ShLUbY's Garden

[ShLUbY]

put my thinking cap on.... just rinsed a bunch of peat for the acidity and watered that into my no tills that are experiencing high pH. so technically... i just pH'ed my water... good grief what is the world coming to?!?! my hypothesis is that my peat has lost its acidity over time, since these mixes are so heavily recycled... it's been neutralized! sooo... gonna try a few of these peat extract teas (lol trying to make myself feel better about it )... and just see how that affects the acidity. don't have time to wait on the sulfur to start working. also trying it in a couple pots that didn't get sulfur as they had high pH when i checked them today (7.4!!!) so that's the plan for now!

 

[SSGrower]

put my thinking cap on.... just rinsed a bunch of peat for the acidity and watered that into my no tills that are experiencing high pH. so technically... i just pH'ed my water... good grief what is the world coming to?!?! my hypothesis is that my peat has lost its acidity over time, since these mixes are so heavily recycled... it's been neutralized! sooo... gonna try a few of these peat extract teas (lol trying to make myself feel better about it )... and just see how that affects the acidity. don't have time to wait on the sulfur to start working. also trying it in a couple pots that didn't get sulfur as they had high pH when i checked them today (7.4!!!) so that's the plan for now!

Glad you are workimg on this. Take this how you will but you have a young mind, it is flexible, take advantage of that.

Issue with pH is it is dependant on the total number of ions. You know, I am sure, the pH of distilled water is much more sensitive to adjustment the that of tap water or a nutrient mix. Since there is a focus on sustainability with your objective and reuse being a key component but you are correct in IMO that frsh peat is a buffer to a slightly higher pH. TBH want is you to focus on how to optimize the natureal pH swings with the nutrional needs of the plant.

Been drinkin a bit so not of the clearest minfdset and I tend to be a asshole when sober.

Edit, proof I been drinkin, lower pH, higher acidity

 

[ShLUbY]

Glad you are workimg on this. Take this how you will but you have a young mind, it is flexible, take advantage of that.

Issue with pH is it is dependant on the total number of ions. You know, I am sure, the pH of distilled water is much more sensitive to adjustment the that of tap water or a nutrient mix. Since there is a focus on sustainability with your objective and reuse being a key component but you are correct in IMO that frsh peat is a buffer to a slightly higher pH. TBH want is you to focus on how to optimize the natureal pH swings with the nutrional needs of the plant.

Been drinkin a bit so not of the clearest minfdset and I tend to be a asshole when sober.

Edit, proof I been drinkin, lower pH, higher acidity

well theoretically, the plant will take care of the natural pH swings itself. But I am definitely seeing that a medium above 7 pH is really reducing output (productivity) by a lot. so... we'll see what happens with me dumping a bunch of protons into the medium over the next few days. i'll check the pH again on sunday and see if that had ANY affect whatsoever. hoping to at least see a slight change... will continue this venture for the time being. if i don't notice any change in the pH by the time this run is done, i'm going to assume that my peat has neutralized, and is basically compost at this point. If that continues, i'll empty the no till, add peat and drainage, and amend like a fresh mix and start over

 

[SSGrower]

well theoretically, the plant will take care of the natural pH swings itself. But I am definitely seeing that a medium above 7 pH is really reducing output (productivity) by a lot. so... we'll see what happens with me dumping a bunch of protons into the medium over the next few days. i'll check the pH again on sunday and see if that had ANY affect whatsoever. hoping to at least see a slight change... will continue this venture for the time being. if i don't notice any change in the pH by the time this run is done, i'm going to assume that my peat has neutralized, and is basically compost at this point. If that continues, i'll empty the no till, add peat and drainage, and amend like a fresh mix and start over

Everything I type as a suggestion seems so basic when I read it back. The only thing I can say is sustainability is hard.

 

[calliandra]

Woa, mad scientist stuff going on here
I wish I could help, but I'm still pursuing the "it shouldn't take much at all" line of thought
Good luck on your quest!

 

[ShLUbY]

Woa, mad scientist stuff going on here
I wish I could help, but I'm still pursuing the "it shouldn't take much at all" line of thought
Good luck on your quest!

thanks. i have a hunch that I'm correct in thinking my peat has been neutralized.... i guess i'll find out on a fresh mix with the next run. I have that pre 98 bubba in a 7 gal now with brand new soil. can't believe how quick that thing is vegging. it lasted two weeks in the 1 gal sip LOL. i'll be flipping her on the 23rd most likely.

 

[kratos015]

I had an interesting discovery today. I've noticed my recent batch of plants in flower has stalled out after 3.5 weeks (they are like 5.5 now). They still look amazing and are frosting up like no other, but flower production is not progressing like what it should be. So I got my trusty Bluelab soil pH pen out... and both my no-tills are sittin at 7.3-7.5 in multiple testing sites. this was about 2 hours after a watering, so that should be the ideal time to test the pH (I would think). I had some elemental sulfur prills laying around from the sulfur burner (says soil sulfur right on the package). I found an agricultural institution page and they recommended a dosage per sq. ft. so I worked that out to approximately the size of my no till and figured out its about 1 oz. of sulfur to increase acidity by .5 . I went with about 3/4 of the application rate I figured out. I'm going to give it til the end of the weekend and test again and see what the meter reads. I have a feeling that the slightly alkaline soil is the reason for my stunted flower production. @DonTesla any ideas?

SO this has me wondering... I wonder if the worms have in some way neutralized the acidity of the peat from composting it... but then I think no they're not really divers so the lower portion of the peat should still be peat. So that has me wondering if I just have too much Ca++ in the soil (which seems weird being that I don't topdress much calcium other than crab shell, very little oyster shell in these no-tills), and the soil is staying slightly alkaline. I was considering sending this soil in for a test after this run just to get an idea of what exactly is going on in there so I can adjust my methods.

I also have some topdressing experiments going on with the 3 con cheese in the 5 gal SIPs that are in flower. they're about 11 days, i topdressed some compost and ferts. in one, i used 5 TBSP of bloom mix (a stand alone bloom), 1 TBSP of frass, and 2 TBSP of rock dust. In another i used 2 TBSP bio-live, 2 TBSP crab shell, 4 TBSP kelp, 1 TBSP fishbone meal, 1 TBSP frass, 2 TBSP oyster shell and 2 TBSP rock dust. and in the last one, i kinda made a blend of everything and thus a slightly heavier dose. I figured I'd see what individual mix performed better between the two, and the third being kind of a comparison control and just seeing how hard i can push them. I will be checking the pH of these containers next weekend to make sure they are staying slightly acidic.

What kind of water are you using? Recently solved this issue with my no-till pots and I was struggling for a while. I'm on well water, lots of calcium in it to the point you see scaling on faucets and so forth. That scaling is essentially salt build up, and eventually the Ca build up becomes salts that choke out your roots, raise your pH (lime is pretty much Calcium), and screw with water intake. I use OSF and Crab Shell too, so the excess calcium in the well water was an issue for me. Haven't had any issues since switching to RO water from water machines. I'm pretty sure peat never loses it's acidity until it's fully decomposed, at which point it's compost and not peat anymore, so no acidity.

Not sure what water you're using, but I had literally the exact symptoms you have. No till pH sitting at 7.5+, stunting around week 3-4 of flower, and lots of random signs of deficiencies and toxicity.

 

[ShLUbY]

What kind of water are you using? Recently solved this issue with my no-till pots and I was struggling for a while. I'm on well water, lots of calcium in it to the point you see scaling on faucets and so forth. That scaling is essentially salt build up, and eventually the Ca build up becomes salts that choke out your roots, raise your pH (lime is pretty much Calcium), and screw with water intake. I use OSF and Crab Shell too, so the excess calcium in the well water was an issue for me. Haven't had any issues since switching to RO water from water machines. I'm pretty sure peat never loses it's acidity until it's fully decomposed, at which point it's compost and not peat anymore, so no acidity.

Not sure what water you're using, but I had literally the exact symptoms you have. No till pH sitting at 7.5+, stunting around week 3-4 of flower, and lots of random signs of deficiencies and toxicity.

been using RO the whole time man. the thing is... my plants look awesome... the only def. i'm seeing is that there is not enough bud production. Which I think is weird because I would think with pH over 7, that I'd be seeing def. of metals like Fe and what not... and yellow chlorotic new growth. but the plants look fine, which is annoying to say the least!

that's why i think my peat is basically compost now. it should be acidifying the mix.... so we'll see with this new run of soil i have... thinking about sending in the no-till soil for a test. I've had this mix in this no-til for about a year, and was recycyling it for almost a year before that. So i'm curious if it's lost it's lost its acidity over that period of time.

the only other thing i can think of it being is that it's possibly been too cold down there. I haven't run a heater during the winter, just the house furnace. and i'm on a constant air exchange room (which i'm working on messing with this year).

 

[SSGrower]

Honestly I'm beginning to think anything below 68 at night is too cool. Specially when pushing the gas pedal all day long.

 

[ShLUbY]

Honestly I'm beginning to think anything below 68 at night is too cool. Specially when pushing the gas pedal all day long.

yeah for sure man. i think my night temps were too low. was getting 60-62 pretty frequently. The colder it is, the slower metabolism is, as well as enzymatic processes. Cold water does hold good O2 though It just boiled down to the fact that I didn't have the $ to make the changes yet. i'll be more prepared next year But still my soil pH should not be 7.3-7.5.... something is going on with the mix so first I'm going to solve that issue.

Looking forward though, I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do this summer for AC. been looking at a bunch of schematics to figure out how little i can exhaust my room per min or hour so I don't suck out all the cold air. it's either that, or I'm going to switch to a sealed room. I have the CO2 tank and regulator already, I just need the sentinal controller... but that's another 500$ I won't have for a while yet (still gotta get a new AC, and gonna try and get my ideal air repaired as a backup which would be sweet cause they already refunded the money I paid for it when it died after 2 mo. of use). I figure a tank of CO2 should last a while running it at 400-450 ppm for my setup size as it is right now. hoping I won't have to refill it every week. But before I can make that switch, i first need to spend some time insulating the room, which means tearing down all the panda film, and getting poly-shield installed. Big changes coming up for this year . Very excited!

 

[SSGrower]

Some things to consider if not already. In the interim use a timer and calculate how long co2 needs to run based in room size, but unless you have a sealed high effeciency furnace with its own air intake isolated from the garden much of that co2 will go up and ou the furnace even when it is not on. Isolating or building rooms to isolate the garden from the furnace, tents maybe?

Run lights at night or shift to mostly night but this almost requires you to be a night owl or early bird to keep up with what needs done though. I hated this aproach and dont recommend unless willing and able to make the lifestyle switch.

I'm excited to watch.

 

[ShLUbY]

Some things to consider if not already. In the interim use a timer and calculate how long co2 needs to run based in room size, but unless you have a sealed high effeciency furnace with its own air intake isolated from the garden much of that co2 will go up and ou the furnace even when it is not on. Isolating or building rooms to isolate the garden from the furnace, tents maybe?

Run lights at night or shift to mostly night but this almost requires you to be a night owl or early bird to keep up with what needs done though. I hated this aproach and dont recommend unless willing and able to make the lifestyle switch.

I'm excited to watch.

well to look into the CO2.... i'd need a monitor of some sort, which i don't have. So that will be a difficult task . With the room potentially going sealed, i wouldn't do it without all components necessary to control room environment and will have them hooked up to a controller. So for now... it's gonna remain a constant exchange system. I was trying to find just a CO2 monitor/detector device just for curiosity on how quick 12 plants can deplete CO2 levels in the room... but there doesn't seem to be a "cheaper" reliable device for that from what I saw online. I could have missed it though.

I have had the lights set up at night before, but i've grown to dislike that approach because of the reasons you have stated I like to work during the day, so night shift is currently off the table lol. Although, it does help out with heat in winter and in summer. Just can be such a PITA.

 

[SSGrower]

well to look into the CO2.... i'd need a monitor of some sort, which i don't have. So that will be a difficult task . With the room potentially going sealed, i wouldn't do it without all components necessary to control room environment and will have them hooked up to a controller. So for now... it's gonna remain a constant exchange system. I was trying to find just a CO2 monitor/detector device just for curiosity on how quick 12 plants can deplete CO2 levels in the room... but there doesn't seem to be a "cheaper" reliable device for that from what I saw online. I could have missed it though.

I have had the lights set up at night before, but i've grown to dislike that approach because of the reasons you have stated I like to work during the day, so night shift is currently off the table lol. Although, it does help out with heat in winter and in summer. Just can be such a PITA.

If you are just looking at collecting baseline data maybe consider colormetric tubes. Tubes get expensive 80 bucks or so for a dozen or so. So 2 boxes of tubes for the cost of a "cheap" monitor. The 60 dollar arduino sensor is crap, thers a 100 dollar one I got my eye on.

 

[ShLUbY]

If you are just looking at collecting baseline data maybe consider colormetric tubes. Tubes get expensive 80 bucks or so for a dozen or so. So 2 boxes of tubes for the cost of a "cheap" monitor. The 60 dollar arduino sensor is crap, thers a 100 dollar one I got my eye on.

yeah i'll just save the money and buy a controller if i decide to go sealed lol.

 

[SSGrower]

Yeah, the controler is the right tool for the job. If you want to pound a square peg into a round hole the arduino will suffice.

 

[SSGrower]

Went to the hydro store yesterday, picked up some OS and blood meal. I realize blood meal kind of a non sustainable thing because of the industry but Id rather they turn it into fertilizer than waste it, I look at animal manure the same way. Anyway, couldnt hold back the snicker when the guy said we dont cary straight peat cause its not a renewable resource. He said "What?", I said hang on a sec, grabbed a bag of pro mix and ewc, recturned to chek out and said "been wanting to try this peat anyway, and I think if your business model was renewability and sustainability you would have a lot fewer bottles of water for sale".

 

[ShLUbY]

Went to the hydro store yesterday, picked up some OS and blood meal. I realize blood meal kind of a non sustainable thing because of the industry but Id rather they turn it into fertilizer than waste it, I look at animal manure the same way. Anyway, couldnt hold back the snicker when the guy said we dont cary straight peat cause its not a renewable resource. He said "What?", I said hang on a sec, grabbed a bag of pro mix and ewc, recturned to chek out and said "been wanting to try this peat anyway, and I think if your business model was renewability and sustainability you would have a lot fewer bottles of water for sale".

LOL. clueless hydrostore employees. there are few and far between that are actually knowledgable about all aspects of growing. i have formed a pretty good relationship with the owner of the store i frequent. He likes what I do. I'm gonna make him a batch of soil soon for him to try out lol.

 

[ShLUbY]

Little flower room update... So here we go!

Dairy Queen day 46... quality has not suffered from the high pH that's for sure. I'm gonna check the pH of these no-tills tomorrow and see if they've increased in acidity at all after the peat extracts.



Gorilla Glue day 46... high pH in this pot as well. Again quality doesn't seem to be affected...



The three Confidential Cheese in 5 gal pumice SIPS. These are day 19. They also had high pH, but I have them a couple peat extracts last week and they seem to be dropping in pH. One measured 7.1/7.0 when last week they were 7.3/7.4... I'm gonna check the others tomorrow. Probably give them another extract tomorrow as well and then get back to SIP. I've been hand watering in the peat extract to make sure it runs through the whole medium.

I defoliated these pretty heavily today, wanted to really get some light penetration this round with the cheese. I've never done it this much with this strain... but man, they just grow so many leaves. I bet in a week you won't even be able to tell that I did it. I've seen some compelling evidence on a couple well known youtube channels. I didn't even defo as much as they did... but they were running CO2. Anyway, enough rambling.... they're looking good!



Also not seeing any side effects from the peat extracts which is good... so another one for them tomorrow and hopefully they'll be good for a while!

I'll be back with some more on Sunday most likely. Show some of the new strains in veg. Veg room is full sip mode... every plant!

 

[CaptainSnap]

Nice looking ladies shlub! Its always nice to have a room full of lush ladies. Frost is looking good as well. I believe I'm experiencing similar issues with my sips as I've been on tap water for the winter. Its faded and slowed growth and doesn't seem to have responded to the top dress I gave it 2 weeks ago. I have no idea where the pH sits but when I used rainwater I didn't have these issues. Can't wait for spring....

 

[ShLUbY]

Nice looking ladies shlub! Its always nice to have a room full of lush ladies. Frost is looking good as well. I believe I'm experiencing similar issues with my sips as I've been on tap water for the winter. Its faded and slowed growth and doesn't seem to have responded to the top dress I gave it 2 weeks ago. I have no idea where the pH sits but when I used rainwater I didn't have these issues. Can't wait for spring....

Thanks bud. ive been dealing with cold temps too... gonna be changing that finally here pretty soon. picking up a fan temp controller this weekend, and gonna order a oil radiant heater from amazon this week.... better late than never lol