Oh Goodie! ... More on 911 (inside job) :)

[fdd2blk]

i did not want to post in here about this sense i am in the created by cj. fdd that vid sucks as soon as the wings would have hit the building they would have come off. that dismisses the vid right there.

i guess Purdue university is stupid.

can i see your source please?


https://www.rollitup.org/toke-n-talk/256322-pot-makes-you-stupid.html

 

[mexiblunt]

NIST says the plane that hit WTC1 had a full belly tank of fuel, purdue says it was empty? NIST says 9 of the 47 columns were damaged or destroyed Purdue says 57. They also say in their report is was AA77? In the same T.V show that had purdue's animation they shot a aluminum cylinder into a mock up pentagon. they scaled down the the pentagon and the cylinder but not the speed?

 

[GrowRebel]

Yes the only official three year report is bogus because GR says so. The rest of the country disagrees.

Yawn ... can't dispute the evidence so you make shit up... why yes ... I am in the videos ...simply stating the report is bogus... and the papers ...I did write. Those two white guys in the video ... that's me in make up!
You wish the rest of the country disagrees ... you have yet to prove it ... and you know why? .... cause you can't!Oh and I don't see any of you disputing the NIST own admission that I posted stating they didn't know what brought the towers down.

so now you will agree, even though it's not cut all the way thru?

Yes, I can agree it help neither side.

you do this for shits and giggles.

Nope.

Why do we need experts when we have your uneducated observations?

Says the guy that uses bogus reports to support a conspiracy theory most people don't buy. Can't handle the fact that experts show proof of a demo? Aw ... too bad ... so sad.

I guess the gig is up, you figured it all out. Wow! Just fing wow!

Keenly that video you posted with Willie Nelson, Alex Jones and Jessie Ventura really speaks volumes. Ventura said his inlaws simply refuse to even look at the evidence, they refuse to accept that high level government official would kill them. They just don't want to hear it. There will always be a part of the population, whose head simply can't wrap around that fact. ... picture the scene where Jack Nicolson's character screams "you can't handle the truth" in a "Few Good Men" ... They will deny even when it stares them in the face. This is the case of rick.

Ppl with youtube know more than experts.... right?

Aw ... no ... people with youtube can listen to real scientists and get the real facts. Youtube really blows your game doesn't it?

It's all based upon a political view

No ... it's base on scientific facts ... the papers are posted ... yet I don't see you disputing any of the science ... know why? ... cause you can't!

.... which immediately discredits the science being used.

Says the disinformation agent with ... as usual ... nothing to back his statement ... why am I not surprised?

i posted this earlier, you might have missed it, ...

That video shows a simulation of the plane hitting the tower and the damage to that area ... it does not explain why the building collapsed.

I haven't checked the news yet kids, but if I see something of interested I will post it.

 

[CrackerJax]

You have no proof ... poof.

If you had proof.... it would be in all the headlines.

It's all been looked at and has all been debunked..... every last piece of spliced vid and zoomed pics taken out of context and twisted like the center columns.

.

 

[NoDrama]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Has Uncle Sam Strayed? Is He Cheating on Us?[/FONT]
9/11 Wasn't the First and Won't Be the Last
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We make it easy for them. Lying to us is nothing. Our own government is a pack of philandering cheats, phony attacks, lying about wars, never a word of truth we can depend on. No matter what kind of outlandish thing they do, some "commission" covers it up. We don't need any of their blue ribbon commissions, we need a good divorce lawyer.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What happens when the delusional "super patriots" in our government go totally nuts on us as years of odd coincidences is beginning to prove to even the biggest dullards? What happens to keep one of their conspiracies from blowing up in their faces? First, word leaks out. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A few weeks later, anyone who says anything is called a "conspiracy nut." Newspapers can't carry stories once anyone says "conspiracy." What does it cause? Simple. Give a group total power to do anything they want, no matter how brutal, how insane. Make them above the law. Show them that anything can be covered up, that the press will no longer look into anything and that "national security" can be used to classify evidence for decades, even centuries and we have opened the door to barbarism.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Why is there a huge 9/11 conspiracy movement? Another no-brainer. It is no big stretch of the imagination that Bush, Cheney and Rove could get a pack of rogue CIA/Mossad folks to do anything if the end result ended up as the war Bush was put in office to start. We've been between the sheets with these folks for a long time, think about the USS Liberty. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Why are millions willing to believe Obama wasn't born in the US? Simple. If a secret group running our government could rig the Bush elections, blow up the World Trade Center, murder two Kennedy's, fill our streets with drugs and rob the entire planet's financial system, putting a Muslim from Kenya in the White House would be a piece of cake. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Where does this leave us? How does a generation of Americans live when confronted with one inexplicable thing after another, all having the look of being a bit too convenient and happening at just the right time. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Many Americans pick up a newspaper or watch TV and as soon as they hear a rumor about an attack or a story about some threat. As soon as we see a Pentagon fat ass on TV reading about some imaginary bogeyman on his teleprompter, we know what's coming. Its too bad we set up phony terrorist attacks to end wars rather than just start them. We need one right now to get us out of Afghanistan.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Maybe we can arrange one proving that Al Qaeda is in Africa and we can pack up, leave Afghanistan and Iraq and go there instead. The worst part of that, even if there is no enemy for us to fight, as in Iraq, one will show up anyway, just because we are there. Is this always the plan in the first place?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]You can't turn on the TV and head to the cable/satellite channels, A&E, Military History, Discovery and others without being confronted by continual assaults on our traditional view of history, many of the shows carefully outlining how what we have always believed was a convenient lie meant to shut us up. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Between the ghosts and UFOs, shows like the Secret History of WW2, which debunks 75% of the accepted history of mankind's greatest conflict, shows us how far government goes and how little newspapers and historians really know. Somewhere, in basements all over Washington DC, classified documents that would make a mockery of everything we hold true sit and collect dust. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]How does this make us feel? Its like we are all married to people we find really aren't going to a job every day but heading off to a motel somewhere. One day, we follow them and see them coming out with a mysterious stranger. We confront them. They tell us that we made it all up.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Every American who chooses to believe the government when they yell out "conspiracy theory" is like the spouse being lied to. You can keep quiet and pretend to believe, living a marriage more lie than real or you can break up your family, maybe lose you home, your kids, because you can't live a lie.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In some cases, it goes much further, its like we watched the whole thing through the motel window, hell, it is even as bad as if we kept a video tape. The Iraq War, the rigged elections, the anthrax outbreaks, the Sibel Edmonds spying scandal and the financial bailout are just like this. We have it all, videos, stained sheets, the whole thing and seem to be enjoying the humiliation…[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Read more at Veterans Today[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://buchanan.org[/FONT]​

 

[CrackerJax]

I do think the plan was to draw Al Queda into Iraq and commit themselves. They did.... and it worked perfectly. Humiliated and decimated.

Yes!!

Now they see the Clinton weakness and blinders are back on. expect more trouble.... lots of it.
__________________

 

[GrowRebel]

This is just laughable at this point.

Yes you and the rest of the deniers trying to push a bogus report as fact ... yet the people that want a real investigation just don't seem to buy it ... and you can't seem to handle that ... which is laughable.

I see that no matter what we post the truthers will just say it has been "debunked."

Only because it has been ... with the proof to back it up.

Then they go on to post quotes they get from non-credible truther websites.

What evidence ... besides you stated it ... that these are "quotes" from "non-credible truther websites" Don't worry I won't hold my breath. You won't respond with proof ... know why? ... cause you can't!

Then, they go on to refer to these quotes as "irrefutable, fact and conclusive proof." Of course none of their quotes are any of these things.

No ... we refer to papers like this
The Missing Jolt:
A Simple Refutation of the NIST-Bazant Collapse Hypothesis
In its Final Report on the Collapse of the World Trade Center Towers, the National Institute of Standards and Technology summarizes its three year study and outlines its explanation of the total collapse of WTC 1 and WTC 2. [1]
Readers of the report will find that the roughly $20 million expended on this effort have resulted in an explanation of the total collapse of these buildings that is so vague it barely qualifies as a hypothesis. But it does have one crucial feature of a hypothesis: it is, in principle, falsifiable. In fact, it is easy to demonstrate that it is false.
In this paper we will, concentrating on the North Tower, offer a refutation that is:
•
easy to understand but reasonably precise
•
capable of being stated briefly
•
verifiable by any reader with average computer

... and this ...
The Top Ten Connections Between NIST and
Nano-Thermites
The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) has had considerable
difficulty determining a politically correct sequence of events for the unprecedented
destruction of three World Trade Center (WTC) buildings on 9/11 (Douglas 2006, Ryan
2006, Gourley 2007). But despite a number of variations in NIST’s story, it never
considered explosives or pyrotechnic materials in any of its hypotheses. This omission is at odds with several other striking facts; first, the requirement of the national standard for fire investigation (NFPA 921), which calls for testing related to thermite and other pyrotechnics, and second, the extensive experience NIST investigators have with
explosive and thermite materials.
I just can't wait to hear why these "quotes" are non-credible.

The fact is that no credible experts agree with anything in their quotes.

Like who? NIST? Who?

They say it is a fact that thermite was found in the debris when in fact there was no thermite found.

Wrong again ... no surprises though ... This was posted way back on page 34 post 339
Thermite and the
WTC Collapses
Why was the temperature at the core of "the pile" nearly 500° F hotter than the maximum burning temperature of jet fuel a full seven days after the collapses? There were no infernos in either of the twin towers before they collapsed, so what caused the hot spots deep in their wreckage?

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/911_explosives.htmlTraces of explosives in 9/11 dust, scientists say

Active thermitic material confirmed

Page 60 post 594
[youtube]o44hoYVahJk[/youtube]
Of course you will pretend it's not credible or doesn't exist what ever excuse you can come up with.

If there was thermite found, where is it now? Where is this alleged thermite held? How much thermite was found?

I have no idea how much was found ...
We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center. Examination of four of these samples, collected from separate sites, is reported in this paper. These red/gray chips show marked similarities in all four samples. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The red material contains grains approximately 100 nm across which are largely iron oxide, while aluminum is contained in tiny plate-like structures. Separation of components using methyl ethyl ketone demonstrated that elemental aluminum is present. The iron oxide and aluminum are intimately mixed in the red material. When ignited in a DSC device the chips exhibit large but narrow exotherms occurring at approximately 430 °C, far below the normal ignition temperature for conventional thermite. Numerous iron-rich spheres are clearly observed in the residue following the ignition of these peculiar red/gray chips. The red portion of these chips is found to be an unreacted thermitic material and highly energetic.

Fact is, if you follow the links provided by the truthers you wind up at any number of truther websites, many of which even go so far as to promote a Jewish conspiracy as being behind 911.

such as?

Obviously the truthers see any statement that backs their views as "conclusive proof" of a conspiracy even when the person making the claim has zero expertise in any field related to the issue.

Who is making a claim with zero expertise?

The funny thing is that the truthers can not come up with a single solitary quote from a non-biased, credible source.

been there done that, this thread is full of them just because you can't accept them as credible doesn't mean they are not.

Not one genuine science journal, not one finding from any major university,

Wrong again ...
http://www.911blogger.com/node/19761Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe
Kudos to Brigham Young University for permitting Drs. Farrer and Jones and physics student Daniel Farnsworth to do the research described in the paper and for conducting internal reviews of the paper.
The was a foreign university that did a study, but I can't remember who it was ... if I find it I will post it.

not one alternate explanation from any legitimate organization with no dog in the fight.

So what do the Dutch scientist and the other foreign scientists I have posted in this thread have to gain by lying about the scientific data concerning 911?

Every single solitary quote they have is from a radical conspiracy theory website and written by a non-expert.

Now most of us know that's a lie, but I'll be fair ... proof it. Show us these quotes that come form radical conspiracy theory websites ... you won't though ... know why? cause you can't!

Why is this the case? Why is it that not one single shred of conspiracy evidence comes from a legitimate source?

Um ... because you pretend it doesn't ... yet are unable to prove it doesn't. That's why.

But of course this is a silly question because I know they will say that all their sources are credible and all the well known science journals and organizations and all the universities lack credibility and have all been debunked.

such as?

At this point I can see that there is nothing to their argument beyond the technique of repeating a lie until it becomes the truth.

Self projecting again I see

Trying to talk sense into the truthers really is futile.

Oh yeah ... wanting a real investigation goes why beyond sense.

Their warped minds desperately want to believe in a conspiracy

You mean like you desperately want to stop people from wanting a real investigation?

and they are prepared to comb the ground with a magnifying glass for support of their depravity despite a mountain of evidence to the contrary.

Like you who are willing to bury your head in the sand to avoid the facts?

This is a disease pure and simple.

It must be ... not being able to handle the FACT that people want a real investigation into what happen on 911 ... too bad ... so sad.

 

[RickWhite]

GR, regardless of your or my views on this subject, you really need to understand how bad you make yourself look with all that multi-quoting and that large print. People find these thing tremendously annoying. Plus, you don't have to make snide comments in response to every sentence. If you want to be an effective communicator and make a persuasive argument, you need to learn how to address only the key points and to phrase your responses in a single well articulated piece. Multi-quoting really does make you look childish and I don't mean that as an insult.

Now getting back tot he subject. Thermite is iron oxide (rust) and aluminum. There is no doubt that both of these were present in the WTC debris, that in no way proves that anyone used thermite.

But regardless, you have posted a number of links to articles written by people who's credibility is in question. If you intend to use them as a source of information, you first need to establish their credibility.

Can you do that? Can you provide any reason we should listen to what these people say? Who are these people?

You see, the info we provided is from people who are well known and well respected in the academic and scientific community. Can you show us that the same is true of your sources?

 

[wyteboi]

If you had proof.... it would be in all the headlines.

Your not helping yourself out none today..
I knew you was all about the "headlines" .....they really should give you a dollar or two for tryin ......

 

[RickWhite]

Hey GR, I did a little research into one of your main sources. That article on thermite being found in the WTC dust is published in an on line "journal" that anyone can post in. So in other words, the "journal" is a joke and your author can't get his nonsense published in a legitimate journal. Here is some info.

Open Chemical Physics Journalhttp://www.bentham.org/open/tocpj/Publisher: Bentham open. The Open Chemical Physics Journal is an Open Access online journal whichpublishes research articles, reviews and letters in all areas of chemicalphysics. The Open Chemical Physics Journal is a peer-reviewed journal which aims toprovide the most complete and reliable source of information on currentdevelopments in chemical physics. The emphasis will be on publishing qualitypapers rapidly and freely available to researchers worldwide.ISSN: 1874-4125Editor-in-Chiefrof. Marie-Paule PileniFaculty of ScienceLaboratoire des Matériaux Mésoscopiques et NanomètriquesUniversity P & M Curie ParisFranceEmail: tocpj@benthamopen.orgAbstracts available online. Articles available in PDF format. Current Issue: Volume 1, 2008Date: 9 July 2008

Well there you have it. Your "proof" is an article posted in an open online (fake) journal.The editor in chief of this alleged journal lives in Paris France which is hugely anti-American and anti-Semetic Country with a huge Muslim population.What legitimate journals publish this chode?

 

[GrowRebel]

I was doing a search and I came across this site ...
911 Physics
Lots of information, and those that get into math ... that too.

 

[RickWhite]

Here is a little backgroun on one of the authors of your "proof."

The Strange Saga of Jeffrey Farrer



Those of you who have been following this blog for a while have probably noticed that I have a hobby of following the Full Members of ST911 (yes, I know, I should collect stamps or something). Originally in May, I brought up the issue that Jeffrey Farrer was listed as a Full Member, even though he was a lab manager, and not a professor. Then in August, after Judy Wood complained to Jim Fetzer, he was demoted to a Student Member. A week or two later, after Judy Wood left he was then promoted to Jeffrey Farrer PhD, a Full Member.

Now only a few weeks later he has quit the organization entirely.

Farrer, who manages BYU's Transmission Electron Microscopy Laboratory, sent an e-mail asking the group to remove his name from the Web site on Sept. 7, hours before BYU administrators informed Jones they were placing him on paid leave. Farrer had grown increasingly uncomfortable with the content of scholarsfor911truth.org. He was disturbed that it appeared to have a political viewpoint, though he said he would continue to work with the group.


"If it's a scholarly Web site, I don't think they should have a political viewpoint," Farrer said. "I thought there was too much finger-pointing and maybe a little too much speculation that wasn't based on confirmable evidence."
​

 

[GrowRebel]

GR, regardless of your or my views on this subject, you really need to understand how bad you make yourself look with all that multi-quoting and that large print.

First of all in my browser your print is very small while mine looks normal ... sorry if it looks large on your browser, but that's how it goes. And I always address each point a poster makes it you can't handle that ... too bad.

People find these thing tremendously annoying.

I post the 911 news if deniers find it annoying I shouldn't wonder why.

Plus, you don't have to make snide comments in response to every sentence.

I don't that's merely your interpretation.

If you want to be an effective communicator and make a persuasive argument,

I am and I do ... you and the rest of the deniers just don't think so that's all. No problem there.

you need to learn how to address only the key points and to phrase your responses in a single well articulated piece.

No ... I need to post the news about 911.

Multi-quoting really does make you look childish and I don't mean that as an insult.

Not to me ... and that's all that matters, not that many posters do it as well.

Now getting back tot he subject. Thermite is iron oxide (rust) and aluminum. There is no doubt that both of these were present in the WTC debris, that in no way proves that anyone used thermite.

Already posted and reposted what the Danish scientist did to prove it wasn't "rust and aluminum" ... not to mention the papers I posted ... if you don't want to look at the evidence it's not my problem.

But regardless, you have posted a number of links to articles written by people who's credibility is in question.

You keep saying that, but never state who. Know why? Cause you can't.

If you intend to use them as a source of information, you first need to establish their credibility.

Their credibility has already been established in this thread.

Can you do that? Can you provide any reason we should listen to what these people say? Who are these people?

If you don't want to check in the thread simply do a google on Jones, Gage, and the other engineers and scientists who work I posted ... and you can see there credentials for yourself.

You see, the info we provided is from people who are well known and well respected in the academic and scientific community.

Like who ... you keep saying that, but continue to fail to say who ... NIST? ... we proved they are bogus ... who?

Can you show us that the same is true of your sources?

What same? Another figment of your imagination I see ... you have yet to do so. I have in this thread.

Hey GR, I did a little research into one of your main sources. That article on thermite being found in the WTC dust is published in an on line "journal" that anyone can post in. So in other words, the "journal" is a joke and your author can't get his nonsense published in a legitimate journal. Here is some info.

Well there you have it. Your "proof" is an article posted in an open online (fake) journal.The editor in chief of this alleged journal lives in Paris France which is hugely anti-American and anti-Semetic Country with a huge Muslim population.What legitimate journals publish this chode?

Now you are going to have to explain where you get "fake" from a journal

which publishes research articles, reviews and letters in all areas of chemical physics. The Open Chemical Physics Journal is a peer-reviewed journal which aims to provide the most complete and reliable source of information on current developments in chemical physics

Oh and ... this is just one of many ... so it's not like this is the only one you have to dispute.

 

[RickWhite]

And then there is Steven M Jones also of BYU. Jones was a founder of 911 scholars for truth. Here is what BYU thinks of Jones' theories.


On September 7, 2006, Jones removed his paper from BYU's website at the request of administrators and was placed on paid leave. [19] The university cited its concern about the "increasingly speculative and accusatory nature" of Jones' work and the concern that perhaps it had "not been published in appropriate scientific venues" as reasons for putting him under review.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones



You see GR, it looks like your sources are a house of cards and the house is falling down.

 

[NoDrama]

You see GR, it looks like your sources are a house of cards and the house is falling down.

And you would think that if it truly were a house of cards coming down that at least SOMETHING would have happened in the last 3 years, but the movement is stronger than ever and gets stronger by the day.

 

[RickWhite]

Now let us look at your article "Missing Jolt: A simple refutation of the NIST..."

Here is the other so called journal where this is published. It is another "open access" journal. Look who is the Editor - why it's our old friend Steven Jones! Looks like all your sources come from a guy who was booted from BYU for being a nut.

Is this what you are calling "proof"?

Here is a little FYI. Legitimate academic, science or trade journals are not likely to be open source journals because the Editors of legitimate journals have standards that they maintain. Being published in a real journal is not something anyone can do.

I have been formally trained in writing journal acceptable material and I have been trained to know which sources are legit and which are not. Your sources are not legitimate sources.

Journal of 9/11 Studies

http://www.journalof911studies.com/

Publisher: Journal of 9/11 Studies

The Journal of 9/11 Studies is a peer-reviewed, open-access, electronic-only
journal covering the whole of research related to 9/11/2001. All content is
freely available on line.

The Editors invite article submissions from all researchers working at the
forefront of investigations related to 9/11/2001 and its aftermath.

Editors:

Prof. Steven E. Jones
Department of Physics and Astronomy
N-269 Eyring Science Center
Brigham Young University
Provo, Utah, USA 84602

Email: Steven_Jones@byu.edu

Prof. Judy D. Wood
Department of Mechanical Engineering
Clemson University
Clemson, So. Carolina, USA 29634

Email: woodj@clemson.edu

Content available in PDF format.

Current Issue: Volume 1 June 2006

Date: 27 June 2006

 

[CrackerJax]

Yes, BYU has disavowed Jones. It takes a lot for a University to walk away from one of their professors.... just one more indication.

 

[Keenly]

Yes, BYU has disavowed Jones. It takes a lot for a University to walk away from one of their professors.... just one more indication.

of what? that the media demonizes anyone who says anything other than the nonsense story were given?

 

[CrackerJax]

BYU is the university that Jones worked at... it's not the media. His own PEERS are embarrassed by him. He is not an expert, and his peers who know him BEST concur.

No media is necessary..... this is by the people who are familiar with his work and reputation.

Not surprising.

 

[CrackerJax]

[youtube]xV7Ha3VDbzE[/youtube]