miami30532
Member
is this a glass tube or plastic and were can i find something like that that is such a cool set up and i would like to try something simaler
Dystopia's PPP 250w VScrOG
- Thread starter Dystopia
- Start date
loolagigi
Well-Known Member
yeah man, ebay has bake a round pyrex tubes for about 15 bucks with shipping. they work really good man. heres a pic of mine.
they are super easy to make. just ask one of us, well help you through the build. hope this helped. also, using this tube dropped my temps a lot.
Attachments
That 5hit
Well-Known Member
this is tempered glass used for bakeing
click pic to inlarge
thie hardest part to this is finding the bake o round- big box store's should have'em if not e-bay all the way
tom__420
Well-Known Member
this is tempered glass used for bakeing
click pic to inlarge
thie hardest part to this is finding the bake o round- big box store's should have'em if not e-bay all the way
Where did you get that pic?
It looks exactly like this cool tube how to: https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/121080-diy-cool-tube-how.html
That 5hit
Well-Known Member
it is the how to DIY Cool Tube How-To
i just put it all at a glance so it could be ezrly read
things that i like i make a short style for - like flash cards
if you look at the link in my sig i have made other
i just put it all at a glance so it could be ezrly read
things that i like i make a short style for - like flash cards
if you look at the link in my sig i have made other
miami30532
Member
man thanx i dident think it was that easy.
i got other ? what u think about aquaponic im geting ready to start a big grow and i dont no what system i want to do
i got other ? what u think about aquaponic im geting ready to start a big grow and i dont no what system i want to do
Stgeneziz
Active Member
Bro, + rep to you. Those flash cards are amazing. Especially for a tard like me.!
Dystopia
Active Member
Thank you, sir. Heath is on a different planet. His designs are innovative, his GPW mind-boggling. I learned a lot researching his grows...all I'm trying to do is copy his principles and techniques, nothing innovative here...
Dystopia
Active Member
The pH has dropped from 6.27 to 6.10 over the last few days, so I think the plants are telling me they are finally done stretching and are ready to devote their energy to flowering by taking in more of the basic ions like Ca, Mg, and K that are used in building buds. So Im going to give it a little boost by adding the P/K booster Hammerhead from Advanced Nutrients. The problem, though, is that I cant just add it to the reservoir without significantly raising the ppms.
So what I did was drain 4 gallons out of the bottom reservoir, which is slightly more than ¼ of the 14 gallons total in the system. The water I drained was at 875 ppm and 6.10 pH, which is important to know for the following nutrient calculations.
I then added back 2 gallons of pHd water with Grow-Micro-Bloom at the standard flower ratio (1:2:3) and ppmd to 875. If I take 875 ppm water out and put 875 ppm water back in then nothings really changed.
Then I mixed enough Hammerhead into the other two gallons of water to bring that solution to a ppm of 875 as well. I added 50 ml of HH and ended up around 900 ppm. I then added the solution to the lower reservoir. So I added back water at the same ppm as the water that came out of the system, and gave it a hit of Hammerhead at the same time. And the tap water probably refreshed the Ca and Mg levels as well.
Shit, I hope that wasnt too confusing. Im orbiting somewhere around Jupiter right now so bear with me.
The reason I did it this way, instead of doing a full reservoir change for instance, is because I like to keep the water in a balanced state, one that takes many weeks to obtain. There are millions of beneficial organisms living in perfect harmony with the roots, helping the roots take up nutrients and ward off attack. My water is clean and clear, it smells like - as Roseman would say - freshly cut and rinsed lettuce. The pH is stable and Im able to read it to tell what the plants need. The plants are happy and healthy. Why would I want to change that by wiping out that environment with a full reservoir change and starting over?
Anyways, the ppms (now at 910 ppm), and the pH (6.12) stayed rock-steady today. I dont think the plants noticed a thing
I forgot to charge my camera battery, so I only got a couple of shots before it died and theyre not very good ones. More tomorrow.
So what I did was drain 4 gallons out of the bottom reservoir, which is slightly more than ¼ of the 14 gallons total in the system. The water I drained was at 875 ppm and 6.10 pH, which is important to know for the following nutrient calculations.
I then added back 2 gallons of pHd water with Grow-Micro-Bloom at the standard flower ratio (1:2:3) and ppmd to 875. If I take 875 ppm water out and put 875 ppm water back in then nothings really changed.
Then I mixed enough Hammerhead into the other two gallons of water to bring that solution to a ppm of 875 as well. I added 50 ml of HH and ended up around 900 ppm. I then added the solution to the lower reservoir. So I added back water at the same ppm as the water that came out of the system, and gave it a hit of Hammerhead at the same time. And the tap water probably refreshed the Ca and Mg levels as well.
Shit, I hope that wasnt too confusing. Im orbiting somewhere around Jupiter right now so bear with me.
The reason I did it this way, instead of doing a full reservoir change for instance, is because I like to keep the water in a balanced state, one that takes many weeks to obtain. There are millions of beneficial organisms living in perfect harmony with the roots, helping the roots take up nutrients and ward off attack. My water is clean and clear, it smells like - as Roseman would say - freshly cut and rinsed lettuce. The pH is stable and Im able to read it to tell what the plants need. The plants are happy and healthy. Why would I want to change that by wiping out that environment with a full reservoir change and starting over?
Anyways, the ppms (now at 910 ppm), and the pH (6.12) stayed rock-steady today. I dont think the plants noticed a thing
I forgot to charge my camera battery, so I only got a couple of shots before it died and theyre not very good ones. More tomorrow.
Dystopia
Active Member
OK, I left off with discussing how I determine the dimensions of the flower zone or box for a single HID light hung horizontally. I also discussed how to change the dimensions of the box by changing how high above the canopy you hang the light, and the minimum distance you can hang your light above the canopy.
But when you hang your light vertically, everything changes. First of all, you can get your light much closer to the plant.
I stated that in my experience with horizontally hung lights I cant let my plants get any closer than 6 to the light before I start to damage the leaves. And yet here the leaves (and even some buds) are crowding right up to the cool tube, 3 or so from the light itself, with little damage:
I have come up with a couple of theories as to why this is.
First off, a vertically hung bulb runs much cooler. I believe this is because in a horizontally hung bulb with a hood much of the heat is trapped and/or reflected back down by the hood. But regardless of why, the fact is that my bulb runs significantly cooler vertically then horizontally, using the same amount of ventilation. When hung horizontally, I cannot grab the hottest part of the tube without burning myself. Hung vertically, I can grab the tube anywhere:
Second, the hood in a horizontal setup is designed to reflect the light from the top part of the bulb back down onto the canopy, nearly doubling the light intensity being felt by the plants (there is loss as some light is absorbed by the reflective material). With a vertically hung bulb, none of the light is redirected by a hood and the light intensity is evenly distributed around the bulb. I would reckon that the light intensity being felt by the plant at any given spot is closer to that of a 125 watt bulb. And if you can get a 250 watt bulb 6 from the plants, Im thinking 3 is possible with a 125 watt bulb if heat is not a factor.
Regardless of why I can let the plants get closer to the light, the fact is that I can get my plants my plants closer and Ill use that to my advantage.
So I have removed my horizontal hood and hung my light vertically is there anything else I can do to increase the light intensity (especially if its acting more like a 125 watt bulb)? Yes I can take my hood and extend it so that it surrounds the plants, more or less trapping the light inside the bud zone:
Thats the purpose of the side panels, and believe me, they do work. I put panels on every side EXCEPT the front; everything else (how I trained the plants) was the same. As you can see in the stretch sequence a few posts earlier, the plants filled up the sides MUCH faster than the front. I did this on purpose so that I could easily work in there; once I was done with the major part of the training I installed a panel on the front (one week ago) and it has almost completely filled in now.
Finally, I showed how that if I hung my 250 watt light horizontally I would have a 24 X 24 X 10 box that I could fill with buds. So if I hang my light horizontally and fill my box with buds I end up with a maximum potential of 5,760 cubic inches of bud (24 x 24 x 10 = 5,760). If I hang my light vertically, that 24 X 24 X 10 box gets flipped on its side and stretched around the light in a cylindrical donut shape. I wont do the math here (volumes of two cylinders, subtract one from the other); but the potential volume increases to 12,500 cubic inches, over double what I can potentially do horizontally.
So if I can do 6 ozs horizontally, the possibility exists to get 12 ozs vertically. Anything less than 10 will be at least a partial failure for me. It would mean I didnt properly plan the grow, and thats what Ill be talking about next.
But when you hang your light vertically, everything changes. First of all, you can get your light much closer to the plant.
I stated that in my experience with horizontally hung lights I cant let my plants get any closer than 6 to the light before I start to damage the leaves. And yet here the leaves (and even some buds) are crowding right up to the cool tube, 3 or so from the light itself, with little damage:
I have come up with a couple of theories as to why this is.
First off, a vertically hung bulb runs much cooler. I believe this is because in a horizontally hung bulb with a hood much of the heat is trapped and/or reflected back down by the hood. But regardless of why, the fact is that my bulb runs significantly cooler vertically then horizontally, using the same amount of ventilation. When hung horizontally, I cannot grab the hottest part of the tube without burning myself. Hung vertically, I can grab the tube anywhere:
Second, the hood in a horizontal setup is designed to reflect the light from the top part of the bulb back down onto the canopy, nearly doubling the light intensity being felt by the plants (there is loss as some light is absorbed by the reflective material). With a vertically hung bulb, none of the light is redirected by a hood and the light intensity is evenly distributed around the bulb. I would reckon that the light intensity being felt by the plant at any given spot is closer to that of a 125 watt bulb. And if you can get a 250 watt bulb 6 from the plants, Im thinking 3 is possible with a 125 watt bulb if heat is not a factor.
Regardless of why I can let the plants get closer to the light, the fact is that I can get my plants my plants closer and Ill use that to my advantage.
So I have removed my horizontal hood and hung my light vertically is there anything else I can do to increase the light intensity (especially if its acting more like a 125 watt bulb)? Yes I can take my hood and extend it so that it surrounds the plants, more or less trapping the light inside the bud zone:
Thats the purpose of the side panels, and believe me, they do work. I put panels on every side EXCEPT the front; everything else (how I trained the plants) was the same. As you can see in the stretch sequence a few posts earlier, the plants filled up the sides MUCH faster than the front. I did this on purpose so that I could easily work in there; once I was done with the major part of the training I installed a panel on the front (one week ago) and it has almost completely filled in now.
Finally, I showed how that if I hung my 250 watt light horizontally I would have a 24 X 24 X 10 box that I could fill with buds. So if I hang my light horizontally and fill my box with buds I end up with a maximum potential of 5,760 cubic inches of bud (24 x 24 x 10 = 5,760). If I hang my light vertically, that 24 X 24 X 10 box gets flipped on its side and stretched around the light in a cylindrical donut shape. I wont do the math here (volumes of two cylinders, subtract one from the other); but the potential volume increases to 12,500 cubic inches, over double what I can potentially do horizontally.
So if I can do 6 ozs horizontally, the possibility exists to get 12 ozs vertically. Anything less than 10 will be at least a partial failure for me. It would mean I didnt properly plan the grow, and thats what Ill be talking about next.
miami30532
Member
u Know i been thinking of the same thing about changing the rezz y would u do that? I totally agree with that i mean your gunna b toping off your rezz every couple days anyways so its not like it not geting fresh water. and when u do that u dont have to worry about hurting the root i can just pour a gal. of worm water to control the temp and mached PH. thats what im starting to do now to 
bigboyfly713
Well-Known Member
Nice grow and setup dystopia!!! Subscribed.
miami30532
Member
another thing is there a reason u like 250 watt light verses 400 or 600 watts???
That 5hit
Well-Known Member
my dude, give yourself more credit, you myfriend are a grow god, very very innovative - heath is always on another planet he's a gr8 inspiration to us all giving free information and taking the extra effort to go from site to site sharing- and for you to pick up the torch, now thats amazing and your grow is totaly differant and new campared to any other vert grow. but its cool how you gave credit to heath +rep for everything. indoor grower have come a long way sence paint buckit full of dirt under street lights- and its growers like you that gives me hope- the future is bright and green
Dystopia
Active Member
Ive been on the Hammerhead for a day now and the girls want more. The pH is still drifting down and the ppms have dropped from 910 to 867:
Im trying to fine tune things so that the pH remains stable and the ppms remain the same throughout the day. I want them to take in exactly the same amount of nutrients as the amount of water they drink. If the nutrient ppm is at 910 and they drink a gallon of water during the day, then I want them to take in exactly 910ppm worth of nutrients during that time frame as well. What you would see on your meter is no change in the pH or ppms throughout the day, they would be eating nutrients at exactly the same rate as they were drinking water.
I believe trying to achieve this balance has two distinct advantages:
1. There is no salt buildup in the tank. Salts build up when the plant is taking in less of a particular nutrient then it is drinking water. If I can achieve this balance of nutrient and water uptake, I can run my system with the same water for an unlimited amount of time; there will be minimal salt buildup.
2. I can determine exactly how high a ppm level these particular plants want. Different strains want different levels; in my opinion this is a good way to tell what your particular strain wants.
Again, the idea is to have your pH and ppms remain stable throughout the day. If the ppms drop during the day, that means they want a stronger nutrient solution; bump it up. If the ppms rise during the day, that means theyre taking in more water then nutes and salts can build up. Bump it down.
This balance can be very difficult if not impossible to achieve, but getting close is necessary in my opinion if you want to run your system for an extended amount of time with the same water. If you err anywhere, err so that the ppms drop during the day so that you can avoid salt buildups.
And I believe that having a remote reservoir with almost double the amount of water as a typical system is critical to this as well. Changes are much more subtle with a large amount of water; with smaller systems changes are faster and larger and its very difficult to keep up with them. This is why I would recommend weekly or every two week reservoir changes with smaller systems, like buckets, to avoid salt buildups. If your plants are drinking more than 10-20% of the total volume of water in your reservoir a day then it might be near-impossible to avoid salt buildups. Again, frequent water changes are necessary in smaller systems, IMO.
Im trying to fine tune things so that the pH remains stable and the ppms remain the same throughout the day. I want them to take in exactly the same amount of nutrients as the amount of water they drink. If the nutrient ppm is at 910 and they drink a gallon of water during the day, then I want them to take in exactly 910ppm worth of nutrients during that time frame as well. What you would see on your meter is no change in the pH or ppms throughout the day, they would be eating nutrients at exactly the same rate as they were drinking water.
I believe trying to achieve this balance has two distinct advantages:
1. There is no salt buildup in the tank. Salts build up when the plant is taking in less of a particular nutrient then it is drinking water. If I can achieve this balance of nutrient and water uptake, I can run my system with the same water for an unlimited amount of time; there will be minimal salt buildup.
2. I can determine exactly how high a ppm level these particular plants want. Different strains want different levels; in my opinion this is a good way to tell what your particular strain wants.
Again, the idea is to have your pH and ppms remain stable throughout the day. If the ppms drop during the day, that means they want a stronger nutrient solution; bump it up. If the ppms rise during the day, that means theyre taking in more water then nutes and salts can build up. Bump it down.
This balance can be very difficult if not impossible to achieve, but getting close is necessary in my opinion if you want to run your system for an extended amount of time with the same water. If you err anywhere, err so that the ppms drop during the day so that you can avoid salt buildups.
And I believe that having a remote reservoir with almost double the amount of water as a typical system is critical to this as well. Changes are much more subtle with a large amount of water; with smaller systems changes are faster and larger and its very difficult to keep up with them. This is why I would recommend weekly or every two week reservoir changes with smaller systems, like buckets, to avoid salt buildups. If your plants are drinking more than 10-20% of the total volume of water in your reservoir a day then it might be near-impossible to avoid salt buildups. Again, frequent water changes are necessary in smaller systems, IMO.
Dystopia
Active Member
The heavy sativa genes in PPP are rearing their head; these plants have stretched much more than I anticipated and I have to raise the lights again. I don’t have to do this because of the buds growing along the sides of the screens; rather, it’s because the buds growing up from the bottom screen are crowding out the light. Timing when you flip is critical in any ScrOG; it is doubly so in a VScrOG. If I had it to do over I would have flipped a week earlier; this is why you really need to know the characteristics of the strain you’re growing.
Anyways, this time I’m going to extend the side frame 6”. All I have to do is unplug the light and fan and pop the top off the frame. This is what the top looks like:
I cut eight 6” lengths of PCV and used couplings to connect them to the frame, and cut a piece of the 4” corrugated pipe 6” longer then what was in there previously for the bottom:
Then all I had to do was pop the top back on and we’re back in business. Took me about 15 minutes (not counting prep time). This WILL be the last time I raise the lights; whatever happens, happens:
Anyways, this time I’m going to extend the side frame 6”. All I have to do is unplug the light and fan and pop the top off the frame. This is what the top looks like:
I cut eight 6” lengths of PCV and used couplings to connect them to the frame, and cut a piece of the 4” corrugated pipe 6” longer then what was in there previously for the bottom:
Then all I had to do was pop the top back on and we’re back in business. Took me about 15 minutes (not counting prep time). This WILL be the last time I raise the lights; whatever happens, happens:
Dystopia
Active Member
Bud shots
Heres what it looks like from the top with the light out. There are over 40 primary bud sites and many more secondary ones hidden in the leaves:
This is almost like looking down on a 40 plant horizontal SOG. But there is no way I could do a 40-plant SOG in a 2 X 2 area; 16 would be the max. So by going vertical Ive more than doubled my potential yield. Not only that, but each of those bud sites is receiving THE SAME amount of light; this would be impossible in a horizontal grow unless you were using a light mover or rotating the plants (which would only average out the intensity to a lower value). So the overall densness of the buds should increase over that of a horizontal grow as well. You can start to see why Heath Robinson is able to pull 3 times the number of grams as watts hes using.
Its difficult to see this in 2-D, you need to see it in 3-D to truly appreciate it. Heres a shot of one of the walls:
This density can cause problems, though. The humidity is high in there (around 40-45%), and where leaves touch it can get wet. Here, we have a bud that was covered with a fan leaf and was wet; you can see some damage:
Mold is something I have to plan for. Its important that I go in there and tuck fan leaves out of the way. Ive also added another fan blowing directly up into the canopy, and a dehumidifier that also has a U/V light on it thats supposed to kill mold spores.
Thats all for now
Heres what it looks like from the top with the light out. There are over 40 primary bud sites and many more secondary ones hidden in the leaves:
This is almost like looking down on a 40 plant horizontal SOG. But there is no way I could do a 40-plant SOG in a 2 X 2 area; 16 would be the max. So by going vertical Ive more than doubled my potential yield. Not only that, but each of those bud sites is receiving THE SAME amount of light; this would be impossible in a horizontal grow unless you were using a light mover or rotating the plants (which would only average out the intensity to a lower value). So the overall densness of the buds should increase over that of a horizontal grow as well. You can start to see why Heath Robinson is able to pull 3 times the number of grams as watts hes using.
Its difficult to see this in 2-D, you need to see it in 3-D to truly appreciate it. Heres a shot of one of the walls:
This density can cause problems, though. The humidity is high in there (around 40-45%), and where leaves touch it can get wet. Here, we have a bud that was covered with a fan leaf and was wet; you can see some damage:
Mold is something I have to plan for. Its important that I go in there and tuck fan leaves out of the way. Ive also added another fan blowing directly up into the canopy, and a dehumidifier that also has a U/V light on it thats supposed to kill mold spores.
Thats all for now
Similar threads
