Another gun thread

[Budley Doright]

Having been a middle-class opioid addict, I also find your characterizations to be sweeping. I was prescribed 200 mg of OxyContin a day.

I was later prescribed methadone 25 mg/day. I found that to be a tougher and much longer withdrawal event than from oxy.

I was lucky and was able to put them aside but it was the worst fucking 2 weeks of my life and I thought I was going to die . They had me doing 2-slow release 60’s a day and 4-quick 20’s a day when I left the hospital and that lasted 1 year till I finally realized I was taking them not for the pain anymore but just to feel normal .

 

[canndo]

Indeed. What it required of me was a sustained and uninterrupted act of will.
For oxy, about a week. Methadone, almost three months. There is something very wrong with methadone as an addiction treatment. It makes for a much harder weaning.

But it was never intended to wean off or treat addiction, it was supposed to be for maintenence, Long lasting and not particularly euphoric. (I thought it just alright but the duration is contrary to any sort of decent rush.
Oh, and merry Christmas to you and all.

 

[canndo]

there are always going to be people who have the strength of character, the resolve to step to the edge of the abyss, look down, and turn back...and there are always going to be people who throw themselves over the edge in a swan dive...glad you stepped back...but i have trouble believing that most people who get deeply addicted don't eventually take that dive, after having watched a dozen or so end up homeless, broke, in jail or treatment, neither of which does fuck all for most of them....a few of them dead. you never know if you have that resolve till you look, and you don't know that you'll have it next time...till you look again

You seem to see this oppositely than I. I see those unfortunates who succumb as failures in the art of indulgence. When I see a man with a snifter of brandy, I don't think that he must have narrowly avoided the inevitable descent into spousal abuse and cardboard housing.

But it is the same ethanol.

I know doctors, engineers, scientists and managers who covet their occasional relaxation into the arms of morphious.

I think it odd that we go to those most successful in sports, business and the arts in order to gain insight into their craft but inevitably seek the failures in the craft of opiate use for their wisdom.

I don't ask a fallen lottery winner how to manage my money and I don't ask an alcoholic how to drink.

In my opinion, all drugs fall upon a spectrum where one side is detriment and danger and the other is reward and benefit. Hallucinogens seem to be on the far right, opiates on the left but neither is deterministic.

 

[canndo]

Yeah...stereotype


The last meth "addict" I knew was a cancer nurse. The poor woman sold her home and spent all the proceeds on a very long weekend in Las Vegas, handing all her friends $100 bills after putting them all up in suites at the venetian.

She then tried and failed to take her life with a big glass of antifreeze. She was more successful with a shot of insulin.

See, she had lung cancer and didn't want to go the way of her patients.


She died with a full head of teeth.

 

[canndo]

According to the 2016 National Survey on Drug Use and Health:

• 0.2% of people (roughly 475,000 people) aged 12 and older report using heroin in the past month
• 0.4% (roughly 948,000 people) reported using it in the past year
• 1.8% (roughly 4,981,000 people) reported using at least once in their lifetime

Deaths from heroin overdose nearly tripled from 2010 to 2013. However, it is important to note that the vast majority of people who have ever used opioids – whether prescription medications or heroin – never develop problematic use.

 

[injinji]

Merry Christmas everybody.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

However, it is important to note that the vast majority of people who have ever used opioids – whether prescription medications or heroin – never develop problematic use.

citation plz? i'd very much like to see some documentation on that factoid...

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

You seem to see this oppositely than I. I see those unfortunates who succumb as failures in the art of indulgence. When I see a man with a snifter of brandy, I don't think that he must have narrowly avoided the inevitable descent into spousal abuse and cardboard housing.

But it is the same ethanol.

I know doctors, engineers, scientists and managers who covet their occasional relaxation into the arms of morphious.

I think it odd that we go to those most successful in sports, business and the arts in order to gain insight into their craft but inevitably seek the failures in the craft of opiate use for their wisdom.

I don't ask a fallen lottery winner how to manage my money and I don't ask an alcoholic how to drink.

In my opinion, all drugs fall upon a spectrum where one side is detriment and danger and the other is reward and benefit. Hallucinogens seem to be on the far right, opiates on the left but neither is deterministic.

doctors, engineers and scientists aren't poor people living hand to mouth, just waiting for a problem to destroy what little lives they have...
i don't really idolize athletes, or business people, and while i admire most good artists, i still don't seek their opinions about anything except the field of art they excel in. they're opinions about society, politics, natural science...all no more valid than anyone else's....i know that just as many, if not more people ruin their lives with alcohol as with heroin, but it usually takes a good bit longer, and they're usually better at covering it up till it gets extreme, so it's harder to follow their descent than with most heroin or meth addicts, whose descents into hell are usually much more rapid and dramatic...
you may be one of those rare individuals who can indulge, then step back, but just because you can, does not mean everyone can, it doesn't even mean that many can...it just means that you've been able to, so far...there are people out there that shouldn't indulge in anything, they barely have the mental acuity and willpower to make it through a day totally straight, and those are the ones who self destruct, usually in a messy, splattering those around them with shit way

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

According to the 2016 National Survey on Drug Use and Health:

• 0.2% of people (roughly 475,000 people) aged 12 and older report using heroin in the past month
• 0.4% (roughly 948,000 people) reported using it in the past year
• 1.8% (roughly 4,981,000 people) reported using at least once in their lifetime

Deaths from heroin overdose nearly tripled from 2010 to 2013. However, it is important to note that the vast majority of people who have ever used opioids – whether prescription medications or heroin – never develop problematic use.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/prescription-drug-abuse/in-depth/how-opioid-addiction-occurs/art-20360372

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/opioids/science-of-addiction.html

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/addiction/opioid-use-disorder

https://www.unodc.org/documents/drug-prevention-and-treatment/nonmedical-use-prescription-drugs.pdf

https://addiction.surgeongeneral.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-generals-report.pdf

https://addiction.surgeongeneral.gov/sites/default/files/Spotlight-on-Opioids_09192018.pdf

all of this seems to say at least 20% of people prescribed opiates develop a problem with them...and that's just people who were prescribed opiates to begin with...i'm going to go out on a limb and say that those that procure opiates on their own will probably have a much higher incidence of problem usage, as they will usually have two or more of the "markers" that indicate a person is likely to develop such problems.
so 80% is larger than 20%...it is technically correct that more people use them and don't develop a problem, but those aren't very good rates...
would you fly in a plane that you knew had a 20% chance of crashing each flight? would you take a cruise with a company that lost 20% of its ships?
would you take a pill or injection that has a 20% chance of ruining your life? it seems so.

 

[Budley Doright]

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/prescription-drug-abuse/in-depth/how-opioid-addiction-occurs/art-20360372

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/opioids/science-of-addiction.html

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/addiction/opioid-use-disorder

https://www.unodc.org/documents/drug-prevention-and-treatment/nonmedical-use-prescription-drugs.pdf

https://addiction.surgeongeneral.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-generals-report.pdf

https://addiction.surgeongeneral.gov/sites/default/files/Spotlight-on-Opioids_09192018.pdf

all of this seems to say at least 20% of people prescribed opiates develop a problem with them...and that's just people who were prescribed opiates to begin with...i'm going to go out on a limb and say that those that procure opiates on their own will probably have a much higher incidence of problem usage, as they will usually have two or more of the "markers" that indicate a person is likely to develop such problems.
so 80% is larger than 20%...it is technically correct that more people use them and don't develop a problem, but those aren't very good rates...
would you fly in a plane that you knew had a 20% chance of crashing each flight? would you take a cruise with a company that lost 20% of its ships?
would you take a pill or injection that has a 20% chance of ruining your life? it seems so.

The high from smoking rock (for me anyways) is a quick trip to hell. Yes I don’t anymore because Im aware that even one draw from the pipe leads me to 4-5 nights of no sleep and a couple of grand gone. It has the most powerful draw of any drug I’ve taken…..way too scared to try meth even once lol. So yes I could see a person that didn’t have much to lose to begin with, having a tough time not falling into the rabbit hole. I’m glad I made it through the 80’s, way to much temptation lol.

 

[GoatSoup]

I found it interesting that this thread changed from Guns to Drugs. I find that gun owners tend to 'collect' guns in what could be called addiction.

 

[HGCC]

All threads wander eventually

 

[HGCC]

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/prescription-drug-abuse/in-depth/how-opioid-addiction-occurs/art-20360372

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/opioids/science-of-addiction.html

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/addiction/opioid-use-disorder

https://www.unodc.org/documents/drug-prevention-and-treatment/nonmedical-use-prescription-drugs.pdf

https://addiction.surgeongeneral.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-generals-report.pdf

https://addiction.surgeongeneral.gov/sites/default/files/Spotlight-on-Opioids_09192018.pdf

all of this seems to say at least 20% of people prescribed opiates develop a problem with them...and that's just people who were prescribed opiates to begin with...i'm going to go out on a limb and say that those that procure opiates on their own will probably have a much higher incidence of problem usage, as they will usually have two or more of the "markers" that indicate a person is likely to develop such problems.
so 80% is larger than 20%...it is technically correct that more people use them and don't develop a problem, but those aren't very good rates...
would you fly in a plane that you knew had a 20% chance of crashing each flight? would you take a cruise with a company that lost 20% of its ships?
would you take a pill or injection that has a 20% chance of ruining your life? it seems so.

20% is shockingly high, are they talking people with long term prescriptions for pain...or also including the people getting prescribed 20 or whatever when their wisdom teeth get pulled. If the later I find 20% unbelievable, I can see it developing a taste or whatever, but opiates are so widely prescribed that I can't believe 20% of that many people.

 

[outside Dixie]

Well printer...There are dumb ass people here..I am all for background checks registration..I had to do both .Any gun you buy is reg. Every town is not the same. I dont do the poltics of the gun stuff ..Simple Buy one.. or Don't..You choose. All for Background checks..Not going to reg, all my guns..just the ones i carry. But dont have too reg, any.. I choose too reg them.

 

[Rob Roy]

Well printer...There are dumb ass people here..I am all for background checks registration..I had to do both .Any gun you buy is reg. Every town is not the same. I dont do the poltics of the gun stuff ..Simple Buy one.. or Don't..You choose. All for Background checks..Not going to reg, all my guns..just the ones i carry. But dont have too reg, any.. I choose too reg them.

If background checks are needed to ensure a higher probability the person(s) being checked won't use guns in an offensive manner then the facts are in.

Here's what the facts reveal, if governments were mandated to pass a background check before being allowed to have guns, they would all fail.

Democide is one of the words you might consider. Yes, the world is insane and you've been lied to, often.

 

[CatHedral]

All threads lose their aim eventually

 

[CatHedral]

Well printer...There are dumb ass people here..I am all for background checks registration..I had to do both .Any gun you buy is reg. Every town is not the same. I dont do the poltics of the gun stuff ..Simple Buy one.. or Don't..You choose. All for Background checks..Not going to reg, all my guns..just the ones i carry. But dont have too reg, any.. I choose too reg them.

Why did you choose to register them when it was not mandatory? Or is it for carry weapons?

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Well printer...There are dumb ass people here..I am all for background checks registration..I had to do both .Any gun you buy is reg. Every town is not the same. I dont do the poltics of the gun stuff ..Simple Buy one.. or Don't..You choose. All for Background checks..Not going to reg, all my guns..just the ones i carry. But dont have too reg, any.. I choose too reg them.

I had to do both....

But dont have too reg, any.. I choose too reg them.

which is it? you had to do both, or you didn't have to do both?
there is no way to "register" a firearm that you buy person to person in Tn. ...i looked out of curiosity, there is no place to call, no form to fill out, no government office that will do that...that's just here of course, may be different in other places.

 

[OG-KGP]

I had to do both....

But dont have too reg, any.. I choose too reg them.

which is it? you had to do both, or you didn't have to do both?
there is no way to "register" a firearm that you buy person to person in Tn. ...i looked out of curiosity, there is no place to call, no form to fill out, no government office that will do that...that's just here of course, may be different in other places.

In Michigan there is. In fact, you have to have a background check and a permit to purchase for all sales whether from FFL, private party, or gun show. These documents have to be turned in no later than 10 days to the local police station after the sale is done.

 

[canndo]

citation plz? i'd very much like to see some documentation on that factoid...

I did, national survey on... at the top.

And of course, the figures themselves tend to indicate the same. Ours is not a nation packed with 4 million opiate addled street dwellers.