EVOLUTION, LAND RACES

[Tektek]

Cannabis is one of the first plants cultivated by humans. I think classification is simplified by using 4 species. Cannabis ruderalis, C. indica, C. sativa and C. hemp.

C. ruderalis has origins in central Asia. Usually less than 2 ft tall, spindly, auto-flowering, maybe 1% THC and CBD. It could be the ancestor of the other species. Natural and human selection created land races adapted to different latitudes and climates.

C. indica, usually less than 4 ft tall, conical, dense foliage, compact buds, high THC, about 1% CBDs. C. indica ‘afghanica Clarke’ evolved for a long time at about 35 deg N, in a dry climate, slightly acid to slightly basic soils, often calcareous.

C. sativa, usually more than 4 ft tall, open branch and foliage structure, loose buds, high THC, about 1% CBDs. Adapted to sub-tropical latitudes, wetter climate, somewhat acid soils with lower nutrient concentration. More resistance to mould is a recessive trait.

C. hemp, usually very tall, little branching, loose buds, high CBD, about 1% THC. Many land races adapted to different climates and latitudes.

The chemical pathway for THC and CBD is either / or. The minor constituent is there because it’s chemical pathway is active at a very reduced rate.

New varieties/hybrids, almost anything is possible and the industry is a mess. A variety like ‘purple Kush’ from different seed companies or growers might be similar, but they usually have different chemistry and genetics.

More on how this relates to growing, soon.

 

[NaturalFarmer]

Does it benefit the plant by classifying it as four instead of one? It seems that the only one who stands to benefit by putting everything in compartments like that is lawmakers, who can then tell the lessers which is good and bad so as to allow more government involvement and more $$$ for that government.

Sativa is latin and means "cultivated"

Cannabis Sativa is the genus and Indica and Ruderalis are subspecies of that, never heard of Cannabis Hemp however. Hemp traits can be found in everyday strains and phenos of them both indica and sativa forms, they are not a separate species because of it in my opinion.

Hemp has two forms, fiber and seed-oil, both very different in shape. One has Sativa traits and the other indica. Compartmentalizing the strains from there by thc % only benefits lawmakers and sets artificial limits that will hinder the farmer and consumer alike.

 

[SchmoeJoe]

Does it benefit the plant by classifying it as four instead of one? It seems that the only one who stands to benefit by putting everything in compartments like that is lawmakers, who can then tell the lessers which is good and bad so as to allow more government involvement and more $$$ for that government.

Sativa is latin and means "cultivated"

Cannabis Sativa is the genus and Indica and Ruderalis are subspecies of that, never heard of Cannabis Hemp however. Hemp traits can be found in everyday strains and phenos of them both indica and sativa forms, they are not a separate species because of it in my opinion.

Hemp has two forms, fiber and seed-oil, both very different in shape. One has Sativa traits and the other indica. Compartmentalizing the strains from there by thc % only benefits lawmakers and sets artificial limits that will hinder the farmer and consumer alike.

The varieties grown for drug use will always be a controlled substance. Between that and the fact that the differences are enough that, even though they're obviously different species, they should have their own taxonomic classifications.

 

[NaturalFarmer]

My point was a farmer who accidentally grows 1% THC+ will ultimately be hindered and and the market will be constricted and not naturally flourish. Aside from that, I am not sure what you mean, they do have their own classifications now although I hacked it a bit up above.

 

[Tektek]

Just land races, not compartments.

Politics, law? don’t care. This is for us.
Lots of confusion, marketing bs. misinformation, right wing subversion every where.
Seed companies now? So much bs.

I don’t need CBD/hemp/auto-flower/ruderalis/chem-fem-bot genetics in my THC plants.

The 4 species, a tool to see where genetic traits like mould resistance, hi THC or CBD, structure, etc come from. Land races bred/adapted for different climates and latitudes / photoperiods. Better pot when photoperiod used properly. more later.

Current nomenclature stupid, old anti drug bs and now marketing bs. Could be written Genus ‘variety’ without species.
Eventually genetic analysis will determine lineage of species/ varieties. Is there a common ancestor for THC sativa? etc.
I guess some land races have better seed/oil/food than others.
modern hemp with THC 1%? not much chance.

 

[NaturalFarmer]

Good luck.

 

[SchmoeJoe]

[QUOTE
modern hemp with THC 1%? not much chance.[/QUOTE]


Considering the decades of selective breeding to stay compliant with legal requirements I'd say it's actually a pretty good chance.

 

[OldMedUser]

General consensus is that there is really only one genus of cannabis which is C. sativa. Everything is just variations of that which developed their own survival strategies depending on their environment.

Seeds from all plants are spread far and wide by birds etc and if they land somewhere that they can survive a season or few they will adapt to local conditions and thrive or die.

Even the lowly so-called ruderalis was likely a seed shat out by a bird that ate it in Nepal a week earlier and adapted to the short growing season over a few thousand years.

Even Rainbow and Cutthroat trout were found to be true salmonids over 20 years ago but they still taste like trout to me!

 

[SchmoeJoe]

General consensus is that there is really only one genus of cannabis which is C. sativa. Everything is just variations of that which developed their own survival strategies depending on their environment.

Seeds from all plants are spread far and wide by birds etc and if they land somewhere that they can survive a season or few they will adapt to local conditions and thrive or die.

Even the lowly so-called ruderalis was likely a seed shat out by a bird that ate it in Nepal a week earlier and adapted to the short growing season over a few thousand years.

Even Rainbow and Cutthroat trout were found to be true salmonids over 20 years ago but they still taste like trout to me!

It was also learned that steelhead routinely breed with resident rainbows.

 

[OldMedUser]

Steelhead are actually just ocean run rainbow trout. Rainbow trout - Salmo Gardenari, Steelhead - Salmo Gardenari Gardenari. Pretty sure that's correct but don't have my notebook from the post-graduate fisheries management course I took in 1990.

On the Chilliwack River in southern, BC where I first learned to fish at my grandfather's side starting at 3 years old there is a big hatchery where they raise steelhead, coho etc. They open the river on July first and allow you to keep 12 trout per day. Most of those are young steelhead that didn't go to the ocean so they want them out of the river as they eat up food needed for resident fish. At least that's what they did 20 years back when I lived out there.

 

[ANC]

You don't need to learn to fish trout.... earthworms, the fuckers can't resist them.

 

[OldMedUser]

You don't need to learn to fish trout.... earthworms, the fuckers can't resist them.

I'm not a bait-slinger tho. Flies I tie myself or spinners and spoons work for any fish I go after. My trout spinners on a noodle rod with 6lb test line have landed me 30lb+ salmon while sitting in my belly boat at the mouth of the Chilliwack where it meets the Fraser. About 3 miles down from the parking area.

My buddy Dave and I would check the tides in the Vancouver Sun paper to make sure we would get a high tide while down there or it was hike back in the bush with your belly boat on your back wearing thick neoprene waders. Need to lose weight? That does the trick when we fucked up.

For steelies in the upper river we'd bottom bounce with spin-and-glows to great effect. Tiny ones the size of a marble with a bit of coloured wool on the big 4/0 hook. Purple and chartreuse with a shot of WD-40 was my fave.

Up here the same gear I used for salmon works fine for pike and walleye too. Pike take flies just fine as well but rip them up so I make big ones with feathers from our chickens and a 6" wire leader on the end of a 50lb straight tippet. I have a 10' - 10wt Powell fly rod I built from parts about '85. I use a floating WF shooting head and back before my shoulders went to shit got over 120' cast out of it at a competition we had with most of the members of my fly club attending.

Pike suck on regular gear. Like dragging in a log until they see the boat then they finally wake up and run for it. The fun factor goes way up on a fly rod or my noodle rod with spoons. Need a new tube for my belly boat and use that once the ice is off the lake here.

WD-40 works great on the fish up here too. Always have mini can of it in my fishing vest. Got one from Camel trading in Camel Bucks. Shitload of stuff from them. Wouldn't send to Canada so would order it sent to my uncle's in Oregon and mom would bring it back in the motor home when they went to visit or he'd bring it up in his gorgeous converted Greyhound Bus.

I used to go down to Lynden, WA to buy a couple cartons of Camel Filter 100s every pay day and hide them under the back seat of my chevy. Did that for over 5 years and never got caught but wouldn't try it now. Couldn't get in the states now without a passport anyways. I lived 3 miles from the border crossing and Lynden was the first town on the way to Bellingham but most often my destination. Cheap fishing gear too. A guy offered to buy me a .357 from the hardware store there once but I didn't do it. $350 with $50 to him. Model 66 S&W in SS with combat grips. Fired off a box of wadcutters through a Colt Python at a shooting range where I took a handgun course because it was half price. It had the combat grips too and fit my hand perfectly. They'd teach you on a .22 pistol and semi-auto then let you go buy a box of ammo for any gun you wanted to try. Was fun.

 

[SchmoeJoe]

Steelhead are actually just ocean run rainbow trout. Rainbow trout - Salmo Gardenari, Steelhead - Salmo Gardenari Gardenari. Pretty sure that's correct but don't have my notebook from the post-graduate fisheries management course I took in 1990.

On the Chilliwack River in southern, BC where I first learned to fish at my grandfather's side starting at 3 years old there is a big hatchery where they raise steelhead, coho etc. They open the river on July first and allow you to keep 12 trout per day. Most of those are young steelhead that didn't go to the ocean so they want them out of the river as they eat up food needed for resident fish. At least that's what they did 20 years back when I lived out there.

There was a study that spanned 30 years on the Hood River in Oregon that concluded fairly recently that found that they are actually the same species of rainbow and that about 25% of their offspring become anadromous.

I only brought it up in the first place because it's another perfect example of how new discoveries upend what we thought was an established understanding of the family tree of a particular organism and it's relatives.

 

[ANC]

I'm not a bait-slinger tho. Flies I tie myself or spinners and spoons work for any fish I go after. My trout spinners on a noodle rod with 6lb test line have landed me 30lb+ salmon while sitting in my belly boat at the mouth of the Chilliwack where it meets the Fraser. About 3 miles down from the parking area.

My buddy Dave and I would check the tides in the Vancouver Sun paper to make sure we would get a high tide while down there or it was hike back in the bush with your belly boat on your back wearing thick neoprene waders. Need to lose weight? That does the trick when we fucked up.

For steelies in the upper river we'd bottom bounce with spin-and-glows to great effect. Tiny ones the size of a marble with a bit of coloured wool on the big 4/0 hook. Purple and chartreuse with a shot of WD-40 was my fave.

Up here the same gear I used for salmon works fine for pike and walleye too. Pike take flies just fine as well but rip them up so I make big ones with feathers from our chickens and a 6" wire leader on the end of a 50lb straight tippet. I have a 10' - 10wt Powell fly rod I built from parts about '85. I use a floating WF shooting head and back before my shoulders went to shit got over 120' cast out of it at a competition we had with most of the members of my fly club attending.

Pike suck on regular gear. Like dragging in a log until they see the boat then they finally wake up and run for it. The fun factor goes way up on a fly rod or my noodle rod with spoons. Need a new tube for my belly boat and use that once the ice is off the lake here.

WD-40 works great on the fish up here too. Always have mini can of it in my fishing vest. Got one from Camel trading in Camel Bucks. Shitload of stuff from them. Wouldn't send to Canada so would order it sent to my uncle's in Oregon and mom would bring it back in the motor home when they went to visit or he'd bring it up in his gorgeous converted Greyhound Bus.

I used to go down to Lynden, WA to buy a couple cartons of Camel Filter 100s every pay day and hide them under the back seat of my chevy. Did that for over 5 years and never got caught but wouldn't try it now. Couldn't get in the states now without a passport anyways. I lived 3 miles from the border crossing and Lynden was the first town on the way to Bellingham but most often my destination. Cheap fishing gear too. A guy offered to buy me a .357 from the hardware store there once but I didn't do it. $350 with $50 to him. Model 66 S&W in SS with combat grips. Fired off a box of wadcutters through a Colt Python at a shooting range where I took a handgun course because it was half price. It had the combat grips too and fit my hand perfectly. They'd teach you on a .22 pistol and semi-auto then let you go buy a box of ammo for any gun you wanted to try. Was fun.

I should take pics of my tackle collection.. I could probably open a shop.

 

[SchmoeJoe]

I should take pics of my tackle collection.. I could probably open a shop.

I hooked a huge Springer on a 00 mepps and 4# test. I played with it for awhile before I decided that I had to wait for it to come in close one more time so I could cut the line with the least amount of line in the water before it got out into the main flow and spooled me.

 

[SchmoeJoe]

You don't need to learn to fish trout.... earthworms, the fuckers can't resist them.

Even with bait you have to learn to maintain a dead drift.

 

[OldMedUser]

Down there they got fish for their hatcheries by sports fishing for them. That way they used stock that was inclined to hit lures. Unlike here where they net them out of the river.

Sure miss stocking my freezer with coho every fall. So rarely eat fish the last 17 years since moving up north. So f'n expensive but a fish truck comes around once in a while with good stuff if you can afford it.

Gonna get my belly boat fixed up and do some fishing this year. Stocked lake about an hour away so can do some trout fishing on my grandpa's old fiberglass fly rod. Big lake with pike and walley an hour the other way.

 

[OldMedUser]

I should take pics of my tackle collection.. I could probably open a shop.

I got shitloads of stuff too. Grandpa's and dad's stuff. Lot of salt water gear. 20 or so rods for almost everything. Some salmon plugs and stuff that is almost a 100 years old. His old 6wt. fly rod he bought in 1946 and my dad said he remembers grandma bitching him out for wasting a whole week's pay on a fishing pole. Real high tech for it's day. Heavy but casts a 6wt. double taper line like magic. Can power a weight forward really fine too. Every time I catch a fish on that rod I look up and say, This one's for you gramps! Been a while but this summer for sure!

 

[OldMedUser]

Even with bait you have to learn to maintain a dead drift.

There was a slough on the way to the Chilliwack that was perfect for dead drifting a worm and nailing steelies and coho in season. Trout all year round. Big sucker fish and carp too. I made my own floats out of balsa wood and painted up with a coat of epoxy rod finish. Got a bunch of tiny eye hooks and would put one at the bottom with a short piece of surgical tubing at the top to hold the line. Put the line through the tubing first then the eye on the float. Can adjust depth in a second and just the top half of the float would show with a 3/0 hook with half a dew worm threaded on it so just the point showed outside the worm. The slightest touch would pull the float under then just hit it hard. Good fish could run a 100 yds of line out in one long run. Love that noodle rod for that. Small spin reel on it. That's where I took both my boys to catch their first fish.

 

[SchmoeJoe]

There was a slough on the way to the Chilliwack that was perfect for dead drifting a worm and nailing steelies and coho in season. Trout all year round. Big sucker fish and carp too. I made my own floats out of balsa wood and painted up with a coat of epoxy rod finish. Got a bunch of tiny eye hooks and would put one at the bottom with a short piece of surgical tubing at the top to hold the line. Put the line through the tubing first then the eye on the float. Can adjust depth in a second and just the top half of the float would show with a 3/0 hook with half a dew worm threaded on it so just the point showed outside the worm. The slightest touch would pull the float under then just hit it hard. Good fish could run a 100 yds of line out in one long run. Love that noodle rod for that. Small spin reel on it. That's where I took both my boys to catch their first fish.

I had a 9'6" UL Lamiglas with a slow action that I picked up just for drift fishing for trout. That rod was so much fun on smaller streams.