Got you, you can only live in the past. Brilliant. Humans have no need to evolve people, dog says all the answers are in the past.
America still love's Trump
- Thread starter Jimdamick
- Start date
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
I think this capitalism/socialism is just a way to get people riled up and into camps for data analysis to find out who will be your boogey man. They are just human terms to describe different human manufactured economies. Everything is a mix, capitalism is really just people being able to easily exchange goods for their own determined prices, communism is basically government mandated pricing. Everything will always be some mixture, the reality of humanities daily business is too vast to micro manage fully, and every economy is a blend.
Or not, we could just slowly march towards something better like we have throughout human history.
We are still here, so I don't understand how you get to the conclusion we have failed.
You forgot Trump, he can and will totally beat himself this next election.
Nothing, I think though that it is understanding that poor is kind of a loaded term though, do you mean homeless/nonfunctional, or just people that constantly can't seem to find a way to become successfully a part of the middle class.
How do you know this other than the obvious, we have more people in America than ever.
I agree Tech is our biggest hope, not only hope though. The world we live in (as much as people would like to sell otherwise) is constantly improving.
More important to this, everyone needs to be able to trust the information that they get. Russia has shown how well disinformation can be used to create a fact bubble for people online, making those people very easily tricked.
Here is my chicken now check my prostate kind of thing? No thank you, currency is just a way to easily exchange money, all the propaganda about this topic is a rabbit hole of lies designed to trick people into a us vs them mentality.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
No, the new CNN poll is not good news for Donald Trump on impeachment
www.cnn.com
(CNN)A new CNN poll shows that half the country believes that President Donald Trump should be not only impeached by the House, but also removed from office by the Senate.
That result is being spun in some corners of the internet as great news for Trump, because that 50% number is unchanged from a CNN poll in mid-October, the conclusion being that the last 10 days of public impeachment hearings have not convinced more of the public that the President needs to go.
Except that we are missing the forest for the trees here: A majority of the country believes the current President of the United States should be impeached and removed from office!
A quick check of history shows how strange that is.
The peak of support for the impeachment and removal of then-President Bill Clinton in 1998 was 29% in CNN polling. That's the highest that number ever went, despite the fact that the House Republican majority did vote to impeach late that year!
Ditto impeachment sentiment for the two presidents between Clinton and Trump. In a 2006 CNN poll, 30% of the public wanted George W. Bush impeached and removed from office; in 2014, 33% said the same of Barack Obama. (Unlike Trump and Clinton, neither Bush nor Obama ever faced any sort of formal impeachment investigation or vote.)
What those historical numbers tell us is that for at least the last two decades, there is roughly 30% of the country that is ready to impeach a president (usually of the party to which they do not belong) at all times.
What makes the Trump number so remarkable, then, is that 20% more of the public is now convinced not only that he should be impeached but that he should be removed from office -- despite the fact that, unlike Clinton, Bush and Obama when those CNN polls were taken, Trump will face voters in a bid for a second term in less than a year's time.
Now, it is fair to say that Democrats -- if you gave them truth serum at the conclusion of last week's public impeachment hearings -- believed they had hit a home run, and that polling would reflect that. That polling so far hasn't changed all that much is worth noting.
So that point is right -- for now. But it's also worth noting that we are in the immediate aftermath of the hearings, and its findings may not have fully seeped into the public consciousness just yet. And more importantly, whether it's 50% or 51% or 55%, it's noteworthy that a majority of the public wants the President gone.
Don't get so close to the painting that you can't see the full picture. And that full picture is this: 50% of the public believes Trump should be impeached and removed -- almost double the amount who have said that about any of his three most recent predecessors, including one who was actually impeached by the House.
Don't lose sight of those facts amid the narrow focus on whether the impeachment numbers have moved since the last poll. That 50% number is both astounding and ahistorical.
No, the new CNN poll is not good news for Donald Trump on impeachment | CNN Politics
A new CNN poll shows that half the country believes that President Donald Trump should be not only impeached by the House, but also removed from office by the Senate.
(CNN)A new CNN poll shows that half the country believes that President Donald Trump should be not only impeached by the House, but also removed from office by the Senate.
That result is being spun in some corners of the internet as great news for Trump, because that 50% number is unchanged from a CNN poll in mid-October, the conclusion being that the last 10 days of public impeachment hearings have not convinced more of the public that the President needs to go.
Except that we are missing the forest for the trees here: A majority of the country believes the current President of the United States should be impeached and removed from office!
A quick check of history shows how strange that is.
The peak of support for the impeachment and removal of then-President Bill Clinton in 1998 was 29% in CNN polling. That's the highest that number ever went, despite the fact that the House Republican majority did vote to impeach late that year!
Ditto impeachment sentiment for the two presidents between Clinton and Trump. In a 2006 CNN poll, 30% of the public wanted George W. Bush impeached and removed from office; in 2014, 33% said the same of Barack Obama. (Unlike Trump and Clinton, neither Bush nor Obama ever faced any sort of formal impeachment investigation or vote.)
What those historical numbers tell us is that for at least the last two decades, there is roughly 30% of the country that is ready to impeach a president (usually of the party to which they do not belong) at all times.
What makes the Trump number so remarkable, then, is that 20% more of the public is now convinced not only that he should be impeached but that he should be removed from office -- despite the fact that, unlike Clinton, Bush and Obama when those CNN polls were taken, Trump will face voters in a bid for a second term in less than a year's time.
Now, it is fair to say that Democrats -- if you gave them truth serum at the conclusion of last week's public impeachment hearings -- believed they had hit a home run, and that polling would reflect that. That polling so far hasn't changed all that much is worth noting.
So that point is right -- for now. But it's also worth noting that we are in the immediate aftermath of the hearings, and its findings may not have fully seeped into the public consciousness just yet. And more importantly, whether it's 50% or 51% or 55%, it's noteworthy that a majority of the public wants the President gone.
Don't get so close to the painting that you can't see the full picture. And that full picture is this: 50% of the public believes Trump should be impeached and removed -- almost double the amount who have said that about any of his three most recent predecessors, including one who was actually impeached by the House.
Don't lose sight of those facts amid the narrow focus on whether the impeachment numbers have moved since the last poll. That 50% number is both astounding and ahistorical.
Justin-case
Well-Known Member
Trump has still has a small chance of winning...if he endorses his opponent.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
He might be removed, we will see soon enough, have some faith in Mitch McConnell as a sneaky asshole, a simple majority makes it a secret vote. Besides there are plenty of republican senators who don't run until 2022 or 2024, Trump will be dead or in prison by then and the base has a short memory. There is a small chance he will win, he never won the last time he had less votes than Clinton and the Russians interfered in the election on his behalf. He will most likely lose the 2020 election and take the GOP senate with him when he goes. He will try to start a civil war, if he can, when he loses, but his base are losers and they will lose that too.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
The wise learn from the past and their mistakes. America will learn from its mistakes too, or die as a free people
Communist Dreamer
Well-Known Member
1) I don't see it that way. Communism is people oriented, while capitalism is thing oriented.
2) Guess I'm jaded. Stories like when Anton Yelchin's family was sued because they wanted answers, but that'd embarrass Jeep's bottom line makes me sick.
3) Just look online. Look at all the sickening comments on YT. They're like a cancer there. Just look on any Steven Crowder video to how much we've failed at what tech has brought us, rather than should and its potential.
4) He already has, by not understanding what life is really about, love and compassion, which he lacks.
5) When I go just about three blocks from my lovely community, at the over pass there's a tent city, where everyone was out in the cold last night. While my biggest worry was slight insomnia with waking up after a night terror right now not quite six hours later. I sometimes get those, yeah.
6) No, we haven't failed so much, yet, but I fear we're going that direction, especially if we can elect someone like Trump. I've failed to with Fogdog is what I meant.
7) People have, and will always have evil in their heart. That makes me sad because I don't have any. People see a 1984 constant surveillance as a horror, I see it as the only way. Religion hasn't worked. I beat to life with my own drum, but there's sickos out there who just don't have that. We need protection from the few percent. I think it's said something like only 3% are needed to affect others lives. If someone can't do it, we haven't enriched their evil heart, we just but that genie in a bottle.
True, not everyone believes their conviction first, and is easy to lash out first about nothing at all. People truly are stupider than most give credit.9) You have that opinion and I respect it. But, the topics like rent control and Monopolies make me think otherwise. We can constantly print money and fake capital. You can't fake a surplus, when you clearly see a physical resource just isn't there for you to buy, no matter how much money you have.
Take for example. Over the last four months I was looking for a particular vintage guitar. Then I found it, and got a deal at a third of its value. Near mint condition, sounds better than others I've seen in better condition. It was like my own version of a miracle.
At first I thought the seller was a scam, but I was so desperate, and just jumped.
I'm glad I did. But despite capitalism, that's part of the miracle too.
My point is, I'd have gladly spent three times for what I got now. But I couldn't over four months no matter how much I tried. Once something is gone, it's gone.
Fiat capital gives the illusion the Earth can keep giving, if you just have enough money. Which isn't true.
Hope that helps? Oh and good morning!
Jimdamick
Well-Known Member
Don't be so jaded, it's not good for one's mental health.
There's millions of us in this World that strive for goodness against evil (everyone that voted against Trump for instance), and historically, we have won in the end of the day..
Trump is an aberration, a bump in the road that will be dead in 10 years and will mean shit in the Big Picture of existence
One way or the other, the righteous always will prevail
At least that's my experience
Communist Dreamer
Well-Known Member
I don't see him as an aberration. Well, kind of. His unique feature is he seems to have some fort of Tourette's which gives us insight into how all billionaires think but don't say aloud. That's a blessing in disguise.Don't be so jaded, it's not good for one's mental health.
There's millions of us in this World that strive for goodness against evil (everyone that voted against Trump for instance), and historically, we have won in the end of the day..
Trump is an aberration, a bump in the road that will be dead in 10 years and will mean shit in the Big Picture of existence
One way or the other, the righteous always will prevail
At least that's my experience
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
What does that even mean? Capitalism is decisions made by people buying and selling their goods, communism is still the same people, making the same decisions. Just one 'system' is designed to take the decision making of how to go about bringing things to the market out of peoples hands and into the government.
Yeah, I look at things like men in our country are no longer legally allowed to treat women like house rape slaves, we are no longer doing whatever we used to do with handicapped people and actually opened up our society to them being productive members of society. We have done much in delegalizing racial discrimination. Little things, there is still a tremendous amount of sadness and vile acts we do to each other, and horrific events will happen, but we are getting better.
You are falling into the trap set by the Russians and other hate trolls have set. Those comments are flooded with the trolls that are using it to manipulate our society. They have figured out how to weaponize social media by flooding the ones they want highlights with 'views', likes, and comments to push those stories into the top of the lists. Then use the comments to flood out any actual peoples thoughts, making actual dialog impossible.
It sucks that we closed down all the mental health facilities in the 80's so that the Republicans could give the rich massive tax breaks. Since then we have been mostly under Republican rule who have branded anything not in the Wealthy White Heterosexual Male agenda socialism or immoral. Once the Democrats can overcome the 50 year bridge burning that the Republicans have been doing to the power of our government to keep theirs as long as possible, I think we are really poised to do some great things as a country.
I think this sounds great, but I take a more realistic stance. We are all people, its great to say your a good person, but usually that just means you have not had to make very many no win decisions. Until push comes to shove, nobody knows how they will really react. Mostly people are just ignorant of others around them and end up hurting people not understanding how it is happening, or even worse with good intentions. The rest mostly have something that went very very wrong and we are just starting to understand how bran chemistry and everything else works so have to this point just deemed it 'evil'
I agree with surveillance, I think we need to have total access to every bit of our own data for free though and need to know if people access our data and get a small cut from them using it.
Or more predictable.
Maybe try to consider money as a replacement to the value of one unit of labor. If it takes one hour to earn enough to eat a meal, it doesn't matter if that meal cost $5 or $50 at the end of the day really as long as it took the same effort in earning it.
I didn't understand that last bit. Good morning to you too.
Grandpapy
Well-Known Member
Commerce needs more folks like you to ignore it.
Because nobody has heard that line before. Please make the world a better place and never repeat that stupid quote again. It's nonsense. 2 in the hand better than one in the bush.
Communist Dreamer
Well-Known Member
1) Not the way I see Capitalism. It's a system where the Capitalist class through capital buys labor, who's only goal is to exploit the worker, in order to get more capital. With every cycle of capitalist's investment cycle, through the law of entropy, real capital goes down. Their only solution is the worker gets less of their capital than what they really did the previous correction.
2) Agree.
3) I don't agree. When people think they're anonymous, they tend to show what's truly in their heart that they pretend isn't there out of fear of getting rejected.
4 & 5) I partially agree. Republicans and Democrats are the same, like a good cop and bad cop. You seem to be falling into the trap there's such a thing as a good side to the politics we're given, rather than find our own, and reject what they present.
7) We seem to have minor difference in this regard, so I'll let this one pass.
Rather they have better methods of predicting, we've always been predictable.9) That's the point. But others don't get that. They seem to think, for example, that raising minimum wage does a damn thing. All it does is make the rich richer but for everyone other than the "1%" the only thing that's accomplished is there's a new floor for the poor, and you didn't get rid of their ceiling. A partial solution within the capitalist system is price fixing goods and services with floors and ceilings, and various government programs.
I was trying to explain a resource based economy. My guitar was an example. A certain 50 year old guitar is a limited resource. Sure you can make new ones, but you can't make mine from 1970 unless they invent a time machine.
No matter the fact I was willing to pay three times the amount, I couldn't, because the guitar is just so rare. Apparently the guy was being generous, wanted fast cash, or didn't know what he had. In any event, I wasn't about to look a gift horse in the mouth, and snatched it up ASAP!
I could've been a billionaire and not got one as fast either.
Money doesn't mean anything, and will mean less and less unless we convert to a system which values the resource, rather than the symbol which represents a possibility of acquiring the real thing you're after.
It gives us false hope, and one day we'll end up like what happened to the Confederate states. They woke up one day a millionaire, and their fiat money is worthless.
Resources like gold, land, etc, even if like this video on YT I saw which parodied Canada taking over, making the US dollar worthless. Those with actual resources rather than fiat currency will see no difference.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Funny enough I see it as people sell their labor and use it to purchase goods and services.
And so I wanted to see what nutty economics we are dealing with you... "Law of entropy" led me to "Thermoeconomics" which turns out to be "Heterodox economic methodology (lol love the meaningless term to try to sound more legit)", which turns out to just be another neoclassical con job.
Real capital may degrade (accounting principles have bookkeeping methods to track this loss), but that doesn't mean that it is not replaceable, or that more and more is not built up to add to the existing system. Does your system of economics have a way to add back in real investment? You say that the only solution is that workers get less of less right? But what about if the business is growing?
This is not a matter of disagreement though, it is a fact that Russian bot trolls are spamming the crap out of comment sections like youtube.
This has not been the case since the 70's. The Republican party switched to absorb the Wealthy White Heterosexual Male Only agenda. Left the Democrats with the responsibility to govern for the entire country. This is really the first time in the world that a country has elected leaders that (are getting closer and closer anyways) truly represent the entire nation's people understanding of our nation from different perspectives.
You are falling into the trap that somehow a black man and middle class woman who both built themselves up to being highly successful leaders in our country is in anyway comparable to the power structure of anywhere ever. The Democrats have only actually had federal power for about 6 years. It is not the same, regardless of how it 'feels'.
Right on.
This about what you wrote here. You understand that raising minimum wage is just a nominal adjustment, but then you say it makes the rich richer, it doesn't, it really doesn't affect them either.
So in this example, you are the wealthy taking advantage of the poor.
I am betting on the United States of America outlasting me, so I will go ahead and continue to use my fiat currency that is fully backed by our government. If America falls, chances are whatever gold I could scrape together in a couple lifetimes would really do much other than getting my ass robbed when I try to use it in a post apolocyltic world. I would rather have some nice heaps of compost and a seed collection than gold. Maybe toilet paper too. And socks.
tangerinegreen555
Well-Known Member
America has never 'loved' Trump, that's total bullshit.
53.9% of the electorate didn't vote for him in 2016.
He managed to sneak in the backdoor from a perfect storm of Russian hacking and interference, Comey announcing he was reopening the Hillary investigation a couple days before the election, low voter turnout in a half dozen key states, two candidates with more negatives than positives, Hillary was not a good campaigner or inspiring speaker, the general desire for change that almost always happens because nobody is ever satisfied, voter suppression and the outdated 18th century electoral college.
Trump has never seen a 50% approval rating let alone 60% that would tend to indicate 'love'.
The majority of America doesn't like Trump, a large percentage of republicans don't like Trump (albeit secretly because they stick together for judges, tax cuts and jesus fantasies), and the support he does have will die off in the next decade.
Trump will be stopped in 2020 by turnout alone, the 2018 election demonstrates the trend and the impeachment hearing clips will make fabulous negative ads which is what Pelosi is counting on as the consolation prize.
The most accurate polls show 50% rock solid support for impeachment for over a month now. They may not be rising but they aren't sinking either.
This is a corrupt administration easily exposed, and only 15% of the electorate is really up for grabs which could shrink to 10% or less with a massive turnout.
The only wildcards here are more Russian interference, more voter suppression and a Dem candidate who people become afraid of over losing their health insurance. Trump tried to end the ACA and it backfired. Dems would be smart to leave it alone until at least until after the election. Medicare for all is 20 years away or longer, the ACA could work with some drug and hospital price control.
And global warming is really the number one issue if you care about your kid's future. Start soon to radically cut emissions or watch the planet burn and flood.
And we could use a little good luck.
53.9% of the electorate didn't vote for him in 2016.
He managed to sneak in the backdoor from a perfect storm of Russian hacking and interference, Comey announcing he was reopening the Hillary investigation a couple days before the election, low voter turnout in a half dozen key states, two candidates with more negatives than positives, Hillary was not a good campaigner or inspiring speaker, the general desire for change that almost always happens because nobody is ever satisfied, voter suppression and the outdated 18th century electoral college.
Trump has never seen a 50% approval rating let alone 60% that would tend to indicate 'love'.
The majority of America doesn't like Trump, a large percentage of republicans don't like Trump (albeit secretly because they stick together for judges, tax cuts and jesus fantasies), and the support he does have will die off in the next decade.
Trump will be stopped in 2020 by turnout alone, the 2018 election demonstrates the trend and the impeachment hearing clips will make fabulous negative ads which is what Pelosi is counting on as the consolation prize.
The most accurate polls show 50% rock solid support for impeachment for over a month now. They may not be rising but they aren't sinking either.
This is a corrupt administration easily exposed, and only 15% of the electorate is really up for grabs which could shrink to 10% or less with a massive turnout.
The only wildcards here are more Russian interference, more voter suppression and a Dem candidate who people become afraid of over losing their health insurance. Trump tried to end the ACA and it backfired. Dems would be smart to leave it alone until at least until after the election. Medicare for all is 20 years away or longer, the ACA could work with some drug and hospital price control.
And global warming is really the number one issue if you care about your kid's future. Start soon to radically cut emissions or watch the planet burn and flood.
And we could use a little good luck.
knucklehead bob
Well-Known Member
United States currency(Petro Dollar) is backed with the barrel of a gun & the threat of death & destruction , that is all .
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Well that has pretty much been good enough for all of human civilization, so for the foreseeable future it will have to do.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
I am not sure, I think it is all about timing, the house will for sure impeach him on breaking the law with obstructing justice by withholding the whistle blower complaint for longer than legally allowed and commanding his minions to not adhere to the legally issued congressional subpoena.
The Republicans are the wild card, Trump has to hope that they are not left with nothing to lose after the upcoming primaries for their senate seats. I think they are doing a combo of waiting to force Trump to not shut down the government with not signing the budget (backlash would end Trump immediately), and then to make sure they have him on a leash for their senate runs. If they stall past the election, Trump is screwed either way I would bet.