Developing a new kind of hydroponic system, what features do you like?

[69rich69]

Hey guys, I've been developing some new technology for the last 18 months and i'm now in the final stages of mashing it all together into something that's sexy and functional - like Marilyn Monroe with beer flavoured nipples.

Essentially what I have produced is a misting system for aeroponic systems that is plug and play, with built in features to change droplet size, mist density, coverage of the mist, on / off times and flowrate of the nutrient solution.

I was hoping you guys might be able to offer some insights into what you prioritise most when you think about buying/building a hydroponic system? My technology is very innovative and unique, but unfortunately I can't talk about the best parts because I need to file a couple of patents first. My main concern is wrapping this awesome technology into a product that you guys would love.

What is your thinking process when buying or building a hydroponic system?

Any help would be appreciated

 

[ttystikk]

I'm a big fan of simple and robust. Less shit to go wrong and the opposite of finicky.

It sounds like you have a lot going on and that can be worrisome with so many potential points of failure.

 

[69rich69]

ahh that's good to know, I kind of feel the same way, but I think the precision timers and the mist control is an important feature to have to help promote decent roots. wifi connectivity and built in sensors are definitely questionable though and I personally wouldn't be interested in it but some people are.

Just wondering, when you buy something simple and robust, does that mean you are prepared to sacrifice yield or cost in order to get it? Or would you build it yourself, because it is a simple system and thus easy to build yourself?

 

[ttystikk]

ahh that's good to know, I kind of feel the same way, but I think the precision timers and the mist control is an important feature to have to help promote decent roots. wifi connectivity and built in sensors are definitely questionable though and I personally wouldn't be interested in it but some people are.

Just wondering, when you buy something simple and robust, does that mean you are prepared to sacrifice yield or cost in order to get it? Or would you build it yourself, because it is a simple system and thus easy to build yourself?

In my experience, simple and robust leads to good yields because things tend not to fuck up.

If you want to add the bells and whistles, that's fine- in that car I suggest that the failure state of any additional system is one that keeps the plants alive as long as possible.

 

[growingforfun]

I agree with simple. I went back to dirt after doing hydro for a year for that reason. Hydro has so many ways it can go wrong.. power goes out an your fucked. Pump burns out your fucked. Step on a connecter an not notice, your flooded. Float valve fails your flooded. All that and much more happened to me in hydro. Yes, its faster growing with hydro... but i think my yearly average is higher in soil and its so much less stress. If i ever went back to hydro i would do dwc in 5 gal buckets with hydroton. Larger systems was too much trouble for me. I wouldnt want anything connected to wifi or any sensors of any kind.

 

[ttystikk]

I'm cool with the sensors and all, but if they quit the system still has to work well enough to keep the girls alive.

'Fault tolerant' is the operative phrase.

 

[69rich69]

Yeah a lot of stuff can go tits up in hydro, and when it does it's usually catastrophic. It's why I've built something that is self contained with all the important parts included so you can plug and play with less tubing and wires dangling about. Of course, this doesn't prevent parts from failing but I am able to incorporate safety features to help.

For instance, I designed everything to run off 12 volts, so that you can purchase a power back up supply, which means if you have a power cut it will automatically kick in and the system will run off a 12v car battery for 24 hours.

Are there any other things that I should be aware of? I plan to sell just the misting system in the region of £200, with the aim that you place it into your own custom built aeroponic system (more like a large container as opposed to pvc tubes). Is this a good business model or do you think many people would not want to have to build or buy a aeroponic system? My logical thinking is that I want to provide decent technology that people can adapt to there system.

 

[slinkysaurus]

I'm commercial and RDWC.
I was just about to make a post about this problem with current systems!..

I hate my hydro systems. For one reason - rbigger plants roots going back down the pipes and clogging the system.

Try lifting a 1 meter wide mainliner out of the pot in flower and pulling roots back up the pipes is no easy task.

So I have a few suggestions.

probably most importantly, to even further combat the root problem and travelling up pipes, I suggest a rdwc system that PUSHES the solution through the system for an hour and THEN PULLS the solution through the system for an hour, alternating . This will stop roots being forced in one direction and more likely to stay in the pot and not travel the pipes.(Idea copyright 2018 Slinkysaurus)

Secondly - bigger pots. 50L +

And lastly a mesh to stop and wayward clay pebbles that sunk travelling the pipes from each pot.

Apart from this, once you nail your hydro system and make it 100% water tight, and have spare parts, pumps etc if anything goes wrong, it's brilliant. I can't answer your poll questions as think they are Mostly all irrelevant to an amazing hydro system apart from drain to waste, which most have a way of doing. Sorry! Lol

 

[69rich69]

Yeah I always hated the idea of buying commercial systems because you pay lots of money for something which can be hacked together in an afternoon. Many years ago I grew DWC and was able to achieve 50z per plant consistently. Its all about massive roots and lots of light. But then I switched to Aero to grow smaller plants faster and more efficiently. But man do I miss growing monstrous plants as big as DWC allows.

Don't worry about the poll questions, it's more about getting an understanding of the thought process involved when people choose one system over another which your reply helped with anyway

Unfortunately i'm starting to think I've built the worlds best aeroponic system, but no one wants an aeroponic system haha well there's definitely a market, but I want something that really resonates with alot of growers, but I think the lack of medium to hold on to water in case something happens is a big problem for some growers, no matter how "reliable" the system is. Do you think there is anything to be done to entice more people to the world of aeroponics?

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

you didn't add one of the most important criteria to your poll. RELIABILITY......i don't want to have to worry about anything complicated....simple, rock solid, bulletproof...that's what most people need, whether they want it or not....

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Yeah I always hated the idea of buying commercial systems because you pay lots of money for something which can be hacked together in an afternoon. Many years ago I grew DWC and was able to achieve 50z per plant consistently. Its all about massive roots and lots of light. But then I switched to Aero to grow smaller plants faster and more efficiently. But man do I miss growing monstrous plants as big as DWC allows.

Don't worry about the poll questions, it's more about getting an understanding of the thought process involved when people choose one system over another which your reply helped with anyway

Unfortunately i'm starting to think I've built the worlds best aeroponic system, but no one wants an aeroponic system haha well there's definitely a market, but I want something that really resonates with alot of growers, but I think the lack of medium to hold on to water in case something happens is a big problem for some growers, no matter how "reliable" the system is. Do you think there is anything to be done to entice more people to the world of aeroponics?

yeah, figure out a way to keep the plants alive if the power goes off for several hours.....

 

[69rich69]

you didn't add one of the most important criteria to your poll. RELIABILITY......i don't want to have to worry about anything complicated....simple, rock solid, bulletproof...that's what most people need, whether they want it or not....

haha yeah I actually did have reliability down but I deleted it when I realised I was limited to a number of poll options. It was pretty obvious that people would choose that option first and I wanted more helpful answers. Keeping the plants alive in case of power cut is easy and has already been taken care of, but in case of water pump failure or something, it's alot trickier to solve because essentially you would need a whole back up system in place to kick in when a failure is detected. Not impossible, but I would have to have two of my products combined into one and sell it for a price that still allows me to make a profit.

The next best thing I can think of is to design the product so all the main components are modular and can easily be swapped over with spare parts. Of course this wouldn't help much if your plants die before you can switch the new part into place.

Going back to the idea of having two systems built into one product, I have thought about this because it would allow you to feed your plants two different nutrient solutions if you want and could be programmed to be fed as and when you want. And of course, should something break down, the other system would kick in and save the day. Unfortunately I would have to charge much more for the system, in the region of £350, which I feel may be too much for a system capable of a 4x4 ft area?

 

[PetFlora]

I've tried HPA, LPA, drip, and halo ring top feed. They all work well when set up properly and in experienced hands

The questions you need to ask include

is it reliable over time

how much better (quality/yield) is it than proven simple methods

The pinnacle is HPA, with all kinds of ancillaries; solenoids, storage tanks

I have yet to see an eye opening comparison

 

[69rich69]

Yeah it's all about HPA but unfortunately it's too complicated for a lot of growers and again has the risk factor of plants dieing when faults occur. It's actually reading some of your threads many years ago that got me into it. Annoyingly, I can't talk specifically about my actual technology due to wanting to file patents, but what I can say is that my system produces a mist similar to HPA without a lot of the bulk. The technology actually takes it a step further though, because not only is everything variable such as droplet size (20 to 200 microns), density and footprint covered, but the mist is actually more uniform in respect to the dispersion of the droplets within the mist and has a narrower range of droplets. Also because the mist is created via digitally controlled mechanisms (a little bit like ultrasonic foggers) the properties of the mist is consistent and uniform 100% of the time.

Unfortunately I can't even vaguely talk about the really innovative part of my technology, but when I file the patents it would be interesting to hear your feedback PetFlora. In the mean time, I would really like to here your input on producing a product that people actually want. I don't want to build a crappy product filled to the brim with loads of pointless marketing gimmicks that add no value to the user experience. I realise I can't build a system that everybody will want, but hopefully I can build something that really resonates with some growers and provides the fastest growth rates for small to medium plants that is ultra reliable compared to conventional aeroponic systems.

 

[adower]

High quality parts. I don’t care if the switch costs 20$ a piece. If they have a longer life span and are less apt to break I will pay for them.

 

[Potmetal]

Glad to see the spirit of innovation is alive and well.

My thoughts run along this line; function over form until you've got it running flawlessly. Even then forget what it looks like and focus on reliability as that is what fucks so many hydro growers out of a decent vacation every year.
Lastly, and this is very subjective, growers are a pretty stubborn lot. All it takes is a single hps vs. LED discussion to demonstrate as much. You're gonna have to run a few succesdful crops through to gen up much excitement or convince growers to give up what they've got dialed in. In any case I'm excited to see what you've got going on here.

 

[Slinging PAR]

pink.

 

[mr.jinks]

You’re doing the same thing I am. Simple plug and play is what I’m building.

 

[69rich69]

Yeah pink and glittery is the only color available haha mr.jinks is your plug and play also based on an aeroponic misting system?

 

[69rich69]

Glad to see the spirit of innovation is alive and well.

My thoughts run along this line; function over form until you've got it running flawlessly. Even then forget what it looks like and focus on reliability as that is what fucks so many hydro growers out of a decent vacation every year.
Lastly, and this is very subjective, growers are a pretty stubborn lot. All it takes is a single hps vs. LED discussion to demonstrate as much. You're gonna have to run a few succesdful crops through to gen up much excitement or convince growers to give up what they've got dialed in. In any case I'm excited to see what you've got going on here.

Yeah the main misting system has been under development for the last 18 months with the main focus of reliability But of course, things can fail, so i'm in the process of wrapping it into a product that incorporates all the safety features you guys would want without over engineering it and introducing unnecessary costs.

My first port of call to reduce costs and increase the value of the product was to eliminate the entire housing of the aeroponic system and sell just the heart of the technology for people to easily adapt into their aeroponic system. This reduces alot of bulk and weight which lowers shipping cost (and many other benefits). Unfortunately I'm not 100% sure if people like the idea of having to supply their own aeroponic housing system, but it means I can offer cutting edge technology at an affordable price.

Also everyone has stressed reliability and peace of mind as their main desires, which totally proves why true aeroponics is not very popular, but if I was to over engineer the shit out of this product and it was theoretically guaranteed 100% running time without faults, how much would that be worth?