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Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Yes, wind power is killing a lot of birds. That's a fact. Also a fact that the largest risk to birds is global warming. Also a fact that fossil fuel industry which is responsible for far more bird deaths due to oil spills alone is funding lobbyist efforts in opposition to wind power.

https://www.audubon.org/news/will-wind-turbines-ever-be-safe-birds

In months to come, USFWS plans to overhaul the MBTA (migratory birds treaty act), and in a show of pragmatism, it’s proposing that wind farms be allowed "incidental take permits," which would make it legal for wind companies to (unintentionally) kill a limited number of protected species each year. But companies would only be awarded permits if they can prove they’re doing everything possible to avoid bird strikes, like ensuring best siting and deterring birds from blades.

“The permit rule would modernize and strengthen the Migratory Bird Treaty Act and put in place critical new protections for America’s birds from coast to coast,” says Mike Daulton, who leads Audubon’s national policy team. By placing pressure on wind companies to abide by these rules—or face massive fines—it could protect North America’s most threatened species. It’s “a win-win for the industry and for birds,” says Daulton. “It will provide legal certainty to the industry and new protections for the birds.”


Wind Done Right
After Audubon released its 2014 Birds and Climate Change report, which showed that climate change will threaten more than half of North America's birds if we don't rapidly reduce emissions, it became abundantly clear that the organization needed to focus more on expediting properly sited renewable energy. Audubon’s goal is to ensure that 50 percent of America's energy comes from renewable sources by 2030. Audubon members believe this transition is important and the organization has a role to play: In a January 2018 survey of more than 2,300 members nationwide, every respondent supported more renewable energy investments. Eighty-nine percent said that renewable energy is critical to the health of the planet, and 78 percent said that fossil fuels harm global bird populations.

Further, more than 90 percent said that Audubon should collaborate with the clean energy industry on bird-friendly solutions. Those efforts are already underway: Audubon is working closely with partners in the renewables industry and government to properly site projects and help them develop and implement practices and technologies such as IdentiFlight that avoid killing of birds by turbines. —Martha Harbison

Another fact is that the wind industry is a crappy self-regulating body:

http://savetheeaglesinternational.org/releases/spanish-wind-farms-kill-6-to-18-million-birds-bats-a-year.html

On 12 January 2012, at the First Scientific Congress on Wind Energy and Wildlife Conservation in Jerez de la Frontera, Spain, the Spanish Society of Ornithology (SEO/Birdlife) made public its estimate that, yearly, Spain’s 18,000 wind turbines may be killing 6 to 18 million birds and bats (1). The average per turbine comes down to 333 – 1,000 deaths annually, which is a far cry from the 2 – 4 birds claimed by the American wind industry, or the 400,000 birds a year estimated by the American Bird Conservancy for the whole United States, which has about twice as many turbines as Spain.

Duchamp has always maintained that earlier studies, made when bird mortality at windfarms wasn’t such a hot potatoe, were more credible than recent ones. “It is a curious business where those consultants who find or predict the lowest mortality land all the contracts. This is what is being asked of them, and this is what they do. This unethical conduct has already condemned the Tasmanian Wedge-tailed eagle to extinction (3), and more recently the Golden Eagle in the United States (4). Another factor is the occultation of carcasses by windfarm employees, as may be seen in the SEO/Birdlife report.” (5)


Another fact is the fossil fuel industry is working against the wind power industry

https://www.energyandpolicy.org/anti-wind-groups-coordinate-with-fossil-fuel-funded-organizations/

On February 1st and 2nd, at least two prominent advocacy groups connected to fossil fuel corporations, the American Tradition Institute (ATI) and Committee For A Constructive Tomorrow (CFACT), met in Washington with 32 NIMBY (“Not in my backyard”) organizations to discuss a coordinated “subversion” campaign to wreck wind energy.

The American Tradition Institute is now the Energy & Environment Legal Institute.

As Suzanne Goldenberg of The Guardian writes, “The strategy session is the latest evidence of a concerted attack on the clean energy industry by think tanks and lobby groups connected to oil and coal interests and free-market ideologues.”

Conclusion 1: Wind power is a nascent disruptive technology that can either deliver on its promise for a better future or simply replace one bad solution with another bad one. Wind energy corporation behavior demonstrates that the profit incentive conflicts with their ability self regulate their industry. Wind power development and construction companies must be made to partner with trusted independent organizations with independent objective to implement and verify best known solutions. The model of the Audubon society partnering with the wind power industry is something that looks promising going forward.

Conclusion 2: The fossil fuel industry opposes all progress to replace their technology with clean ones. Sue the shit out of them and use the money to fund better research and make them pay for their crime of delaying implementation of alternative sources of energy.
 
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Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Wind farms are certainly better to look at than a coal fired station. They just don't produce allot of power
We have a chicken farm here called Nicholls (https://www.thetasmanianfoodco.com.au/our-brands/nichols-poultry/). They generate allot of their own power from a wind turbine. which is fantastic. You can hear the blades swinging so I can understand why the sound of them effects some people.
Studies I've seen that try to model what kind of power delivery system would be needed to replace fossil fuels for the US has wind at somewhere between 5 and 10 percent of overall. So, yeah, not a total solution and not something one could operate everywhere but enough to make a contribution.

My own experience with wind power came from the time I lived in Santa Clara California which invested in wind farms in the 1980's and still has them operating. My power bill was significantly less than those who lived outside the district. I don't know if it was the low cost of wind power or the fact that the city was generating it instead of Pacific Gas and Electric company and so we weren't being raped by the shareholders for that company.
 

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
The first big farm they brought here was placed on Wolf Island which is located on the edge of the Atlantic flyaway. The farmers that allowed them were given large amounts to lease what was prime ag land. 1/2 the islanders were against the project and the rest (farms) were for it due to the financial windfall. Sure were a lot of new Chev trucks driving around after that.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
The first big farm they brought here was placed on Wolf Island which is located on the edge of the Atlantic flyaway. The farmers that allowed them were given large amounts to lease what was prime ag land. 1/2 the islanders were against the project and the rest (farms) were for it due to the financial windfall. Sure were a lot of new Chev trucks driving around after that.
And your point is?
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
That when money is involved the consequences don’t seem to matter I guess, if I actually had to make a point. I wasn’t. Your moods ebb and flow huh lol.
It was a cryptic remark and I didn't want to jump to a conclusion about what you said.

Jeez, don't be so touchy.

I still don't understand what your point is.
 

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
What a ridiculous article written by a blithering idiot.

Of course when you've built thousands of coal fired power plants over the last 100 years and hundreds of nuclear power plants over the last 60 years and only a few major wind farms over the last 20 years one is going to have a huge advantage over the other.

That's not the fucking point on wind farms.

The point of wind farms is to use free energy whenever and wherever you can. Every little bit helps.
 

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
What a ridiculous article written by a blithering idiot.

Of course when you've built thousands of coal fired power plants over the last 100 years and hundreds of nuclear power plants over the last 60 years and only a few major wind farms over the last 20 years one is going to have a huge advantage over the other.

That's not the fucking point on wind farms.

The point of wind farms is to use free energy whenever and wherever you can. Every little bit helps.
I thought it was most interesting in regards to the amount needed and the land mass required if it was the option used to just supply the needed new power (not that it would be the only source). I actually thought they were a more significant power source, I see them and my perception is they are huge power providers, their big lol.
 

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
The United States has 94,000 Megawatts worth of wind right now, and most of that was built in just the last 10 years.
Is that the total yearly rated output? Or is that the actual output I wonder? Our provincial goverment has basically pulled the switch on them re enhanced buy back rates, or outright killing projects. We had a boom in construction when buy back rates were at times double the going rate per kWh, same with solar pv.
 

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
That's per day.

A typical Wind Turbine is fitted with a 2.5 MW generator. In a year, it will produce around 6000 Megawatts on average, or enough to power around 1,250 homes.

That's just ONE.
 
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