that running around the site calling people "tal"

Quit patronizing them, they all know that is your 'other accounts'.

 

[ttystikk]

I am not the one seeking the truth here.

Well this explains everything about your attitude.

Go make shit up with your sycophants, then. Clearly you care nothing for truth but that's your problem, not ours.

 

[budman111]

Well this explains everything about your attitude.

Go make shit up with your sycophants, then. Clearly you care nothing for truth but that's your problem, not ours.

We went through this earlier, your mind going old man? lol jk.

 

[Fogdog]

Hmmm. I'd say that running around the site calling people "tal" (Talmud), not to mention his current avatar and 'Globalist Jew' memes, more than qualify him as lowlife trash. But whatever works for you, man.


This all seems to have started when he posted a nonsensical thread and I shredded/shamed him, prompting a meltdown/thread lock. Point out someone's obvious antisemitism/racism and they flip their shit; go figure, eh?

I hadn't seen it before. The Tal reference went right over my head. Until now, my interactions with Budman were respectful. But I agree with you that his shit has turned really sour.

budman lost it. It's what happens when connection with reality is shredded.

 

[budman111]

I hadn't seen it before. The Tal reference went right over my head. Until now, my interactions with Budman were respectful. But I agree with you that his shit has turned really sour.

budman lost it. It's what happens when connection with reality is shredded.

Yeah, 'you are a nazi, you are a white supremacist, go die' without knowing anything at all but it's acceptable is it. Probably where you are maybe. enjoy your toxic friends.

 

[Big_Lou]

Well this explains everything about your attitude.

Go make shit up with your sycophants, then. Clearly you care nothing for truth but that's your problem, not ours.

I hadn't seen it before. The Tal reference went right over my head. Until now, my interactions with Budman were respectful. But I agree with you that his shit has turned really sour.

budman lost it. It's what happens when connection with reality is shredded.

A backwards hick, conspiracy nut, uneducated moron, racist, AND an antisemite??
Wow, what are the odds.






LOL! Poor junkie's flipped his shit.....SAD.

 

[ttystikk]

We went through this earlier, your mind going old man? lol jk.

And we'll go through it again and again until you grow up or fuck off.

Your choice; science doesn't care what you believe.

 

[Fogdog]

Yeah, 'you are a nazi, you are a white supremacist, go die' without knowing anything at all but it's acceptable is it. Probably where you are maybe. enjoy your toxic friends.

dude, you've lost it. Completely. I haven't said any of those things to you. But, some things like hate speech are never funny. If you think it is then you fill a gap in your missing sense of humor with bigotry.

I liked you better when you posted shit about faked moon landings. Hate speech and repeating outright lies made up by big oil to keep the profits coming in are over the line. Harming people is never funny.