LED lighting and deficiencies

[DesertHydro]

what's up everyone? just trying to get an idea of a feed level you guys are using and seeing good results. im around 1.5 EC in base nutrient and still a bit light in color and MAG deficient. i was around 1.0-1.2 and they yellowed like no other. i think they are coming back slowly at the moment but i am still seeing new MAG def.

i am running jacks and calnit as well as calmag at ~3ml per gal, drip clean and mammoth p.
i think i am gonna bump up the calmag to ~5ml per gal and leave the base where it is and see what happens for now.

anyone running calmag and at what strength are you not seeing MAG deficiencies? i always kept my ec at 1.8 in my PPKs and never had any issues at all with HID. i think i may move up to that and see what happens. i am soon to be in a recirculating drip system with plenty of runoff i just need to finish up my drip system today. they are in rockwool cubes and chunks.

 

[Jeeyah]

I just went through the same thing. I hate trying to correct deficiencies. I've been using GH 6/9 for years. After getting into LED then COB, I starting having to add 3ml/gallon Calimagic. I usually add it when possible in veg. Then, stop around 2-3 weeks into bloom.

Well now after bringing Super Lemon Haze back it had rusty dying older leaves in bloom. The Somas Amnesia Haze is showing it too. But, not as bad. It's definitely confirmed a magnesium deficiency after putting another SLH into bloom. It start as loss of green between veins and then just curls up and dies all crunchy and brown. This is in coco.

Increased to 5ml/gallon Calimagic and added about 1/2 tsp/gallon epsom salt to the reservoir. Also added 1/2 tsp epsom salt to a quart sprayer and sprayed the foliage. I confirmed a mag deficiency. But, that doesn't mean that's going to fix it.

Thanks for starting this thread. I've been trying to come up with a better nutrient regimen. I feel COB increases photosynthesis which directly increases their nutrition requirements.

 

[DesertHydro]

i cant foliar since mine are 4+ weeks into flowering but i can in my veg guys. they didnt show signs of cal def. spots until about the fourth week. i hope the calmag a 5ml/g solves it. wouldnt wanna go too much higher than that but if it works it works. just gotta go slowly. soon i will have it dialed and kicking some major ass.

 

[captainmorgan]

It's not always upping your ppm's and can be ratios, most of the time more mag or cal/mag does it. All this is very strain dependent.

 

[DesertHydro]

wanted to get an update on how things are progressing. the yellowing has been progressing steadily so i upped the food. i have been running jacks and calnit and have never had to use a calmag supplement before. i think these LEDs have a definite learning curve. my ratios are spot on. i run one part A, to .67 part calnit. i started adding more than the recommended amount of cal mag as the rust spots were progressing rapidly. right now as of yesterday im at 1.2 ec of my base nutrients and then i add about 300ppm of calmag. i hope this will stop the progression. if not im at a loss.

heres a shot of whats going on as of a few days ago. the environment is healthy. chillin right around 80 with the lights on and about 74 with lights off. RH is around 55% most the time according to my meters.

 

[Jeeyah]

Hi,

I think that might be a calcium issue. Not sure if that's calcium. But, it doesn't look like a mag issue.

I'll post the mag deficiency I had. Classic. Increased the Calimagic slightly and addded 1/2 tsp epsom salt per gallon. You're on a different mix though. I'm doing KISS. I'll show the progression with a healthy leaf for reference. Hope this helps!

5ml Calimagic
1/2tsp Epsom salt
6ml micro
9ml bloom

 

[DesertHydro]

will you guys post up your KISS nutrient schedules? ive got some strains that arent showing much signs of it and others that are still progressing. i dont wanna go too much higher on my ec/ppm. its not the end of the world anyways. i start flushing in a week. next round i will hit them hard with the nutrients from the get go and see if it still happens. from there i will have to decide if i switch nutrients or if its something else doing it.

 

[VegasWinner]

have you tried diamond nectar to increase uptake of cal/mag and other essential nutrients?

 

[MrTwist1]

OP I've read that the ratios of Cal and Mag are important too. If you're using a CalMag supplement then the ratios should in theory already be optimal, but it's something to think about. I noticed Medgrower1 is having similar issues too after switching one tray to COB LED and he has just upped his CalMag to 8ml/gallon to deal with it. Also maybe look at @Greengenes707 he is running full COB setups with Jack's and CalNit and he has got it dialled.

 

[sethimus]

will you guys post up your KISS nutrient schedules? ive got some strains that arent showing much signs of it and others that are still progressing. i dont wanna go too much higher on my ec/ppm. its not the end of the world anyways. i start flushing in a week. next round i will hit them hard with the nutrients from the get go and see if it still happens. from there i will have to decide if i switch nutrients or if its something else doing it.

5g universol blue, 2g epsom salts (veg and early flower)
5g universol blue, 2g epsom salts, 3g monopotassiumphosphate (bloom)

per 10l of water

i'm on coco and harder water (0.7 EC) with about 100ppm Ca so i dont need an extra calcium source

with my water i'm getting these ratios:

90-25-80-35-100 N-P-K-Mg-Ca in veg/early flower and
90-90-165-35-100 in bloom

 

[Yodaweed]

when plants get improper spectrum they develop deficiencies, if you use a blurple light this will be magnified. LEDs are not full spectrum , none of them , this is what happens.

 

[linky]

I run a mix of hps, cobs and cmh in my flower room.. the best looking plants in the room are under the 630 watt de cmh lights.. they are so green and beautiful looking, even strains that struggle a little under the cobs just look amazing under cmh. Everything else looks good as well but not as nice and lush as the ones under the cmh.. I think spectrum may have something to do with it. I also get calcium and/or magnesium deficiencies under my cob fixtures (not all strains), I have been adding calmag plus and epsom salt to those reses, still trying to dial it in. It is strain dependent as well, I have a few strains that seem to want a ton of cal/mag and others are fine with just a little.

Ohh wanted to add I run approx ~800 ppm under the cmh and 900-950 ppm under the cobs. I have to up the nutes under the cobs, as I think they do want more nutrients with the more photons they are receiving. This also varies a little by strain.

 

[DesertHydro]

so im gonna go back to the jacks 321 but im upping the strength to 4.2/2.8/1.4
gonna see how that treats me on the new run. i may switch to CMH for veg and flower under the COBs

 

[DesertHydro]

let's keep this thread up and current because this seems to be an issue that most are having. if someone solves the puzzle be sure and share the knowledge

 

[Sureshot2]

Had this issue with the last grow I did with my new cob fixture I made. I suspected a calcium issue as well but adding more calmag and foliar feeding didn't do anything to touch it. By the time it was too late someone suggested that it was possibly too much calcium locking out other nutes from me adding 5-7ml per gallon on tap water. Fwiw my tap water has around 35-50 ppm of calcium already in it and I never used calmag before, I only added it with the cobs because I was told to start adding it or I would face "definite calmag issues later on" if I didn't.

 

[linky]

Had this issue with the last grow I did with my new cob fixture I made. I suspected a calcium issue as well but adding more calmag and foliar feeding didn't do anything to touch it. By the time it was too late someone suggested that it was possibly too much calcium locking out other nutes from me adding 5-7ml per gallon on tap water. Fwiw my tap water has around 35-50 ppm of calcium already in it and I never used calmag before, I only added it with the cobs because I was told to start adding it or I would face "definite calmag issues later on" if I didn't.

5-7 ml a gallon seems like a lot to me, especially with tap. I am using ro water with canna coco line and I use 2 to 4 ml a gal of calmag.

 

[cdgmoney250]

when plants get improper spectrum they develop deficiencies, if you use a blurple light this will be magnified. LEDs are not full spectrum , none of them , this is what happens.

What exactly do you consider "full spectrum"? And why?

 

[Yodaweed]

What exactly do you consider "full spectrum"? And why?

A light similar to the sun is full spectrum, and that includes UV light. I also believe since LEDs make light differently than HID lights they will never be able to mimic sun light effectively (the sun is a burning ball of gas)

 

[rkymtnman]

A light similar to the sun is full spectrum, and that includes UV light. I also believe since LEDs make light differently than HID lights they will never be able to mimic sun light effectively (the sun is a burning ball of gas)

i kinda thought plasma lights were going to be the next big thing but they kinda fizzled out. wonder why?

 

[cdgmoney250]

A light similar to the sun is full spectrum, and that includes UV light. I also believe since LEDs make light differently than HID lights they will never be able to mimic sun light effectively (the sun is a burning ball of gas)

I agree that HID tech has the potential to offer a fuller spectrum, but HPS spectrum is no better than warm white phosphor LED's and people can grow healthy plants without deficiencies using either technology. So I'm not entirely convinced that lighting alone, will cause deficiencies. It may be a factor, but one of many and seemingly not the most important.