Magnetic vs Digital Ballasts.

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Carthoris

Well-Known Member
Yea, its cheap to rebuild a magnetic.

All of you who have had to return digital ballasts - are they are charging you shipping?

Im going to try to remember to stop and get a kill-a-watt at harbor freight tomorrow. Ill see how many watts my 400 and 600 are using. Anyone out there with a digital and a kill-a-watt(or any meter) that can tell us how many watts you are using to run it?

Thanks.
 
bajafox

bajafox

Well-Known Member
It may be cheap to rebuild a magnetic but it's a good thing they last forever, that way you don't have to worry about ever having to rebuild them.

My Lumatek digital ballast has a 3 year in store replacement, I can have a new one, as long as the store is open, within 15 to 20 minutes
 
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Carthoris

Well-Known Member
Here they are talking about using a kill-a-watt on 600 and 1000w digital ballasts.
https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/248464-actual-power-usage-readings-dimmable.html
and
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/248669-review-actual-power-usage-readings.html

I have been testing mine with a kill-a-watt, and my 600w magnetic is using about 640 watts. This means compared to the good quality ballasts a magnetic is only using 10-20 more watts at the outside. For the mathematically challenged 10 watts an hour x 12 hours x 30 days is 3600 watts.

That is a whopping 30 cents or so a month where I live.

Ill use 50 cents a month just to be generous.
50 cents x 12 months = 6 dollars a year.

* Connecticut (lol, thats a horrible looking name) pays 20 cents a kwh, and they have the highest. So even at the highest cost in the nation it would take you 7 years to break even. Do you have any any grow equipment that you have kept 7 years? How many people here have even been growing 7 years?

(* calculated at $8.64 a year savings in electricity cost on a 600w ballast with a difference of 10w an hour. This could vary based on brands or malfunctioning equipment.)

There is no way you would ever save enough money to justify the purchase of a digital at current prices by using only efficiency as a a basis.

Lets look at heat, if its only using that small amount of energy to run the ballast, how much heat does 10 or 20 watts transfer into? Since we know generally the difference in watt usage between digital and magnetic, we can estimate it. We know that the straight conversion from Watts to Btu/hr is to multiply Watts by 3.4144. This would be for a heater with 100% efficiency, and I seriously doubt our ballasts are that efficient at generating heat. We will use 3.5 for simplicity. That is 35-70 btu/hr.

To compare this to items you are familiar with:

Human body : 400 btu/hr at rest
60w Light bulb : 184 btu/hr

The light bulb puts out 2-5 x's the heat of the magnetic ballast. You put out 5 to 12 x's the heat of the ballast. (Standing in your grow for half an hour to an hour is the same as running the ballast all day)

Considering the 600w bulb is putting out massive amounts of heat either way, the difference is very minor at best, and with adequate cooling it wont matter which ballast you have.

Next to come:
How many more lumens do digitals really put out?

If anyone has numbers thats show efficiency feel free to post them. The only numbers I can find are general numbers from manufacturers, the issues with them is how do you calculate this? Are they running it for an hour? 2 hours? A year? I'm going to guess that being the manufacturer of the digital ballasts they are calculating it in the manner that makes them look the best. Calculating by 12 hours would give you accurate numbers to compare, however, calculating 1 hour would skew the numbers in digitals favor by a large margin. How many people here use a HPS lighting system for an hour a day?


Carthoris
 
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NoDrama

Well-Known Member
maxmax7777 said:
Much has changed and much has been learned about digital ballasts. Frankly, the jury is still out on the digi vs mag ballast debate. #1 issue remains finding lamps able to run full life expectancy on digital ballasts. I have researched this and poured over the forums, the overwhelming amount of reports are of definate premature failure of most bulbs when run on digital ballasts.
Sun Pulse claims to have the only bulbs made specifically for digital ballasts, however, the reports on forums are these bulbs fall short when it comes to comparative yeilds in side by side tests with hortilux.
I am hearing possibly now the digilux bulb may be better suited for digital ballasts, however more on the ground reports are needed to conclude this thread. I want to believe digital ballasts are the way of the future, but I will need more confirmation from the industry and grower forums before the final vote. I will try to get back on this as my research pans out.
Oh, and for the record, lumetec ballasts have one of the highest failure rates in the industry. Quantum has one of the best. Phantom, the digital ballast with all the bells and whistles also has a very impressive low return/failure rate. Around here all these ballasts sell for the same cost $375, so there is little reason to purchase lumitec.
As said, each grower must find their own way, but lets not gripe on each other and puff our chest out, swearing our way is the only way....lets keep the spirit of HELPING each other alive. Just tell what you have learned and leave the boasting to alcoholics and rednecks. :leaf::idea:
Click to expand...

You have spammed this exact same post 12 times over, you are a shill for Phantom. You post is full of misleading unfounded data and claims.

Lumatek has the Exact same 5 year Warranty as Phantom, exactly the same. BEST IN THE BUSINESS!!

Lumateks have the same failure rate as other Quality Digital Ballasts do, there is just more of them since they are the market leader and have been for quite some time and have been on the market for much much longer therefore there are a lot more lumatek out there that are years and years older than the newest Phantom that have only been on the market for a few years. Its kind of like saying you see alot more 1995 Chevys in the shop than the 2010 Ford models and therefore coming to the conclusion that Chevy is not as reliable a vehicle as the Ford.
 
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Carthoris

Well-Known Member
Drama, I think you might of replied to the wrong thread:) If I were going to buy a digital ballast, it would be Lumatek. Unless I found an insane deal on something else.
 
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NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Carthoris said:
Drama, I think you might of replied to the wrong thread:) If I were going to buy a digital ballast, it would be Lumatek. Unless I found an insane deal on something else.
Click to expand...
No, the mods have removed the post, you'll notice I quote the deleted post, if you read it you will understand. It has nothing to do with the OP, and all to do with a spammer. Basically this maxmax777 guy is trying to sell his products, but is having a hard time because Lumatek products are the best sellers, so he comes on here, does a search for all ballast threads and then spams the same lies on all of them, if you look at all of his posts they are the same thing. Its obvious too, because many of the posts he replies to are 2 or 3 years old.
 
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RRLBT420

Active Member
FUCK MAGNETIC BALLASTS!!!!! I switched from a 400w magnetic to a 1000w digital ballast and guess what? it's noticably brighter, runs silent, and puts out more light with less heat than the 400w magnetic. you know why? CUZ MAGNETIC BALLASTS BLOW!!! i could hear my magnetic in the next room over, and it put out enough heat to keep my apartment comfortably warm during winter months. basically, you can keep your magnetic ballast, and then spend $300 on an a/c unit to keep it cool. or, you could buy a digital ballast, then say fuck the a/c because you now have more light, with less heat, and with the extra weight you harvest from that crop can buy you a co2 system for the next round. i love my spectrum digital, and they're cheap at www.ultralohydro.com. also as one more note i've had my digital for a year, and haven't had to have it repaired... i was used to visiting my hydro store every 4-5 months to replace some shit in my magnetic ballast. up front magnetic ballasts are cheap, but only because you don't know the problems you're buying with them.
 
reggaerican

reggaerican

Well-Known Member
i totally like the new lumitek dimmable ballasts they are cool but the dimmable quantoms have fans built in that helps if your ballast is in grow room..
 
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Carthoris

Well-Known Member
"?FUCK MAGNETIC BALLASTS!!!!! I switched from a 400w magnetic to a 1000w digital ballast and guess what? it's noticably brighter, runs silent, and puts out more light with less heat than the 400w magnetic. you know why? CUZ MAGNETIC BALLASTS BLOW!!! i could hear my magnetic in the next room over, and it put out enough heat to keep my apartment comfortably warm during winter months. basically, you can keep your magnetic ballast, and then spend $300 on an a/c unit to keep it cool. or, you could buy a digital ballast, then say fuck the a/c because you now have more light, with less heat, and with the extra weight you harvest from that crop can buy you a co2 system for the next round. i love my spectrum digital, and they're cheap at www.ultralohydro.com. also as one more note i've had my digital for a year, and haven't had to have it repaired... i was used to visiting my hydro store every 4-5 months to replace some shit in my magnetic ballast. up front magnetic ballasts are cheap, but only because you don't know the problems you're buying with them."

There is so many things wrong with this post.

1) FUCK MAGNETIC BALLASTS!!!!! I switched from a 400w magnetic to a 1000w digital ballast and guess what? it's noticably brighter, runs silent, and puts out more light with less heat than the 400w magnetic. you know why?

Yes, only a retard would believe that a 1000w hps bulb would not be brighter than a 400w hps bulb. Also, generally when you buy a new ballast, you buy a new bulb. You probably increased your light by 3x's.

2) FUCK MAGNETIC BALLASTS!!!!! I switched from a 400w magnetic to a 1000w digital ballast and guess what? it's noticably brighter, runs silent, and puts out more light with less heat than the 400w magnetic. you know why?

I also know why the 1000w digital puts out less heat than a 400w magnetic, its the theory of 'you've smoked yourself retarded'. The bulb of the 1000w puts out more heat than 400w ballast+bulb does altogether... There is no way around that.

3) i could hear my magnetic in the next room over, and it put out enough heat to keep my apartment comfortably warm during winter months.

You know, ballasts dont make noise, their enclosures do. If you bought a cheap enclosure, or its 20 years old, yes, it probably hums, but if you can hear it in the next room you probably have paper for walls and a really screwed up ballast.

3) i could hear my magnetic in the next room over, and it put out enough heat to keep my apartment comfortably warm during winter months.

400 watt ballasts, if they were old might use 50 watts more than a digital(None of mine waste that much, and I have 20+ lights). If 50 watts heats your entire apartment in the winter months, you probably live in an igloo cooler. The BULB might keep your place comfortable, but if the 400w did, the 1000w is going to do that more so.

4) and then spend $300 on an a/c unit to keep it cool

Never been to wal-mart, craigslist, ebay? The amount of heat the ballasts puts out is minor, the light puts out most of the heat. The overall heat difference between magnetic and digital is very small.

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Are digital ballasts better than magnetic ballasts? Yes.
Are ferarri's better than mustangs? Yes.
Are ferarri's and digital ballasts worth the premium over magnetic? No.

Better and cost effective aren't the same thing.


Also of note, most of us can use heat for a few months of the year even in the warm states. In states where the winter is long, running your lights at night and heating your house with exhaust makes magnetic ballasts even more cost efficient. The short and long of it: It is never worth upgrading from magnetic to digital unless you are moving up in wattage. If you have a 400 and replace it with a 400 you just threw away money you could of used for something that matters, like a good exhaust. If you have proper exhaust, the temps arent going to change. If you are buying a light, you dont care about the costs, and the small amount of benefits from having a digital is worth it to you, go for it.
 
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Carthoris

Well-Known Member
NoDrama, I thought maybe you had 2-3 windows open at the same time and just replied to the wrong one. :) Makes sense now.
 
bigv1976

bigv1976

Well-Known Member
Wow this quite a heated thread. I run a magnetic 400 watt ballast in a tent that is in a 4x10 room. Next to that room is another larger room. The wall seperating the 2 rooms is 1 piece of 1/2" sheetrock. My ballast is outside my tent in the smaller room. The temp is around 60 degrees in the larger room and in the room with all my grow equ. it is 66 degrees and I certainly do not hear my ballast humming. HMMM I am confused because I bought the cheapest 400 HPS I could find (Thanks HTG) and I am not experiencing any of the problems experienced above. Phew!!! Glad I didnt buy "quality" equipment.
 
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Carthoris

Well-Known Member
Reggae, the fans help cool the ballast, but they don't change how much heat they put out. One of the reasons people think magnetics make so much more heat is because digitals disperse their heat into the air. Look at any digital ballast, its a huge heat sink. The fact that they have fans on them at all means the manufacturer knows it would get hot enough to cause a problem if it didn't have one. Magnetic enclosures are just boxes. If you put a heat sink on a magnetic ballast, the temps would drop dramatically, due to moving the heat to the air. I bet if you installed a fan on a magnetic enclosure that it would drop it down to digital temps.

Science experiment:

Put 1 cup of hot water in a plate.
Put 1 cup of hot water in a cup.

Which one cools faster? They both have the same amount of heat in them, but one is pushing it off into the air faster. Do the same test, this time take a fan and blow it on the cup. How much did the situation change? Try a copper/aluminum pan instead of a plate.

It is much the same with ballasts. The heat sink on the digital ballasts is designed to take the heat from the ballast and spread it out over a bigger area more efficiently. If they did the same thing with a magnetic ballast, the result would be a magnetic ballast that doesn't get hot.
 
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Carthoris

Well-Known Member
Bigv, I think the quality is just the enclosure. Maybe a slight energy consumption, but it would be a minor difference though. General rule of thumb is all magnetic ballasts work well and do the same thing. Digitals have a large variance from manufacturer to manufacturer. Only a couple of my 20+ MH or HPS ballasts hummed when I tested them, and it only hummed because the case was loose. A few tightened screwed or a piece of card put between the pieces stopped the noise. You kind of expect a case to loosen up after 10 years.
 
bigv1976

bigv1976

Well-Known Member
I see so many people splitting hairs on their light bill. It costs on average $.10 per kw/h for electricity in this country and that equates out to 10 cents an hour to run a 1000 watt light. People talk about a 10% variance like it is costing them so much it is worth spending an extra $200 on a light. I have figured that if I upgraded my light I would have to use it for over 8 years to recoup my money.
 
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Carthoris

Well-Known Member
Big, I started the thread, and thats pretty much what I said in the opening post. Which wasn't a condemnation of digital like most people took it, it just doesn't make cents at the moment to buy digital. If you are a professional grower, you probably have a good exhaust/your ballasts are outside the grow and it wont matter. My sentiments are if you are a new grower, you can use the money it would cost in startup to buy a proper exhaust system. The only people who will find benefit are those who don't care how much they spend and maybe growers who are in it just to squeeze the last bit of performance from a certain size room and also who don't care about cost. (Kind of like people who race million dollar enduro cars)
 
bigv1976

bigv1976

Well-Known Member
Yeah I am pretty sure it all comes down to buds. What do you get 4 buds? I dont care if you use a 23 w CFL or 30k watts of super man muthafuckin bus stretcher crypton lights. Do you know how to grow weed. I see a whole bunch of people on here with 5 lights eb and fox farm cyclone seperator RO plant fellatio machines and the fact of the matter is they cant grow dope. A good grower can grow with any reasonable setup and they will grow more for less. I think this site has turned into a place for experienced growers to bullshit and newbs to learn as much non-sense as possible and the post a couple "help whats wrong with my plant threads" and then someone who actually knows how to grow dope will coach them through and explain that a plant cant use a bottle of nutes a week and that 1000 watt MH does not need to be 2" over the tops of those 2 Lowryders and yes 100 degrees is too high and yes a fan would help and oh if you read some before spending $1000 just do do shit all wrong you would be better off. I see it more and more every day. Newbs answering other newbs questions and we wonder why threads about cutting all the fan leaves off and mag vs. diggy ballasts turn into 10 page rants where everybody gets there feelings hurt and the FDD comes and closes the thread down until some asshole starts another. Bottom line MJ is a plant that needs air, water food and light just like any other. Fox farms and Luma tek and Jardin is for the growers not the plants.
 
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Carthoris

Well-Known Member
Smart, you realize that is just an ad from a company selling digital ballasts. What is wrong with you, don't you understand a manufacturer will say anything to sell you a product? Even producers of digital ballasts for grow applications don't say 50% less electricity and 25% more lumens. All you have to do is read the thread to know that. I gave straight proof and logic. I am also not trying to sell ballasts to you. I have no reason to lie.
 
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