Republicans fuck America, again

[DIY-HP-LED]

It's just another example of how even the innocent suffer under the heel of Trump

 

[Fogdog]

That is kind of why I am hopeful in the face of everything that is going on. Trump has to continue to pump out his lies to keep giving his troll army something to try to keep the 30% or so of our population inside of his cult. And the more visible he is doing it, the more people will be forced into admitting how horrendously full of shit he actually is.

Up until now I could see how a rational person could have actively avoided news outside of the couple times they tune into Fox/Sinclair 'local tv news stations' and hate radio from time to time could be snowballed into having a rational response to ignoring what all the actual news stations are broadcasting and having to form a single opinion.

Think about the fact that almost everyone on the major platforms and forums like this one are unable to log in and not have a mountain of spam to try to keep up with if they want to be 'informed' in that forum, and if they don't realize that as they move around and read the comments/troll headlines the same militarized trolls are making it seem like some convergence of logic when it is really smoke and mirrors.

Using your wife analogy, the wife beater can only blame it on being drunk if they are drunk when they are beating their wife. After they have to get their frustrations with the world out on her while sober, they can't claim to be a 'mean drunk' anymore.

Actually, being drunk isn't an excuse to beat anybody. Not legally and not morally. Most times, a drunk person can still tell the difference between right and wrong. But that's a side point to your post.

It is impossible for those Fox or hate radio consumers to avoid news that shows floods in South Carolina and the soon-to-be flooding in heretofore dry sections in Florida due to the tropical storm passing through there today. If those people hew to their own news, even there the discussion of climate change will inevitably come up. So, yes, you are right in that the massive propaganda campaign against taking action against say, human caused global warming is effective. However, anybody seeking an answer to that flooding won't find one there. The point I'm making is probably the same as yours but cast differently. I'm saying that Queen2's attempts to communicate with right wingers falls on deaf ears. Those people aren't trying to listen, much less communicate back. It's one-way communication. That she says "The common ground is communication" ignores what I see as an absence in even attempting to communicate by Trump's supporters. They support "We are going to go in and clean out Portland". Well eff that and eff them. They threaten instead of "try to find common ground".

You say it yourself, Trump and his Republicans are the party of white male entitlement. They have no motivation right now to talk and I don't see them even trying.

 

[Fogdog]

This is what it has come to folks, you are now the ILLEGAL ALIENS who carry a plague, I expect "caravans" of the destitute next! Shunned by civilization, the mark of Trump upon your foreheads...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Americans, Go Home: Canadians Track U.S. Boaters Sneaking Across The Border

U.S. pleasure boats have been sneaking into Canada despite a border shutdown. A group of Canadian retirees is on the lookout for violators from the "petri dish" that is America.

www.npr.org

Americans, Go Home: Canadians Track U.S. Boaters Sneaking Across The Border

Canadians are typically seen as pretty friendly people, and until the coronavirus pandemic, most were happy to welcome Americans.

But when the coronavirus began to quickly spread in March, the U.S. and Canada shut their shared border to all nonessential traffic.

Since then, Canada's border patrol has effectively prevented caravans of Americans — and their RVs and their campers — from surging across the border as they normally do each summer.

But Americans can be crafty.

Some have managed to enter Canada by telling border patrol officers that they are on their way to Alaska. This is known as the "Alaska loophole."

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police fined several Americans who were hiking near Lake Louise in Alberta. Lake Louise is not on the way to Alaska.

Fed up, Canada announced last week that it is cracking down on Americans who apparently don't know which way is north.

The Americans are coming, the Americans are coming

Foreigners are also arriving by boat, often on sailboats and luxury yachts. Many seek refuge in British Columbia's protected inland waters and marine parks, which are home to pods of killer whales and abundant wildlife.
more

I demand that Canada recognize my right to declare SARS-CoV-2 a hoax and drop i's travel restrictions at our border. Because first amendment.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I demand that Canada recognize my right to declare SARS-CoV-2 a hoax and drop i's travel restrictions at our border. Because first amendment.

That was a troll on "white" America, the Trumpers who lurk, but no longer speak, liberals know better.

 

[Fogdog]

Speaking of refusing to communicate, here is an example of Trump's deliberate attempt to ruin what few facts we have on the epidemic:

COVID-19 Hospital Data System That Bypasses CDC Plagued By Delays, Inaccuracies

The Trump administration had promised complete, transparent information on the coronavirus and hospital capacity. Instead, the new system has produced erratic updates and confusing numbers.

www.npr.org

Earlier this month, when the Trump administration told hospitals to send crucial data about coronavirus cases and intensive care capacity to a new online system, it promised the change would be worth it. The data would be more complete and transparent and an improvement over the old platform run by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, administration officials said.

Instead, the public data hub created under the new system is updated erratically and is rife with inconsistencies and errors, data analysts say.

I'm guessing that Jared Kushner is behind this particularly nasty shot at science and communication.

 

[hanimmal]

Actually, being drunk isn't an excuse to beat anybody. Not legally and not morally. Most times, a drunk person can still tell the difference between right and wrong. But that's a side point to your post.

It is impossible for those Fox or hate radio consumers to avoid news that shows floods in South Carolina and the soon-to-be flooding in heretofore dry sections in Florida due to the tropical storm passing through there today. If those people hew to their own news, even there the discussion of climate change will inevitably come up. So, yes, you are right in that the massive propaganda campaign against taking action against say, human caused global warming is effective. However, anybody seeking an answer to that flooding won't find one there. The point I'm making is probably the same as yours but cast differently. I'm saying that Queen2's attempts to communicate with right wingers falls on deaf ears. Those people aren't trying to listen, much less communicate back. It's one-way communication. That she says "The common ground is communication" ignores what I see as an absence in even attempting to communicate by Trump's supporters. They support "We are going to go in and clean out Portland". Well eff that and eff them. They threaten instead of "try to find common ground".

You say it yourself, Trump and his Republicans are the party of white male entitlement. They have no motivation right now to talk and I don't see them even trying.

I think that there is a difference to consider between people actually looking to have a conversation and those that stumble across one. (IRL, online it is generally a complete waste of time).

Those people who think that about Portland or other cities are being shown highly specific immages on a loop, that they are told to care about online from their 'friends' and when they try to talk about it with people in the real world they end up in a fight and alienate the people around them the same way that they are being alienated by their likewise propagandized counterparts.

That is why I stick to the blocking and tackling. If the people can't wake up to how the attack on them is being conducted, you can't get to common ground, because you can't even agree on the facts.

 

[Fogdog]

That was a troll on "white" America, the Trumpers who lurk, but no longer speak, liberals know better.

I got it. I was trying to make a funny. The tag line, "Because first amendment. " Was supposed to be the tell.

So, I failed. Nothing new about that.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I demand that Canada recognize my right to declare SARS-CoV-2 a hoax and drop i's travel restrictions at our border. Because first amendment.

You'd have better luck as a refugee, seriously, you'd have a case!

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I got it. I was trying to make a funny. The tag line, "Because first amendment. " Was supposed to be the tell.

So, I failed. Nothing new about that.

I thought it was funny!

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I got it. I was trying to make a funny. The tag line, "Because first amendment. " Was supposed to be the tell.

So, I failed. Nothing new about that.

Sometimes people laugh and joke even on the gallows... Breaks the tension.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I got it. I was trying to make a funny. The tag line, "Because first amendment. " Was supposed to be the tell.

So, I failed. Nothing new about that.

Here's one to save from Churchill and said about Americans, "the only thing worse than having allies, is not having them".

 

[Fogdog]

I think that there is a difference to consider between people actually looking to have a conversation and those that stumble across one. (IRL, online it is generally a complete waste of time).

Those people who think that about Portland or other cities are being shown highly specific immages on a loop, that they are told to care about online from their 'friends' and when they try to talk about it with people in the real world they end up in a fight and alienate the people around them the same way that they are being alienated by their likewise propagandized counterparts.

That is why I stick to the blocking and tackling. If the people can't wake up to how the attack on them is being conducted, you can't get to common ground, because you can't even agree on the facts.

So, keep it up. You are good at that. Somebody has to reach out and I respect that.

I'm just saying, I don't think Trump's people are listening. At all.

Germans managed to avoid believing stories about the horrors that must have been circulating inside Nazi Germany for years about what their boys were doing on the Russian front. They didn't believe until forced to walk through a death camp. Getting to that point took annihilation of their army. Some messages need to be backed with a stern resolve and defeating their leaders. I think we'll give a nonviolent, stunning and painful message this November. Maybe then some will listen. Hey, we managed to peel three percent away with actual facts about the epidemic and Floyd's murder. That's progress, I guess.

 

[Fogdog]

Here's one to save from Churchill and said about Americans, "the only thing worse than having allies, is not having them".

"laughter among the skulls" was a line Churchill wrote in his history of WW2.

He described an incident in a meeting with allies during a trip to the US in very dark times of the war. They were discussing technology for setting up unsinkable docks at beach heads after D-Day. One demo was of a block of ice that was frozen with straw or other inert material mixed in. One knucklehead demonstrated how tough the block was by shooting into it. The bullet ricocheted an nearly hit a high official. Guards rushed in, thinking there had been an assassination attempt. The scene was so ridiculous everybody started laughing. He called it "laughter among the skulls".

 

[hanimmal]

So, keep it up. You are good at that. Somebody has to reach out and I respect that.

I'm just saying, I don't think Trump's people are listening. At all.

Germans managed to avoid believing stories about the horrors that must have been circulating inside Nazi Germany for years about what their boys were doing on the Russian front. They didn't believe until forced to walk through a death camp. Getting to that point took annihilation of their army. Some messages need to be backed with a stern resolve and defeating their leaders. I think we'll give a nonviolent, stunning and painful message this November. Maybe then some will listen. Hey, we managed to peel three percent away with actual facts about the epidemic and Floyd's murder. That's progress, I guess.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
That is some perspective, it is so hard to believe it is only 3% from all this. He has snowballed people so much.

 

[Queen2Green]

I honestly can't remember all the specifics of our conversations but I will do my best to try and remember (or look back quick) for my responses to you. Also - gonna break it up in several responses..

Where did I say you said that?

In your reply to me I thought that is what you meant..
I said in a prior post reply: "The pandemic is the exact reason we need to further connect (communicate) (to thwart false info together)."
You said: "Sure but not in person, which come with distinct differences and a steep learning curve."

Who said anything about in person? What learning curve? We are already online.. talking.. but "maliciously" most the time. The most important things that seem to need to be "learned" are open-mindedness, communication, and common courtesy. "The benefit of doubt"

Maybe I'm super late to the "rollitup" political convo's.. Maybe there is valid "reasons" from the past, for all the blatent disrespect I see occuring here in the good ole politics forum towards new AND veteran members. Or maybe it's just the same ole shit-talk that will NEVER lead to the "changes" everyone is working so hard for. Idk. Guess that remains to be seen..

I try to stay openminded and do not judge anyone for their non-malicious viewpoints.. even when they are not beneficial to myself.. As long as they cause no harm - there is no foul. I understand that everyone's lives are different and their character has been shaped by their own experiences.. I realize that what's best for one or some, is not always best for all..

Once I've lurked (in politics) long enough, perhaps I'll see more clearly why folks treat random people in discriminatory ways. It bothers me because it is in it's own way the same inequality that most of us are fighting against - so - it truly boggles my fucking mind. It is certainly not what I expected from what I have always viewed as the more "decent" "caring" "accepting" side of the political spectrum.

From the initial general attack on my character for my viewpoints, and method of approach.. to the straight disrespect I see aimed at others with different opinions quite often.. I don't think I'm too far off in my thoughts on all this..

And yet you liked everyone of that guys posts last night where he was spreading propaganda or 'fake news' because as you felt 'CannaOnerStar actually has many valid points on the US..' . The problem is that partially true is the same as mostly full of shit.

Ok, now we have the "like" police-ing.. that's a first (shrugs) here we go.. First, I did NOT "like everyone" of his posts..
I liked his very valid points - many of which are aligned with thoughts of my own, or situations I'm aware of. Knowledge is power.. I really liked that no matter how much he was gaslighted or verbally abused - over and over - he kept his thoughts and convo tone cool af, continuing to represent his opinions in a respectful manner..

I "liked" a lot of his posts (some of which I didn't 100% agree with) because they were thought out and respectful. He was doing EXACTLY what I have been asking folks around here to do. Bring more reliable facts, sources, and communicate respectfully. I liked that.. hell yea I did what's not to be liked?

Many made valid points. I could not actually "like" them due to the delivery methods. Blatent bullying.. some folks are rude as fuck.. coming across as "intolerant" of any view outside their own beliefs. Especially if the person with a different viewpoint is not a "veteran" member. Give the vets respect, hell yea - I agree, love vets - represents loyalty. But not at the expense of running off all new voices and opinions.

It's ludicrous, and will never lead to the "change" needed. It's the opposite of equality.. Implying that someone who is new or has greater member status (not you, others did) makes you more or less politically correct in what you think.. rather than logical discource backed with facts and comprehension? Just your rollitup "status" makes your political thoughts relevant on a pot forum? Which party does that sound like a familiar (assumption) trait of? Certainly not "my" party. That is how I see folks treating people round here tho.

I didn't see many "full of shit" statements or opinions from him. Please explain.. I seen a whole lotta truths that were disregarded though. Along with twisted (1/2 fact) or completely false statements in response. Plus several links to sources that are biased. Thats just the truth as I seen it go down.. not my fault the truth often hurts.

You making shit up about me 'hating on strangers' about their 'registered party' is on you. I actually go out of my way to not call people racists because they vote for Republicans. Hell I even go as far as not calling them racists for falling for the racist propaganda.

Making up shit? Where? I'm not telling "you" personally to "stop judging." I'm saying people in general.. none of this is personal towards you hanimmal. I don't know you well enough for it to be so. My memory is not good enough to know who said what yesterday or even a few hours ago, sometimes even seconds later I forget... I have to go back and re-read for context, and sometimes to even just finish a current thought..

Of course I expect someone who asked me numerous questions to at minimum read the response. I was not hatefull in any way.. Otherwise, why bother asking? It's silly.. and unproductive. Folks just seem to want to create drama, rather than discuss or entice change. Feels like many are just as bad as the trolls and russians often spoken of.

You know what they say... "people may not always remember what you say, but they will certainly remember how you made them feel." That is all I am saying in general when it comes to mutual respect of folks. (When i say "you" I do not mean "you" personally, I'm just quoting a quote.)

If that's your true feelings towards others, then wonderful. Excellent! We need more people who think open-mindedly like that. My apologies if I ever came across where you thought I was referring to "you" specifically. I often talk third person and my "you" is referring to the Americans as a whole. Please do question me.. Question everything.. because it is important to fully understand one's intentions.

I've been fighting the same bs replies for so many days.. that I am so confused at this point. Which is chaotic in my mind... (that the context I meant in the fake news chaos comment.) To not be able to have civil discourse, without everything being taken out of it's original context, quoting half sentences, or one word of a paragraph.. backed up with many unreputable sources.. It's maddening. It's gaslighting.. it's chaos..

It's certainly not helpful... (to be continued..)

 

[Queen2Green]

Impressive that you had all that by early 2000.

Is that cynical sarcasm..? These types of comments make me curious how old you are? It really isn't impressive... I was late to the game, my ex husband had a cell a year that we "shared" before I got one.

My dad had a "box" cell in the 80s & 90s, for work. We lived in the boonies where folks think folks still have horses and wagons and most things are still to this day a good 20 years behind the rest of the world.

Do you see my point here yet? It's really not impressive.. It's just facts on the evolution of technology that you spoke of.. I can def agree that things were not "photographed or video" until after 2004.. that is still 16 years ago. I've seen alot. In real life... and on social media.

What I mean by 'realistic internet communication' I mean that when looking at when content from videos being recorded of issues facing the minority communities like police brutality and easily uploaded, there are many things that should be considered.

"Pre-camera" I was living it.. plus we did have "camcorders" back in the old days..how you think the Rodney King beating was recorded? Folks have been recording shit since that moment in time.. There was many devices for recording, pre internet and cell phone. We are not dinosaurs.. I base my hypothesis on facts+life experience. I just questioned what you meant..

Genuinely curious.. how old are you? As I said "camera by 2004", which pretty much aligns with your pic chart.. so your point there is unclear..Yes, many things to be considered.. agreed.. such as different perspectives of what each of our "reality" looks like.

And that is why I put the point out there that things 'seem' worse because online propaganda..

I found the way you were white knighting the dude making illuminitti conspiracies and their 'both siding' suspect, but I don't have any reason to doubt you are an American.

Things seem worse because they ARE worse..

"White knighting" is defined as going to great lengths to defend a point of view. The only person I've "white-knighted" on this site is my damn self - and I shouldn't have had to. It is actually quite tiring and the most perfect example of the gaslighting that occurs around here.

I had never posted here. Not one word. I would kinda expect (most places such as a pot forum) to be given the benefit of the doubt until "suspect." Like any decent and logical human being would typically do.. but that IS NOT what happened here. Yes my covid thread was inflammatory, the truth almost ALWAYS is.. Right now I'm actually referring to even PRIOR to that, the night before.

I 'dared' to speak (in my own way) on a political thread.. I was literally "cyber" attacked to the point I could not keep up with trying to explain. With lies, induedo's, assumptions, and bullying. By folks who couldn't even be bothered to go back and read to get a feel for the "context" of the conversation they were jumping in the middle of, with their insults.. so much so that I got pages and pages behind of everyone else.. It was fkn outrageous.

Yea.. I finally said it.. I wanted to say this before but I let it go, other than random sarcasm about it a few times.. I'm real open minded like that... I don't sweat the small shit - but I will remind folks when they have acted in such ways. I believe in something much bigger than all that "unneccessary abuse" of people.. I believe in CHANGE.. which is typically most easily achieved by communicating. I prefer to see bad actions, engage in discourse, prior to jumping to a conclusion that someone is just a shit human..

Some people just talk different. Words mean different things. Words have different context based on location - worldwide. There is a language/cultural barrier to break through from state to state in the US.. obviously it would be even more so when folks are talking from country to country.

At this point... if you were to actually doubt I am an American.. I wouldn't really have a response, or even be bothered by it. I've written a book in these forums and haven't even discussed 1/10 of my life. The depth is real. Just flabborgasted at the lengths one must go to, and still be having this conversation.

Yea.. I am definitely "white-knighting" .. on behalf of my damn self..

 

[hanimmal]

Who said anything about in person? What learning curve? We are already online.. talking.. but "maliciously" most the time. The most important things that seem to need to be "learned" are open-mindedness, communication, and common courtesy. "The benefit of doubt"

I said in person, right there you quoted it. I am not a fan of talking to people in anything but in person. Online is a bit easier because I can catalog my conversations and go back and look at what was said, but there are still so many miscommunications that it is difficult (and you have no clue who your talking to).

Maybe I'm super late to the "rollitup" political convo's.. Maybe there is valid "reasons" from the past, for all the blatent disrespect I see occuring here in the good ole politics forum towards new AND veteran members. Or maybe it's just the same ole shit-talk that will NEVER lead to the "changes" everyone is working so hard for. Idk. Guess that remains to be seen..

Yes, years of Russian (and other nations who should not be screwing attacking our citizens online) militarized trolling spamming the forum with fake accounts.

 

[Fogdog]

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
That is some perspective, it is so hard to believe it is only 3% from all this. He has snowballed people so much.

Is that bleak? I just see it as reality we have to face. We can't solve a problem if we mis-identify the cause. I much admire your relentless presentation of facts. To me, there is nothing in most of your posts to argue with.

For example, if lack of communication is the problem then by all means we need to amp that up. I see no evidence that Republicans who support Trump are listening to attempts to communicate from liberals. I see evidence to the contrary, I see and hear them mocking us for even trying.

If Trump's supporters are not listening to anything other than propaganda from Putin and his minions including Trump, and not even trying to communicate then, sure, let's correct their story but the answer lies elsewhere.

 

[Queen2Green]

I would say that the naivety of people who don't understand the power of data analyst are living in a bubble.

I agree? Therefore .. I am confused by this comment.

Peoples reactions to digital sources is very genuine. And there might be a good reason that 'life is starting to feel as chaotic as Fake News' (whichever you mean by invoking this particular phrase) I am guessing.

Our personal profiles and information have been being used since the birth of the internet and mobile devices to monitor our lives. This is nothing new, and to be completely expected. Technology is and has been advanced for quite a long time now.. Folks need to be more vigilant about the informational sources they allow into their lives. Accountability.

To be fair to @Fogdog it is incredibly hard to get past that first sentence and not just say fuck it and give up trying to talk reason with you when you keep conflating 'Republicans' with the vast majority of Republican politicians and Trump's cult.

To be fair, what is so wrong with the first sentence? That sounds weak, and not "thick-skinned" at all. Toughen up.. reality is a bitch. I was literally uclear on where I confused him at .. and stated so. I did not go back and edit, because he did not bother to read or explain where I confused him. AFTER quoting my post and asking me numerous questions, which I responded. So yeah.. the only person who should be saying "fuck it and give up" is me. Clearly I am not worth conversating with.

Conflating? Where am I combining all republicans "with the vast majority of republican politions and trumps cult?" Almost everyone here has been doing so, and I have been the one saying that concept is NOT right. That there are many good republicans that are aligned with democratic values but vote republican on certain things due to their livelihoods and potential policy implementation. I really think you are confused... and going way out of the realm of context I have personally been speaking in.

I will make this really easy on you... most of my "political" and "social" views are clearly stated for viewing throughout this forum now. You dont' have to conversate with me anymore. I am perfectly fine with that, no hard feelings, and best wishes to you.

And it gets even harder once you start calling everything people are posting in here as 'fake and twisted', when some of us stay firmly planted in reality and are actively trying to help people to learn the difference between the lies and fake cat fishing accounts and the people who would do our democracy harm.

Where did I do such a thing? Show me... until then that is not true, I do not think I would say that, because I do not believe that. I will go back and try to find any indication of what you claim.

I said that the same people who encourage others to post responsibly, will within moments post links from "biased" sources. This is true. I also said that most of what is posted is induendo or "half facts." Also true...

I don't think I've actually seen anyone "firmly planted in reality." Every person who has posted that I have had discourse with has at some point relied upon propaganda or bias to prove a point. Many relevant and accurate links have been discussed and shared as well. It's just to bad we ourselves can't take more accountablity for the information we spread. Especially when it is from a biased point of view. That is along the line of being the same thing the russians are doing... mind control through content..

I seriously don't even know anymore and I'm tired of being drawn into unproductive conversations which is why somewhere along the way I said I would see my way out... Don't feel like you have to respond. I don't have any questions for anyone here anymore. I was just answering yours.

Everything I just responded to was with a "smile" and openminded attitude. I'm not upset one bit. We are just communicating. I hope you are too..

 

[Queen2Green]

I said in person, right there you quoted it. I am not a fan of talking to people in anything but in person. Online is a bit easier because I can catalog my conversations and go back and look at what was said, but there are still so many miscommunications that it is difficult (and you have no clue who your talking to).

Lol... you're so fun that I'm all worn out. Literally.

YOU are the one who asked me "what I meant" and I responded that I thought you were referring to in person, and based my response on that.

So I tell you that... and you come back with "that is what I said."

I know that is what you said!!! I am the one who said that you said it!!!! Then you said: "where did I say that" so I told you!!!

sigh... gaslighting.. yall good at keeping a bitch completely confused.
(me... I am the bitch I am referring to)