base soil for organic no till

[rollangrow]

Idk how (advanced) this is i got it in general growing but need some more input.. So this is my second grow outdoor first time with photoperiod, i had a issue last year with my soil were it kinda turned to concrete in my pots (really didnt do much research) it was just eco scraps soil and peat moss... so this year im stepping my game up im doing 45 gallon air pots with organic living soil my BASE SOIL MIX is going to be

11cu ft horse compost-
15.2cu ft pro mix bx
7cu ft rice hulls an some? lava rock

NUTRIENTS
Down To Earth Alfalfa Meal,
Espoma GG6 Garden Gypsum,
Down To Earth Kelp Meal,
Down To Earth Neem Seed Meal,
Root Naturally Azomite Rock Dust,
Down To Earth Crab Meal,
Down To Earth Fish Bone Meal

was shooting for 1.1.1 ratio but another bag of rice hulls was going to cost $40 shipping so i figure the perlite in the pro mix will help equal out the differents. the horse manure/bedding compost has been broke down over years. IM trying to build the best soil i can with what i have ANY help is appreciated...

 

[kratos015]

Rice hulls are great if you aren't running no-till. If you do plan on no-till, I recommend lava rock or pumice instead of rice hulls as they won't decompose on you.

If you have a Lowes or Home Depot nearby they sell both Peat Moss and lava rock. 3cuft compressed bale is $15 out the door and lava rocks $5 per .5 cuft, can be had cheaper at a landscaping place. Make your own ProMix! Two compressed 3cuft should expand to around 11-12 cuft, perfect for the compost you've got.

Definitely don't skimp on aeration or you're gonna have a bad time. Amazon sells 4cuft bags of perlite for $40-$50, lava rocks will cost roughly the same amount.

Also, no need to buy the Alfalfa or Fish Bone Meal, the Crab/Neem/Kelp will be more than enough. If you're compost is as wonderful as you make it sound, crab/neem/kelp will be all you need as your compost will be doing most of the work here. Just provide your compost with equal parts peat moss and lava rock/pumice/perlite and amend with those 3 amendments and you're golden. Top dress with those 3 once a month, every 3 weeks if needed for heavy feeders.

As for your minerals, grab some Oyster Shell Flour and Basalt instead of the Azomite. Gypsum is incredible though, keep that for sure. The OSF will buffer the pH of your peat moss as well as provide calcium and other minerals, the basalt is a source of sulfer and silica if I'm not mistaken.

For every 1cuft of base soil I use 1 cup OSF, 1 cup Gypsum, and 2 cups Basalt. So 4 cups of minerals per 1cuft of base soil in total.

Looking good otherwise though. If you do the above then your soil will be even better for sure and you'll fall in love. I can't describe how wonderful it is to be able to just have the medium/pot part of the equation constantly figured out. After I harvest, I start new clones in the same pots as soon as possible so I can keep the soil going. Just keep top dressing it and providing water and it'll last you a long time.

Hope this helped.

 

[CaptainSnap]

Very informative Kratos! Just an FYI rollngrow there is a whole section for organic gardens that is full of information your looking for and probably very helpful! Check it out.....

http://rollitup.org/f/organics.59/

 

[rollangrow]

Rice hulls are great if you aren't running no-till. If you do plan on no-till, I recommend lava rock or pumice instead of rice hulls as they won't decompose on you.
Hope this helped.

thanks for your help, i am doing no till but i heard that perlite brakes down (maybe it takes longer) and turns to sand an settles in the bottom of your pot then turns in to sold chunk... i will be using lava rock, already bought all the nutes so guess my soil will have some extra goodies! and i planed on top dressing with the kelp and then im planing on buying corn seed germinating it blending it and doing seed/enzyme tea.

 

[rollangrow]

Very informative Kratos! Just an FYI rollngrow there is a whole section for organic gardens that is full of information your looking for and probably very helpful! Check it out.....

http://rollitup.org/f/organics.59/

I know, i dont have a clue why i didnt i have posted their b4 guess i just didn't think about it..

 

[rollangrow]

Also if i were to make my own pro mix the cos would be about the same 3.8 cu ft bale is $40 ...$30 for peat $50 for perlite
And if you were interested doing nirvana's wounder woman.

 

[kratos015]

thanks for your help, i am doing no till but i heard that perlite brakes down (maybe it takes longer) and turns to sand an settles in the bottom of your pot then turns in to sold chunk... i will be using lava rock, already bought all the nutes so guess my soil will have some extra goodies! and i planed on top dressing with the kelp and then im planing on buying corn seed germinating it blending it and doing seed/enzyme tea.

If you already have them then may as well use them I suppose, just be cautious as both fish bone meal and alfalfa meal break down and decompose rather quickly and you'll likely have to let your soil "cook" for a few weeks if you choose to implement these amendments. Temperatures from the decomposition process can reach up to 190F+ and that is definitely not something you want happening to your roots.

The main reason I shy away from guano, fish/blood meals, and alfalfa/cottonseed meals is because they break down incredibly fast where as the crab and neem take more time to break down and thus don't get as "hot" as the formerly listed ingredients do. Alfalfa meal especially as you can overdo things with alfalfa meal and cause lots of problems.

Hope things go well.

 

[rollangrow]

ya im cooking for a month, when its cooking do i need to turn it at all or just leave in a pile?

 

[GoRealUhGro]

Like they said above.. If u already have them.. Id use them... Mabey experiment in a couple diff pots with ur mix.. U never know it might be better for u... But what most are saying seems like good advice to me... If u plan on doing a not till outdoors.. You might have to reamend them after a long outdoor grow.. So its not really a no till.. I guess u could top dress but man its way better imo to have it in the soil already... If u do it that way.. Which is the way i do it... You can use ur hulls.. Although not the best for long term.. But hey they wont go to waste... Im kinda doing research on how much to reamend after the season.. Some ppl don't for a couple few yrs.. But they top dress more... Some ppl reamend every yr.. Just maybe not as much... Id just reamend myself if thats not to big of an inconvenience for u... If u don't wanna buy aeration this yr.. Go find a very rotten old log... The kind that will be all wet and shot after a rain inside.... Wait till its dry and go collect it for aeration.. I loovve it.. Roots do too.. Grow right into em... I charge mine w rabbit poo and kelp meal in a tea... But id say ur mix will kick ass for u man... Outside ull need to top dress a couple times most likey.. So if u choose not to use some of that stuff u can use it later when or if needed.. Get a few soluble quick release top dress handy... If u choose to go no till def get some lava rocks... And it kinda sounds like the reason ur soil got all hard is cause it wasnt aerated well.. Maybe... I honestly make areation my bulk over soil and compost...not a whole lot more but its not an even 33/33/33.. ...drainage is supeerrr important man.. And another lil bit of info... I started my plants on mid to early march... It wouldn't of mattered if i started them in late april tbh.. And i was in 45 and 100 gal pots... If u grow well.. Water right.. And take care of ur girls.. They will be rootbound af... Im not starting mine ill mid or late april..but if they get too big ima cut the smart pots and ground em.... Mine were literally grown in the ground so bad i couldn't move them... Had to get Ray Lewis on em...that areation lete those roots go all over and the plant blows up.. And imo u had a better mix than i did at the time.. I was ff moonshine mix.. I modified it and fed a lot though.....oh. and u can make a foilar feed outs that alfalfa if u dont use it too..

 

[GoRealUhGro]

Oh.. And that azomite.. Idk man.. I know its a good mineral.. But all those metals.. Def dont skip out on minerals man... Id go w greensand or langdbeinite, gypsum, basalt, granite... Some or all of those

 

[kratos015]

ya im cooking for a month, when its cooking do i need to turn it at all or just leave in a pile?

You need to turn it as often as possible, at least once a day if you can. Otherwise anaerobic bacteria will take over and make things go sour (although you can recover from this should it happen). Keep things moist, but not wet, and turn the pile once a day to provide air. Do that for 3-4 weeks and you should be golden.

Oh.. And that azomite.. Idk man.. I know its a good mineral.. But all those metals.. Def dont skip out on minerals man... Id go w greensand or langdbeinite, gypsum, basalt, granite... Some or all of those

I used to use Azomite when I first started, but I haven't for a while now. Stopped using it in favor of the gypsum, basalt, OSF mixture as that combined with crab/kelp meal provides me with everything I need. Kelp Meal has a TON of minerals in it. I've heard people say that Azomite contains fluoride and lead, but no idea how much truth there is to that. With all that being said, Azomite is a hell of a lot better than nothing.

 

[GoRealUhGro]

You need to turn it as often as possible, at least once a day if you can. Otherwise anaerobic bacteria will take over and make things go sour (although you can recover from this should it happen). Keep things moist, but not wet, and turn the pile once a day to provide air. Do that for 3-4 weeks and you should be golden.




I used to use Azomite when I first started, but I haven't for a while now. Stopped using it in favor of the gypsum, basalt, OSF mixture as that combined with crab/kelp meal provides me with everything I need. Kelp Meal has a TON of minerals in it. I've heard people say that Azomite contains fluoride and lead, but no idea how much truth there is to that. With all that being said, Azomite is a hell of a lot better than nothing.

Totally agreed man.. Idk im not a great person for remembering shit but i think kelp has 72 or some ofd number of nutes and min in it.. Its like fucking a super anti disease and vitimal for plants... Iv literally top dressed w it idk how many times when my plants were looking on the bad side and poof.. Not always though... But its killer shit... Iv never used neem but man i cant wait.. That stuff sounds amazing... And w the npk on the langbeinite u might need to cut back on something.. Idk i already forgot the mix lol.. Told u i had a bad memory

 

[GoRealUhGro]

Iv never turned my soil when cooking though man.. Put it in plastic garbage can w holes... Hell its actually good to let it cook right in the smart pots ur gonna use..creates that oh so coveted food web we don't wanna destroy.. Keep it moist and u should be gold..itll get nice white mycelium fungus on it.. Which is good

 

[kratos015]

Totally agreed man.. Idk im not a great person for remembering shit but i think kelp has 72 or some ofd number of nutes and min in it.. Its like fucking a super anti disease and vitimal for plants... Iv literally top dressed w it idk how many times when my plants were looking on the bad side and poof.. Not always though... But its killer shit... Iv never used neem but man i cant wait.. That stuff sounds amazing... And w the npk on the langbeinite u might need to cut back on something.. Idk i already forgot the mix lol.. Told u i had a bad memory

I've done nothing but top dress with kelp/crab/neem meals since I originally mixed the soil with them around 14 months ago and the results speak for themselves. Neem is great stuff, highly recommend incorporating it into your mix if you haven't already. Langbeinite is pretty much sulfer, potassium, and magnesium though. As you pointed out, don't add things like Langbeinite unless you know for sure your soil needs the extra minerals it provides. If you already have lots of potassium in your soil, you'll likely want to find other sources of sulfer and magnesium to avoid excess levels of potassium. And so forth.

Gotta say though, I love your idea of cooking the soil in smart pots. Never thought of that. Assuming you don't over water them that's actually perfect, just like how people use the smart pots for worm bins. Learn something new every day!

 

[GoRealUhGro]

I've done nothing but top dress with kelp/crab/neem meals since I originally mixed the soil with them around 14 months ago and the results speak for themselves. Neem is great stuff, highly recommend incorporating it into your mix if you haven't already. Langbeinite is pretty much sulfer, potassium, and magnesium though. As you pointed out, don't add things like Langbeinite unless you know for sure your soil needs the extra minerals it provides. If you already have lots of potassium in your soil, you'll likely want to find other sources of sulfer and magnesium to avoid excess levels of potassium. And so forth.

Gotta say though, I love your idea of cooking the soil in smart pots. Never thought of that. Assuming you don't over water them that's actually perfect, just like how people use the smart pots for worm bins. Learn something new every day!

Hey i can say iv thought about it and i didnt see why it wouldnt make sense.. And good sense... But i had to ask my dope growing consultant @ greasemonkeymann lol.. I miss him.. I was gone for awhile so idk what happend to him.. But i asked him if it would be ok awhile back and he said that's exactly how it does it... Getting your microbes building their lil micro habits nd creating that web takes a min.. So i thought cooking right in the pot i was gonna plant in would be best..ya know.. And i have to say.. It is... They just go to fn town... Try it my man.. Do a comparison.. I bet money.. Lol i shouldnt bet cause i loose a lot.. But i bet if u let that soil cook and set in ur smart pots for about 3 4 weeks compaired to mixed up soil u just put in a pot.. Ull see wayy better growth off the bat in the sp

 

[rollangrow]

Like they said above.. If u already have them.. Id use them... Mabey experiment in a couple diff pots with ur mix.. U never know it might be better for u... But what most are saying seems like good advice to me... If u plan on doing a not till outdoors.. You might have to reamend them after a long outdoor grow.. So its not really a no till.. I guess u could top dress but man its way better imo to have it in the soil already... If u do it that way.. Which is the way i do it... You can use ur hulls.. Although not the best for long term.. But hey they wont go to waste... Im kinda doing research on how much to reamend after the season.. Some ppl don't for a couple few yrs.. But they top dress more... Some ppl reamend every yr.. Just maybe not as much... Id just reamend myself if thats not to big of an inconvenience for u... If u don't wanna buy aeration this yr.. Go find a very rotten old log... The kind that will be all wet and shot after a rain inside.... Wait till its dry and go collect it for aeration.. I loovve it.. Roots do too.. Grow right into em... I charge mine w rabbit poo and kelp meal in a tea... But id say ur mix will kick ass for u man... Outside ull need to top dress a couple times most likey.. So if u choose not to use some of that stuff u can use it later when or if needed.. Get a few soluble quick release top dress handy... If u choose to go no till def get some lava rocks... And it kinda sounds like the reason ur soil got all hard is cause it wasnt aerated well.. Maybe... I honestly make areation my bulk over soil and compost...not a whole lot more but its not an even 33/33/33.. ...drainage is supeerrr important man.. And another lil bit of info... I started my plants on mid to early march... It wouldn't of mattered if i started them in late april tbh.. And i was in 45 and 100 gal pots... If u grow well.. Water right.. And take care of ur girls.. They will be rootbound af... Im not starting mine ill mid or late april..but if they get too big ima cut the smart pots and ground em.... Mine were literally grown in the ground so bad i couldn't move them... Had to get Ray Lewis on em...that areation lete those roots go all over and the plant blows up.. And imo u had a better mix than i did at the time.. I was ff moonshine mix.. I modified it and fed a lot though.....oh. and u can make a foilar feed outs that alfalfa if u dont use it too..

ya i thought about them getting root bound but figured the smart pots would help some and if they do get bound ill just have to water more often. im gorilla growing and these 45 gal are already a bit scetch lol. only reason im not putting them in ground is i live near a river in very hilly area LOTS of rock cant really dig an not many good spots to choose from...

 

[GoRealUhGro]

I would make a mix similar to this for starts and solos.... 40 50% areation... Gey those roots going good... 20 %compost, 30% promix, id def use some kelp meal and a lil minerals... Id say that will get u going good.. Take em out and toss some soluble micro on em now and again.

 

[rollangrow]

Hey i can say iv thought about it and i didnt see why it wouldnt make sense.. And good sense... But i had to ask my dope growing consultant @ greasemonkeymann lol.. I miss him.. I was gone for awhile so idk what happend to him.. But i asked him if it would be ok awhile back and he said that's exactly how it does it... Getting your microbes building their lil micro habits nd creating that web takes a min.. So i thought cooking right in the pot i was gonna plant in would be best..ya know.. And i have to say.. It is... They just go to fn town... Try it my man.. Do a comparison.. I bet money.. Lol i shouldnt bet cause i loose a lot.. But i bet if u let that soil cook and set in ur smart pots for about 3 4 weeks compaired to mixed up soil u just put in a pot.. Ull see wayy better growth off the bat in the sp

im definitely doing this brilliant idea

 

[GoRealUhGro]

ya i thought about them getting root bound but figured the smart pots would help some and if they do get bound ill just have to water more often. im gorilla growing and these 45 gal are already a bit scetch lol. only reason im not putting them in ground is i live near a river in very hilly area LOTS of rock cant really dig an not many good spots to choose from...

As my name says.. Im a go real uh gro err as well lol... All of mine are man.... That water more mentalily isnt the way to go.. Im def not being a cock suck either... I told u abput the root bound deal cause ur HARVEST will suffer... You will have huge ass plants and they wont throw those huge ass buds cuz...here is another thing to think on.. Ur doing gorilla... U dont want to be therr more than needed... Packing water in everyday.. And when its hot w sp and being rootbound ull be doing it everyday..
Your upping the chances of gettin popped bro... They will get just as big if u do them in mayish... If u know what's up...and its not that hard... Mine were growing inches a day.. Then. ..poof.. They quit.. They went like a foot in a month... And they have did that in like 1.5 2 weeks.... They did stretch but not like i wanted.. Ur def gonna need to cage man... ..itll boost up those yields like crazy too... But im just trying to help.. I wish i would of put mine in later than i did.. My avatar is my 100 gal pot.. It was taken in mid july... And it was already bound af and had been

 

[GoRealUhGro]

im definitely doing this brilliant idea

Just mix the funk outa your soil.. Get every lil crumb u can on the soil... Toss a lil in.. Mix till its gone.. Toss some more.. Repeat.. I never toss all my shit in then mix.. I feel like im not getting the mix.. mixed! Lol well enough... I mix small batches in a pool by hand.. Then put it in the sp. Repeate till full i usually set me a pot the same size as the one i have my gurl in right in the middle.. Helps not to break up the web... Lol idk if it does but think about it.. It has to, right?..plus its just smart