whytewidow
Well-Known Member
Have you tried the new formula yet? It doesn't have enough mag in it either. Works great in soil. But it's not enough for coco.
The Greatest Show On Earth Presents The 16oz Party Cup Grow Off
- Thread starter The Dawg
- Start date
Have you tried the new formula yet? It doesn't have enough mag in it either. Works great in soil. But it's not enough for coco.
OneHitDone
Well-Known Member
Exactly, someone needs to spend the dough on proper leaf tissue analysis under led. I nominate @Stephenj37826 since he is one of the largest proponents of led currently out there.
Maybe a free bottle of HLG MagNificent with every 550 purchase?
One thing for sure, it is hard to find healthy representations of seedlings under led and soil growers are seeming to do better than hydro / coco. Maybe the Dolomite?
whytewidow
Well-Known Member
It has to do with how much faster the plants transpire under the intense brightness of the leds. If you notice when dialed in, plants drink a lot more under leds than hid lighting. Plus running leds you need have higher temps in the first place. Mag is one the fastest used nutrients. It helps with cell division and chlorophyll production. So it gets used twice as fast under good LEDs.
OneHitDone
Well-Known Member
Point being, a lot of these led companies out there are making wheel barrows full of $$ and not solving the whole equation - just leaving the customer to figure out all the oddities and technicalities the product is causing.
OneHitDone
Well-Known Member
To add a question back to you on this - at a given spot ppfd reading, are you suggesting that led drives photosynthesis harder than say hps?
whytewidow
Well-Known Member
In my opinion yes. Good diodes like bridgelux and Samsung are just extremely intense. Way more intense than hid. The light output is stronger as well. You can hit higher par numbers with less watts of led than you can hps. Plus almost 35% of hid light is wasted as generated heat. That the plant doesnt use.
whytewidow
Well-Known Member
Ive run hps and Samsung leds side by side. Leds growth is twice as good as leds. Atleast in garden. I get better branching, denser flowers, more trich production, and closer node spacing. And dont forget, less money wasted in electric.
whytewidow
Well-Known Member
I mean dont take it as I'm some horticultural scientist. Just what I've found in reading and my own experiences.
whytewidow
Well-Known Member
Before leds woukd grow a vegging plant fine no matter the diode. Even shitty smd diodes. But they just lacked the power to flower. But now theyve hit the nail on the head. In my experiences led will outperform hid every single time. If using the right light and its built right of course.
OneHitDone
Well-Known Member
Come on bro, that's like Unicorn talk.
So if we set up two identical tents side by side and set them up to have 800umol's at the canopy in each tent - the LED is going to outgrow the hps?
whytewidow
Well-Known Member
Yes. Unicorn or not. Leds outgrow hps. No matter how you set it. Leds outgrow hps. With less wattage. That's simple information. Everyone knows it doesnt take 1000 watts of good diodes to match 1khps. Come on dude. I would think as much as you hang out in the led section you would know led is better.Come on bro, that's like Unicorn talk.
So if we set up two identical tents side by side and set them up to have 800umol's at the canopy in each tent - the LED is going to outgrow the hps?
whytewidow
Well-Known Member
I've already done side by sides between hps and led. That's why I've switched all my shit over to led. If hps was better than led. People wouldnt be changing over. I mean that's common sense.Come on bro, that's like Unicorn talk.
So if we set up two identical tents side by side and set them up to have 800umol's at the canopy in each tent - the LED is going to outgrow the hps?
Tiflis
Well-Known Member
I was starting to think this thread was dieing off.. come to realize I stopped getting the notifications 
Man there's some pretty looking ladies you are all growing. Very impressive, unlike mine. I am winning the longest legs award for sure. This strain is a stretcher for sure, but this pheno is the lankiest so far out of the batch.
Here is my weekly Sunday update
Strain - Double Zero OGK (fem)
Breeder - Mosca Seeds
Light - Roleadro COB 135 wattish
Medium - Fox Farms Happy Frog and Ocean Forest 50/50. Just top dressed with Ocean Forest since I had some space in the cup. I'm already seeing some deficiencies. Actually all my plants are looking kinda rough
Here's the group pic, you'll see what I mean
Man there's some pretty looking ladies you are all growing. Very impressive, unlike mine. I am winning the longest legs award for sure. This strain is a stretcher for sure, but this pheno is the lankiest so far out of the batch.
Here is my weekly Sunday update
Strain - Double Zero OGK (fem)
Breeder - Mosca Seeds
Light - Roleadro COB 135 wattish
Medium - Fox Farms Happy Frog and Ocean Forest 50/50. Just top dressed with Ocean Forest since I had some space in the cup. I'm already seeing some deficiencies. Actually all my plants are looking kinda rough
Here's the group pic, you'll see what I mean
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Randomblame
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that link! Exactly what I need and the calculator tool is awesome...
I'm pretty sure the calmag issues with LED's are because of the missing heat radiation. The sun and also bulbs like HPS have at least 20-25% heat radiation in form of far and infra red wavelength. White LED's only have a bit far-red and we are forced to reduce the exaust fan to increase ambient temps. But with intensities of 40, 60 or more klx/700-1200μMol/s and high ambient temps the air tends to dry out pretty fast.
With good humidity control(sensor on top and below canopy) and correct VPD according to the plant stage I have much less to almost no issues. They still wanted more magnesium but in soil its most of the time not calcium. More the opposite when the VPD gets too high they seem to take up too much calcium which in turn looks out Mg first and later also other metals like iron and phosphor. Often you get purple stems too when you get trouble because of a too high VPD.
So maybe the optimal calcium : magnesium ratio is a bit different with LED's and we just need a bit more Mg and a correct VPD to avoid issues. We run them usually on higher intensities like back in the HPS days which also has an effect on the nutrient ratios the plant use.
I've mixed up a new gal today this time with added epsom salt but I've used only 1,2g because Maxibloom has already 5% Ca, 3,5% Mg and 4% sulfur. Rest is Maxibloom and 1,2ml Liquid Silicone to get the PH back up of 5,8 and I landed at 640ppm.
Of course I've not found a long enough hose I could use to feed her at night without opening the door. Maybe I'll just use a green flashlight to not disturb night times. Depends on her water comsumption..
SSGrower
Well-Known Member
Hortilux has figured out the one single best method for growing this plant and shared it with the community?Point being, a lot of these led companies out there are making wheel barrows full of $$ and not solving the whole equation - just leaving the customer to figure out all the oddities and technicalities the product is causing.
Not @Stephenj37826 's job buddy.
SSGrower
Well-Known Member
@OneHitDone is the unicorn HID user that knows a more than dickall about leds.
Leaf texture issue imo is the number one thing needing addressed with leds, I have found a mostly nutrient based solution but it is not complete and I think it woulD be better to solve the problem with spectrum than feed anyway.
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
With the same intensity, leaf temps and VPD there should be no difference in transpiration. You only need higher ambient temps to get the same leaf temps like with HPS. 28-29°C is optimal without CO2 and with HPS you need 25-26°C ambient to get the leaf temps in the desired range. With "cold" LED light there is almost no heat/infra red radiation and the leaves have almost the same temps like the sourrounding air(within 1-2°C less). For this reason we need higher ambient temps and because humidity is relative we need higher humidity too.
Heat is not wasted! Plants also need heat but it don't drives photosynthesis directly. But it allows her to work more active. Like insects... At 20°C you can catch a fly easily by hand but at 30°C its almost impossible! An plant getting only 500μMol/s/m² but at 30°C grows faster like the same plant under 1500μMol/s but with only 20°C.
Heat is an important factor inside a grow room and to say its wasted energy is simply not true. We can safe the heat energy produced from hps by using LEDs but we need higher ambient temps to get the same high growth rates and even better results. We can only get away with leds because the reflected light is also converted into heat and when we reduce the airflow its most of the time enough to heat up the tent but you need a minimum intensity and at the end we end up again with the 30-35w/sft recommendation.
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potroastV2
Well-Known Member
Wow, that's a blast from the past! Written by my old friend pH, we were regular posters on the original cultivation forum on Usenet, Alt.Drugs.Pot.Cultivation. With his insight, we as a group devised several helpful guides for optimal cultivation. That was in the late 90's.
Another helpful guide we did was the Yield-O-Rama, where growers documented their results by including every aspect of growing their crop. I have 5 or 6 of my crops detailed in there.
Thanks for posting.
