Light; marijuana; and lumens

ganjaluvr

Well-Known Member
My question is...

is there a bare minimum of lumens you must provide a plant that is in flowering? For it flower?

I mean.. does a plant need a certain amount of lumens from the lights to flower? Im not talking about flowering properly and nicely ya dig... I mean is there a amount you must provide your plant before it will start flowering/budding??

Just wondering.

peace. thanks for any help/advice appreciated.
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
My question is...

is there a bare minimum of lumens you must provide a plant that is in flowering? For it flower?

I mean.. does a plant need a certain amount of lumens from the lights to flower? Im not talking about flowering properly and nicely ya dig... I mean is there a amount you must provide your plant before it will start flowering/budding??

Just wondering.

peace. thanks for any help/advice appreciated.
The more the better. It's not dependent on lumens though as much as the photoperiod.
 

ganjaluvr

Well-Known Member
oh, alright.
I just thought I had read that some where... that when it comes to using CFL bulbs for growing marijuana.. that the user must have a certain amount of lumens.. or wattage for the plant to flower or bud at all.
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
Flowering is dependent on the light cycle. Cannabis starts to flower when there are 12 hours of darkness and 12 hours of light.

"Lumens" are a measure of visible light. Since plants can't see, lumens are really irrelevant when it comes to growing plants. Lumens are for humans =)

Naturally, more light is better... but it has to be light that the plants can use.
 

masterd

Well-Known Member
yeah, it can be extremely weak light, as long is its 12 12 it will flower, as long as its old enough, and as stated lumens mean nothing to a plant, its about micro einstein's, which from memory is a measure of usable light for plants, kinda like an average of lumens and kelven, and dont have a go at me about statement, its just a simplification, and im really wacked.....
 

strictly seedleSs

Well-Known Member
yeah, it can be extremely weak light, as long is its 12 12 it will flower, as long as its old enough, and as stated lumens mean nothing to a plant, its about micro einstein's, which from memory is a measure of usable light for plants, kinda like an average of lumens and kelven, and dont have a go at me about statement, its just a simplification, and im really wacked.....
WHOA! Lumens mean everything to the flowering period...and veg. You can grow herb with some 24w cfls...but its going to be a fluffy low yield. The plants grow slower...waaaaay slower. With a small hps
you should be okay for one plant. with a 400w hps your good for a 4'x4' area. Get a three or two part nute system, and adjusting the nutes as per the instructions also helps the plant to flower on time and fully developed. Dont waste your time with CFLs unless you buy a few of the 125w, and keep them close to the plant. Good luck and go buy the bible (growers bible) its only $30.
 

cee

Active Member
WHOA! Lumens mean everything to the flowering period...and veg. You can grow herb with some 24w cfls...but its going to be a fluffy low yield. The plants grow slower...waaaaay slower. With a small hps
you should be okay for one plant. with a 400w hps your good for a 4'x4' area. Get a three or two part nute system, and adjusting the nutes as per the instructions also helps the plant to flower on time and fully developed. Dont waste your time with CFLs unless you buy a few of the 125w, and keep them close to the plant. Good luck and go buy the bible (growers bible) its only $30.
I have heard that if you go from 400 W hps to 600 W hps you will almost double your yield on a 4 x 4 area. If the power use is not an issue I would pay the little extra for a 600 W ballast/bulb setup.
 

strictly seedleSs

Well-Known Member
I have heard that if you go from 400 W hps to 600 W hps you will almost double your yield on a 4 x 4 area. If the power use is not an issue I would pay the little extra for a 600 W ballast/bulb setup.

for sure. the lumens are almost doubled betwenn 400w and 600w. My last grow I used a 400w HPS and 8 24w cfls for the side of the grow where the light doesnt penetrate. I then used the same cfls for vegging, and my plants grew sooooo slow, I went out and bought a 40,000 lumen t5 fixture. Now my plants are kicking ass. If you do want to go the HPS way and you can afford a 600w (about $300 for the ballast bulb and hood) and you can control the temp (hps bulbs are HOT) then you will be a happy grower.
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
for sure. the lumens are almost doubled betwenn 400w and 600w. My last grow I used a 400w HPS and 8 24w cfls for the side of the grow where the light doesnt penetrate. I then used the same cfls for vegging, and my plants grew sooooo slow, I went out and bought a 40,000 lumen t5 fixture. Now my plants are kicking ass. If you do want to go the HPS way and you can afford a 600w (about $300 for the ballast bulb and hood) and you can control the temp (hps bulbs are HOT) then you will be a happy grower.
It's amazing to me how many people rely on lumen output when deciding what kind of lights to buy for growing.

It's not the amount of lumens that helps your plants grow. Lumens mean nothing when it comes to growing plants, since lumens are measurement of VISIBLE light (and plants don't have eyes). Floros put off a lot of usable light, since they emit mostly light in the blue/red spectrum depending on the color rating of the bulb. Plants use light in the blue/red ends of the spectrum, so any other light is wasted.

It doesn't matter how many lumens your bulb puts out, it matters what kind of light it's emitting and whether or not the plants can use it for photosynthesis.

You could have bulbs putting out 6 billion freaking lumens, but if they're emitting yellow, green, or orange spectrum light it's going to be completely useless to the plants.

Lumens themselves mean absolutely nothing to a plant.
 

strictly seedleSs

Well-Known Member
I doubt lumens have nothing to do with it. If my lumens are in red and blue (which they are) spectrums then do the lumens still mean nothing? So then do you look at the wattage of said flos? What determines which bulbs you buy?
 

klassenkid

Well-Known Member
could I then go and get a 24w blue CFL and expect it to do the same as a 125w blue cfl?
:clap::clap: Nice reply! Well said :D



Everybody else stop saying lumens mean nothing!!
If people JUST rely on lumens when buying any bulb then yes its stupid, but if its a 6500k cfl and has 900 lumen output its going to provide about half the amount of light a plant can take from it than a 1800 lumen output cfl. YES lumens are a measurement of what us humans see, but guess what. Our eyes are just like leaves in the way of sensing lights, we both absorb the light.
 

strictly seedleSs

Well-Known Member
I just googled this issue and this is what I found-


Hi folks,

The recent thread on this subject prods me to finally release an old note I did
on it a while back. Re-reading it, it still sounds reasonable, so here it is.
If you have trouble with the figure, try loading it into an editor without a
proportional font.

Lumens, Lux, Foot-candles and other photometric terms are based entirely on how
the average human eye perceives light. Standard observers were defined by
testing many individuals and averaging the results. CRI, Color Temperature and
a host of other common terms all derive from the original work of the
International Committee on Illumination (ICI, or CIE in the French version),
dating back almost 60 years.

Plants don't *have* human vision, so some judgement is required when trying to
use human-sensitive terms to define what our plants need. Sometimes, the exact
opposite of what we want can come from being too slavish to the desire for
"more lumens per Watt." To illustrate this point, look at the relative spectral
sensitivity curves of Figure 1. Plant growth rate is plotted as xxx, while
human eye sensitivity (Photopic, or daylight adapted) is plotted as ooo. The
vertical scales are adjusted so that there is approximately equal area under
each curve.

The dip in the green for plants is evident (they *do* reflect more green away)
and the green growth sensitivity is only about 1/4, compared to what our eye
perceives. In the violet and deep red, the plants have thousands of times more
sensitivity than the human eye. Our visual response in the visible blue and red
is only about 10% what it is in green and yellow.

Any sensible phosphor designer will tailor his lamp to match the human eye
curve, *if* the objective is to maximize lumens per Watt. This means that
phosphors wasting any energy in the blue and red are eliminated. The standard
"cool white" flourescent bulb is a superb example of this kind of engineering
raised to a very high art. The spectrum of cw bulbs closely matches the human
scotopic curve, yielding a lot of lumens/Watt, but only mediocre plant-growth
response. Photos taken under cw flourescents end up with a sickly green tint.

Most of us like to actually look at our plant tanks, so the cheaper
"plant/aquarium" bulbs that have big spikes in the blue and red, with almost no
green may give good growth, but should be only of interest to the pot grower or
other esthetically uninvolved user. A magenta glow is not very pleasing in an
underwater scene. [Spectacular for a tank of neons or cardinals, tho.]

The ideal spectrum for combined visual and growth purposes is a broad-band
source. In fact, an ordinary incandescent bulb, operating at a color
temperature of about 3200K, is nearly perfect. The one small flaw is the large
amount of heat it generates, for it doesn't fall off at wavelengths above
750nm, like the plant curve does. Halides are more efficient, so are even
better, but the heat is still a big problem.

Flourescent tubes are available that give pleasing color rendition, but still
provide better growth efficiency than "cool white." I have grown lush Riccia
fluitans under an 8W cool-white tube, for there is nothing that says plants
have *no* response in the visual region. It just *looks* very bright and
doesn't give the best plant growth.

For about four times the plant growth rate at a slight perceived drop in
brightness, either a daylight or GE Chroma 50 will give pleasant colors and
vigorous plant growth. Phillips Schedule 35 and most tri-phosphors work well,
too. None of these tubes are very expensive. I will reserve my thoughts on the
poorly-designed, unreliable, short-lived specialty tubes, called aquarium
bulbs, sold for four to ten times the price of these suggested, well-engineered
products.

Esthetically, I like a 50-50 combination of daylight and Chroma 50. With only
80W (2 40W tubes) in a shop-light fixture, over a 55G tank, the growth-limiting
factor definitely is CO2, not the light. That's only 1.5 Watts/Gallon, far
below the frequently suggested 2-4 W/G. Even with lower lumens or lumens/Watt
ratings, they are the *growth* equivalent of about 6W of "cool white" tubes.

*figure one can be found on the original website by clicking here*

I sincerely hope this helps clarify how we look at illumination sources for
both our visual stimulation and our plant growth.

My plant curve was derived from textbooks and was taken from data on emersed
plants. It is closer to our reality than the many studies I saw on algal
growth, which lends itself to lab analysis, but doesn't reflect higher-plant
reality very well.

Lumens are for "looking at..." Watts are energy. Neither is the whole answer.
Use good judgement in selecting the best for your tank.

Wright


--

Wright Huntley (408) 248-5905 Santa Clara, CA USA huntley at ix_netcom.com




So that is about growth for plants in aquariums, but they are plants none the less. So what Im understanding is that lumens dont have a big role in the growth, but that a HO bulb with the right color spectrum is supreme. And if you are using a small wattage bulb, regardless of the color spectrum, it will not give the plant full growth potential. I could be wrong, Im intrigued now. I always assumed high lumen output with the proper color was the ticket.
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
:clap::clap: Nice reply! Well said :D



Everybody else stop saying lumens mean nothing!!
If people JUST rely on lumens when buying any bulb then yes its stupid, but if its a 6500k cfl and has 900 lumen output its going to provide about half the amount of light a plant can take from it than a 1800 lumen output cfl. YES lumens are a measurement of what us humans see, but guess what. Our eyes are just like leaves in the way of sensing lights, we both absorb the light.
WRONG. Again, lumens are a measure of how much light we can SEE with our EYES. We don't absorb the light, and our eyes aren't anything like the leaves of a plant. Leaves don't "sense" light, either.

I'll say it again because it's true. Lumens mean nothing in regards to photosynthesis and how plants use light.

Watts are a different measurement entirely, so saying that lumens are important because a 42W bulb is better than a 26W bulb doesn't make any sense.
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
This question?

could I then go and get a 24w blue CFL and expect it to do the same as a 125w blue cfl?
You answered it yourself.

No, you can't expect a 24W bulb to do the same as a 125W bulb, but it has nothing to do with the lumen output since we've already established that lumens are simply visible light and plants don't have eyes.
 

strictly seedleSs

Well-Known Member
no this question-

"If my lumens are in red and blue (which they are) spectrums then do the lumens still mean nothing? So then do you look at the wattage of said flos? What determines which bulbs you buy?"
 
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