HouseHold Nutrients
- Thread starter rak1
- Start date
hornedfrog2000
Well-Known Member
What do you mean by find around your house? You either have nutrients or you don't.
chillwills
Well-Known Member
Epsom salts, fish oil, molasses, brewed tea (i think)
You mean stuff like that?
You mean stuff like that?
The Yorkshireman
Well-Known Member
The following is something I stole (sorry for the lack of editing)from somewhere else a while back and contains the recipes for CANNA nutes (coco medium is preferable but can be used in soil).
Free to a good home,happy growing!
UK420 > Cultivation > Hydroponics > Coco Coir
budboy299Nov 4 2010, 06:43 PM
Part A 4-0-1
Calcium is 4.5%
Density 1176 g/l
Derived from Calcium Nitrate and Potassium Nitrate
4 Liters of concentrate
16.72 grams of Potassium Nitrate
526.0 grams of Yara Calcium Nitrate
72.3 grams Iron DPTA 7%
_______________________________________________________________________________
Part B 1-4-2
Magnesium 1.2%
Sulphur 1%
Density 1108 g/l
Derived from: Magnesium Nitrate, Magnesium Sulphate, and Potassium Phosphate
82 grams Magnesium Nitrate
136 grams Magnesium Sulphate
135.2 grams Mono-Potassium Phosphate
Trace minerals which are:
11.1 grams Zinc Sulphate
7.8 grams Manganese Sulphate
9.9 grams Copper Sulphate
14.5 grams Boric Acid
.1 gram Sodium Molybdate
also if you use Canna Coco, you more than likely will not need CalMag. This is because Calmag is composed of 1.2% Mg and 3.2% calcium, Ingredients are Calcium Nitrate and Magnesium Nitrate. The exact same ingredients already in Canna Coco, and Canna already has them in larger quantities than the Calmag. So adding the Calmag is redundant.
CalMag Plus is: 2-0-0
1.94% Nitrate Nitrogen
.06% water soluble nitrogen
3.2% Calcium
1.2% Magnesium
.1% chelated iron
Derived from: Calcium Nitrate 15.5-0-0
Magnesium Nitrate %15 MgO (%9.5 Mg) and %11 Nitrate Nitrogen
Iron DPTA 6%
For 3.8 Litres
143.0 grams Magnesium Nitrate
43.4 grams Yara Calcium Nitrate
16.1 grams Iron DPTA 6%
1.2 grams Sodium Benzoate (as a preservative)
taloula23Nov 5 2010, 08:25 AM
wow that all looks pretty tech>>>> what is it exactly ?? a nutrient recipe? do you use it? is it a home made recipe for coco nutes?? not sure where the canna comes in to it!!
T23
budboy299Nov 5 2010, 02:15 PM
It is a duplicate of Canna's brand of coco nutrients A and B solution. I think it is used in the UK alot so I thought I would post it for you guys.
All the ingredients are simple farm application nutrients that are common here (Canada and US). I would guess that the UK must have some farm and gardening outlets there too. Although I must admit I am not knowledgeable on the area you are if there is alot of farming.
This is a link for the nutrients in the US. I would not order from there to the UK as I am sure shipping would be outrageous. I just posted it so you could see what prices are like for the ingredients. Initial outlay in the US would be about 260.00 but you could literally make over 40 gallons of both A and B concentrate with that amount of ingredients.
Canna coco nutrients over here is aprox 55.00 per 5L
DIY Canna nutes work out to 1.62 per L
Canna brand nutes are 11.00 L over here
Best part is that after the intial investment, the first ingredient to get used up is the Calcium Nitrate which is also the cheapest. So the second time you ever have to buy you would only need the Calcium Nitrate portion. Lots of the other ingredients would still be on hand.
What it would all come down to is if there are farm type supply companies where you live.
Been making my own duplicates of name brand ferts for a while with the help of nutrient formulation software. Saves a ton of money if the ingredients are in your area.
budboy299Nov 5 2010, 02:39 PM
Here is another for you....
Over here a popular bloom enhancer is Mother of all Blooms (MOAB) made by Mad farmer. I've attached a picture of the label.
There is simply 3 ingredients in this dry powder. Mono-ammonium phosphate, Mono-potassium phosphate and thiamine hydrochloride (vitamin B1)
for 1kg bottle, the recipe is 90.81 grams of Mono-ammonium phosphate
908.19 grams of Mono-potassium phosphate
1.0 grams of thiamine hydrochloride (vitamin B1)
In the US this sells for 69.99
it literally has less than 3 dollars worth of fertilizer in it!
Now mono-ammonium phosphate on its own is 12-61-0 meaning 12% nitrogen, 61% phosporous, and 0% potassium
Mono-potassium phosphate is 0-52-34 meaning no nitrogen, 52% phosporous, and 34% potassium
99% of all bloom enhancers rely on simply 3 or 4 basic ingredients!!!
PK 13/14 is easily replicated using mono-potassium phosphate and soluable potash
Hammerhead PK 9/18 from advanced nutrients is simply the same ingredients again, mono-potassium phosphate and soluable potash.
NOTE..I edited this because my copy and pasting skills are horrible, but recipe is right.
budboy299Nov 5 2010, 02:41 PM
sorry picture did not come through, retrying this
strawberryNov 5 2010, 02:45 PM
QUOTE (budboy299 @ Nov 5 2010, 02:39 PM)
Now mono-ammonium phosphate on its own is 11-52-34 meaning 11% nitrogen, 52% phosporous, and 34% potassium
Isn't monoammonium phosphate just NH4H2PO4? Where does the potassium come from?
budboy299Nov 5 2010, 02:49 PM
Here is Hammerhead PK 9/18 sells in the US for 35.00 US for 1 Liter
Recipe as follows for 1 Liter size....
MonoPotassium Phosphate (0-52-34) 78.2grams
Sulphate of Potash 91.8grams
distilled or RO water, to top up to the 1L mark
as a preservative you can add 1 gram of sodium benzoate if you wish (food preservative)
Homemade exact duplicate is less than 50 cents
Guess who is making millions on selling us this stuff???
budboy299Nov 5 2010, 02:56 PM
Hiya strawberry, well technically K in the fertilizer rating stood for potash for years and years but then became known as potassium. Over here in the US the rating of out Mono-ammonium phosphate is 11-52-34. I am not sure if this is universal or if your UK version differs. You guys may have a better way of looking that up from where you are.
There is a great program called hydrobuddy that I use to duplicate formulas. its free on the net and works well. You may though have to tweek it a bit if your fertilizer salts are diferant in composition to ours.
anyhow here is the link to it.
http://scienceinhydroponics.com/
budboy299Nov 5 2010, 03:03 PM
Oh I get you now strawberry and you absolutely are right.
I copied and pasted from 2 different spots on my recipes. I will go back and fix that now. Man you UK dudes and gals are sharp!!!!
strawberryNov 5 2010, 03:05 PM
QUOTE (budboy299 @ Nov 5 2010, 02:56 PM)
Hiya strawberry, well technically K in the fertilizer rating stood for potash for years and years but then became known as potassium. Over here in the US the rating of out Mono-ammonium phosphate is 11-52-34. I am not sure if this is universal or if your UK version differs. You guys may have a better way of looking that up from where you are.
There is a great program called hydrobuddy that I use to duplicate formulas. its free on the net and works well. You may though have to tweek it a bit if your fertilizer salts are diferant in composition to ours.
anyhow here is the link to it.
http://scienceinhydroponics.com/
Hi budboy299, I've been mixing my own nutriants this year (just out of curiousity as much as anything). I perhaps shouldn't have worded my last post as a question. Monoammonium phosphate contains no potassium at all. It's formula NH4H2PO4 shows that it only contains nitrogen, hydrogen, phosphorus and oxygen. (Potash is just a name given to various potassium salts, none of which is present here.)
I looked up the NPK ration for Monoammonium phosphate and found (11-48-0) (ref: http://fieldcrop.msu.edu/documents/Phospha...ertilizers.pdf). I don't know that this is correct, actually I don't know the strict definition of NPK ratios (there seems to be more than one set of ratios given the information I see marked on commerical products), but a 0 for the potassium is definitely correct.
e2a: sorry, I missed your last post whilst I was replying.
budboy299Nov 5 2010, 03:08 PM
I think there may be a variation of NPK ratings from US/Canada to the UK.
our NPK of mono-ammonium phosphate is 12-61-0 and you said yours is 11-48-0
wish it were more universal.
take a look at hydro buddy though because I believe you can modify a salts formula within it
strawberryNov 5 2010, 03:16 PM
Hey budboy299, the ratio I posted is from MSU.edu (Michigan State Uni I believe).
The strict meaning of NPK ratios seems quite cloudy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NPK_rating
TutuNov 5 2010, 04:34 PM
If you want to bang me a recipe up for Plant Magic nutes you'll have a friend for life.
budboy299Nov 5 2010, 05:42 PM
QUOTE (Tutu @ Nov 5 2010, 05:34 PM)
If you want to bang me a recipe up for Plant Magic nutes you'll have a friend for life.
Man how could I pass that up hahaha.
I tried to pm you but maybe I do not have enough posts yet to do so.
I will need all the info off the label.
even the volume and weight (this helps to calculate density)
ingredients (if they are listed)
which product it is Coco, hydro or soil and which formula (hard water or soft)
I tried to get a close up picture of the labels but I cannot find them anywhere. It may be because it is not sold over here.
TutuNov 5 2010, 06:00 PM
I'll grab some pics at lights on (A few hours yet)
budboy299Nov 9 2010, 01:54 PM
QUOTE (Tutu @ Nov 5 2010, 06:00 PM)
I'll grab some pics at lights on (A few hours yet)
remember to grab me that info Tutu
organicfreakDec 8 2010, 12:54 AM
Hey friend
awsome info on canna
i googled and found this thread cause i wanted to know if people were supplimenting cal-mag+ with canna coco a+b.
now i read were you said theres ALOT in there but what about if your using r.o. water that has 000 ppm's?
most seem to suppliment with cal-mag+ to get up to 100-200 and others say its not necassary...
my thoughts are this.. If i use r.o. and you use tap 100-200ppms you WILL have mostly calmag in your 200 ppms ... and i would just have what was supplied in the bottle from canna
What about this supplimenting with sea mag Huboldt??? my thoughts on this is canna has 5% cal to make up for the fact that coco holds calcium.. and they only have 1% mag...
im having problems with my mommas there 3-4 ' tall trying to get heathy to take clones and theve went to shit.... pale green purple stems browspots purple veins stunted growth seems like a mag dificency?
my medium is 50/50 coco perlite water every 24 hrs.. 10 ml a + b rhizotonic, and canazyme =700 ppms with cal mag+200 =900ish every 24...
some recomend 2 much food need to flush but ive done this and they get worse with less or no ppms... so has to be not feeding enough right? or mag deficecies? or im concerened with ther 5% and my calmag+ 5ml/gal is TO MUCH CALCIUM locking out mag.... WHATCHA THINK?
also these are my nute's what do you have recipes for? u da man...
big bud
bud candy
snow storm
gravity
canna boost
pk 13/18 canna not hammer head..
seamag
seacal
rhizotonic
cannazyme
aquasheild
myco madness
flavorful
silica blast
liquid karma
voh very high output its an discontinued kelp foliar spray was suppose to be bomb dont know why they discontinued
so you use r.o water and liter or galon depending on your directions but the grams to you put on a scale? convert to ml?
thanks
o
ScouserDec 8 2010, 05:42 AM
That's a lot of stuff.
The all important Q. How do your plants look?
organicfreakDec 8 2010, 06:09 AM
haha thats, veg, foliar and bloom,
hi friend.. if you would have ask that 24 hrs ago would have been a sad story... however todays feeding i applied seamag and sea cal @ 4ml/gal each instead of my calmag+ 5ml/gal
and poof there turning green... imagine that there hungry for mag.. purple stem, leaves praying, and a pale green look 2 all of the plants. and now leaves are open more and look greener less then 20 hrs guess coco does work like hydro ...
so now im wondering
1.was cal mag to weak
2. was cal mag locked out and the humboldt products with the humic acid (included) cheselated the calmag better? however im using flavorful 2.5ml/gal fulvic acid, and myco madness 1/4 tsp. x gal so i have humic and fulvic watered in daily
3. was lacking some nitrogen or phosphurous cause they contain traces of both?
im really thinking mag was locked out...
what would you guys recomened? stick with secal and mag @ 5ml/gal cause the bottle and the website seems more like 2-3,but when i had the ppMs up 5 ml/gal of each roughly around 200-220
just ike calmag+... so should i just stick with what works? im scared cause there % of calcium and mag is higher even though ppms work out same? does that make sense?
thanks
o
organicfreakDec 8 2010, 06:41 AM
daily feed i have 20% runoff then i shopvac the leftovers (so smart pots are not sitting in water)
canna coco a 10ml/gal
canna coco b10ml/gal
rhizotonic 8ml/gal
cannazyme 10ml/gal
calmag+ 5ml/gal???????????? prob going to do 3-5 ml/gal of each but any recomendations....
silica blast 2.5ml/gal
aquasheild 2.5ml/gal
flavorful 2.5ml/gal
mycomadness 1/4 tsp/gal
foliar
mon & thursday
liquid lights/penetrator 60 ml/qrt each
wen, sat
liquid carma 1ml/qrt
wet betty 2ml/qrt
flavorful 1/4 tsp./qrt
and now
verde 1ml/qrt
seamag1ml/qrt
seacal 1ml/gal
flower
coco a
coco b
bud candy
big bud
gravity
snow storm .............. still working out the flower schedule any recomendations?
silica blast 2.5ml/gal
aquasheild 2.5ml/gal
flavorful 2.5ml/gal
foliar
canna boost
seamag
seacal
flavorful
organicfreakDec 8 2010, 06:45 AM
fast buddy i didt mean to hijack yourr thread like you im new to these threads so i cant pm you yet, but i posted here to get your recomendation on
calmag and canna coco and in your opening post you said"adding calmag to canna coco is redundant" and im using r.o. and finding I MUST SUPPLIMENT?????
and if you have any recipes for what im using or if you wann recomend somthing different plz feel free...
thanks
o
TutuDec 8 2010, 06:30 PM
PM cop out the only values seem to be the NPK on the label bugger all else.
http://www.plant-magic.co.uk/products/coco.htm
Sorry for the late reply.
budboy299Dec 9 2010, 03:02 PM
Organicfreak...
you will not need calmag+ no matter whatever water you use (RO or tap) If you are currently running 900ppm with calmag in the mix, drop the calmag and bump up your canna till it is back at the same level ppm as before.
Canna coco has the same 2 ingredients in it as calmag+ but more concentrated.
I have no idea how easy it is for you guys to get fertilizer salts over there but you literally can make a gallon of A and a gallon of B of canna coco for about 2 dollars each.
the toughest part you will find is finding small enough quantities of the base salts. Over here I buy the salts by the 50 lb bag. So I have nutes for life.
Calmag plus is simply
For 3.8 Litres
143.0 grams Magnesium Nitrate
43.4 grams Yara Calcium Nitrate
16.1 grams Iron DPTA 6%
1.2 grams Sodium Benzoate as a preservative to keep bacteria from growing
The cost of that for me to make is less than 1.50 US for almost 4 litres
organicfreakDec 10 2010, 10:03 AM
ty budboy for your response...
so i was having mag problems ...purple stems curling up lack of growth and no new green growth...
i added seamag and sea cal from humboldt and EVERYTHING IS channging back to green and growing again.... and i was using calmag+ prior @5ml/gal
so what does this mean??
I to believe canna has enough caland mag so do you think i was locking it all out with to much calcium& only when i added sea mag @ 4ml/gal did it override the calcium???
or was it not enough mag in the calmag/canna b to feed mj's insationable appitite?
also humboldt bost of how chaselated there product is fulvic acid or whatever but mabye the mag was able to be absorbed @ a differnt ph so it wasnt locked out no more?
I also was thinking like you said to drop calmag and give the full does @ 15ml/gal instead of the10/ml gal with calmag+.. againg these are my mommas so there big... 3' tall 7gallon pots.. so I think they deffinently should be able to handle 900ppms oh has own 1000w each and co2 1500ppms
now was reading you guys talk abou mixing over @ the farm your running connie for 1st couple weeks then connie+ overdrive rest correct?
hows that working for you?
whats your medium or style? coco soi aireo dwc etc..
I think its fuckin sweet to be able to cut AN,GH,and the rest out haha enough suckers will continue to buy..
Im totally wanting to stick with coco until i have enough$ and space and then go to coco for clone early veg. then dwc withe a solid coco rootball no hydrocorn or rockwool..
so Im down with making my own canna coco ab what about any of these?
rhizotonic,cannazym,liquid karma,aqua sheild,budcandy, big bud,canna boost,snow storm ,gravity
thanks
o
budboy299Dec 10 2010, 02:47 PM
I am guessing that the folier feed worked so fast for 2 reasons. 1- The application area is prime because the cal and mag are absorbed directly into the leaves and did not have to be transported within the plants and 2- foliar feeding shows results so much more quickly than through root feed. The only draw back to foliar feeding is that the strength of the feed has to be reduced as it is easy to burn the leaves.
I used the connie and overdrive in hydro and worked well.
Currently I am running exclusively coco with canna copied nutes
I run straight canna nutes in grow with my EC topping out around 1.2-1.5 (No calmag at all) Oh and also running roots excel at 1.1 ml/gallon till 3rd week of bloom
In bloom I start with PK13/14 (homemade version) at 2ml/litre and then I add my homemade canna till it tops out at around 1.4EC I ph balance to 6.3 and throughout the week it will drop to about 5.6
On week 6 I run the Moab(homemade version) at 1 tsp/ 5 gallons, then top up my nutes to around 1.4EC
Week 7 I run Moab(homemade version) at 2tsp/ 5 gallons, I drop my canna completely as I want no more nitrogen
Week 8 I begin to flush using Clearex (homemade version) and straight water (I do not ph as I am simply trying to suck all the nutes from the coco
Week 9 I run straight water
I chop at the end of week 9
This is totally strain dependent as my strain runs a little longer than some and shorter than others.
As far as other additives, with the exception of Bacteria and molasses, and occasionally silica, I don't bother using any.
I personally would not bother with botanicaires aqua shield. For the money they charge, it only contains a few beneficials. A better product is either Great white or a commercial agricultural mix.
I can't recall if you can post links on here...if not mods feel free to remove it.
[removed]
this is an agricultural mix that he buys in bulk and simply repacks to make a few bucks and works really well.
Another point too is that most beneficials will only keep for a limited time in a solution that contains liquid. Dry will keep considerably longer.
Enzyme products are products of fermented chicken manure so I really cannot see myself making any of that up. If you ever smell rotting chicken crap, you will know why!
Big bud is a tough one to copy as it contains magnesium phosphate in the form of FMP (fused magnesium phosphate). I simply cannot find anywhere to buy this in smaller quantities. Moab though imho works far better for way cheaper. The amino acids in Big Bud are simply there as a marketing ploy. There is little documentation on free form amino acids being of any significant use to the plants. What documentation there is, seems to swing either way dependent on who wrote it. B1 vitamin has been shown to help with stress in plants so adding a tiny bit of that can help.
hope this helps you somewhat
organicfreakDec 10 2010, 03:40 PM
also
look@sciencdro and have ?
do you buy from cropking?
are they cheapest around? fyi im fromu.s
good quality products?
also he recomends iron edta you reco dpta???????
organicfreakDec 10 2010, 04:04 PM
Ty for quick reply
couple ? from your response..
1. when you say you add somthing you say ----ml then top off ec. to 1.4 are you adding the ----ml then toping or making the solution 1.4 then adding ---- ml?
2.didnt foliar feed seamag.. actually took away 200ppms of calmad+ and added 4ml of seamag/and 4ml of seacal and litterally in hrs could see difference...
i just wanna know what i was doing wrong or rightt so i can fix it or not do it again... now my thoughts are either
A. seamag and calmag are highly chelselated making them more available @ differnt ph's maybe went below what ever itt was locking them out.
B. sea mag has other stuf like N P maybe k(i would have 2 look),and maybe with 200 outt of 900 being calmag + plus canna has equivalent to calmag so maybe CALCIUM was locking out M P causing slow growth lack of green and real purple stems not just veins but complete stems are purple...
3. wasnt giving enough ppms take away 100 for cannazym and rhizotonic and 200 for calmag they were getting 600 food thats 10 ml each a&b per galon canna full dose is 15ml galon eacha+b
4.you cut your coc with perlite im 50/50 figured this would allow me to water every 24hrs.
5 do you water every 24? and do you feed with every water?
like i ve said 50/50 coco perlite and smart pot is what i use...
was considering every 24hrs water and evryother feed with 15ml a+b ( depends what ppms are)this way theres a flushing evryother feed
and on the water days give them rhizotnic,cannazyme,silicablast calmag(just cause its r.o.water wont with the feeding since canna has so much)and either a fish suppliment or a kelp supliment(b52,liquid karma etc.) basically a 400ishppm flush everyother day
WHATCHA THINK?
organicfreakDec 12 2010, 04:12 PM
dude ive droped the calmag and added 15ml/gal of each A&B 1050 ppms .7 conversion
AND THEY LOOK FUCKING ALOT BETTER....
im obviously going to have to let the damaged leaves continue to grow and fall off but from the correction they maid other day from i believe mag lock out and now feeding them this way 1 time omg night annd day difference....
would you continue this every 24? or water /additives in between?
cause what im going to try this week
mon,wed,fri
canna a+b 15ml/gal of each 1050 PPMS
tues, thur,sat 500PPM
rhizotonic 8ml/gal
cannazyme 10ml/gal
liquid karma 10ml/gal
flvorful(fulvic acid) 2.5ml/gal
mycomadness 1/4 tsp/gal
silica blast 2.5ml/gal
calmag+ cause im using r.o and only on water days i agree with removing it from feed days
i also foliar feed on water days 800 PPMS
liquid Lights 60ml/gal
saturator 60ml/gal
seamag 1ml/L
seacal 1ml/L
flavorful 1ml/L
WHATCH THINK? to get some additives ontop of the feed and feed every day im afraid would be to high ppms and build up salt @ roots
i feel with an additive bath and liquid karma no choke huge kelp suppliment an on top with the foliar feed?
haha gues ill know 4 sure in the next week ...
organicfreakDec 18 2010, 10:01 PM
hi friens things were going good and now there turning to shit again... ive been feeding evry 42 hrs. which is 4 times aweek.. my ec is 1.6 and coming out .8-1.2 in the 20-30 % runoff...
however my huge conern is im using a 350$ hanna directly placed into the soil,soil meter.. its bad ass and acurate..
its reading 6.5-7.0 in the coco... now ive been puting in 5.8 like ed recomends...
so wtf? why such high ph? so last feeding left solution alone 4.8ph DID NOTHING....
and obviously this has to be reason for
purple stems purple veins in the leafs, some of the leaves have turned purple.. also droppy looking leaves,mag deficency curls, mag deficency yeloowing of leave start from outside fan leaves and works its way in...
guys i have been battling this for month tries all differnet kind sativa indica and mixes right now i have a mix of all 3 and there all showing same thing????
im thinking its the ph, or bugs, or dieses?
PLEASE HELP
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UK420 > Cultivation > Hydroponics > Coco Coir
budboy299Nov 4 2010, 06:43 PM
Part A 4-0-1
Calcium is 4.5%
Density 1176 g/l
Derived from Calcium Nitrate and Potassium Nitrate
4 Liters of concentrate
16.72 grams of Potassium Nitrate
526.0 grams of Yara Calcium Nitrate
72.3 grams Iron DPTA 7%
_______________________________________________________________________________
Part B 1-4-2
Magnesium 1.2%
Sulphur 1%
Density 1108 g/l
Derived from: Magnesium Nitrate, Magnesium Sulphate, and Potassium Phosphate
82 grams Magnesium Nitrate
136 grams Magnesium Sulphate
135.2 grams Mono-Potassium Phosphate
Trace minerals which are:
11.1 grams Zinc Sulphate
7.8 grams Manganese Sulphate
9.9 grams Copper Sulphate
14.5 grams Boric Acid
.1 gram Sodium Molybdate
also if you use Canna Coco, you more than likely will not need CalMag. This is because Calmag is composed of 1.2% Mg and 3.2% calcium, Ingredients are Calcium Nitrate and Magnesium Nitrate. The exact same ingredients already in Canna Coco, and Canna already has them in larger quantities than the Calmag. So adding the Calmag is redundant.
CalMag Plus is: 2-0-0
1.94% Nitrate Nitrogen
.06% water soluble nitrogen
3.2% Calcium
1.2% Magnesium
.1% chelated iron
Derived from: Calcium Nitrate 15.5-0-0
Magnesium Nitrate %15 MgO (%9.5 Mg) and %11 Nitrate Nitrogen
Iron DPTA 6%
For 3.8 Litres
143.0 grams Magnesium Nitrate
43.4 grams Yara Calcium Nitrate
16.1 grams Iron DPTA 6%
1.2 grams Sodium Benzoate (as a preservative)
taloula23Nov 5 2010, 08:25 AM
wow that all looks pretty tech>>>> what is it exactly ?? a nutrient recipe? do you use it? is it a home made recipe for coco nutes?? not sure where the canna comes in to it!!
T23
budboy299Nov 5 2010, 02:15 PM
It is a duplicate of Canna's brand of coco nutrients A and B solution. I think it is used in the UK alot so I thought I would post it for you guys.
All the ingredients are simple farm application nutrients that are common here (Canada and US). I would guess that the UK must have some farm and gardening outlets there too. Although I must admit I am not knowledgeable on the area you are if there is alot of farming.
This is a link for the nutrients in the US. I would not order from there to the UK as I am sure shipping would be outrageous. I just posted it so you could see what prices are like for the ingredients. Initial outlay in the US would be about 260.00 but you could literally make over 40 gallons of both A and B concentrate with that amount of ingredients.
Canna coco nutrients over here is aprox 55.00 per 5L
DIY Canna nutes work out to 1.62 per L
Canna brand nutes are 11.00 L over here
Best part is that after the intial investment, the first ingredient to get used up is the Calcium Nitrate which is also the cheapest. So the second time you ever have to buy you would only need the Calcium Nitrate portion. Lots of the other ingredients would still be on hand.
What it would all come down to is if there are farm type supply companies where you live.
Been making my own duplicates of name brand ferts for a while with the help of nutrient formulation software. Saves a ton of money if the ingredients are in your area.
budboy299Nov 5 2010, 02:39 PM
Here is another for you....
Over here a popular bloom enhancer is Mother of all Blooms (MOAB) made by Mad farmer. I've attached a picture of the label.
There is simply 3 ingredients in this dry powder. Mono-ammonium phosphate, Mono-potassium phosphate and thiamine hydrochloride (vitamin B1)
for 1kg bottle, the recipe is 90.81 grams of Mono-ammonium phosphate
908.19 grams of Mono-potassium phosphate
1.0 grams of thiamine hydrochloride (vitamin B1)
In the US this sells for 69.99
it literally has less than 3 dollars worth of fertilizer in it!
Now mono-ammonium phosphate on its own is 12-61-0 meaning 12% nitrogen, 61% phosporous, and 0% potassium
Mono-potassium phosphate is 0-52-34 meaning no nitrogen, 52% phosporous, and 34% potassium
99% of all bloom enhancers rely on simply 3 or 4 basic ingredients!!!
PK 13/14 is easily replicated using mono-potassium phosphate and soluable potash
Hammerhead PK 9/18 from advanced nutrients is simply the same ingredients again, mono-potassium phosphate and soluable potash.
NOTE..I edited this because my copy and pasting skills are horrible, but recipe is right.
budboy299Nov 5 2010, 02:41 PM
sorry picture did not come through, retrying this
strawberryNov 5 2010, 02:45 PM
QUOTE (budboy299 @ Nov 5 2010, 02:39 PM)
Now mono-ammonium phosphate on its own is 11-52-34 meaning 11% nitrogen, 52% phosporous, and 34% potassium
Isn't monoammonium phosphate just NH4H2PO4? Where does the potassium come from?
budboy299Nov 5 2010, 02:49 PM
Here is Hammerhead PK 9/18 sells in the US for 35.00 US for 1 Liter
Recipe as follows for 1 Liter size....
MonoPotassium Phosphate (0-52-34) 78.2grams
Sulphate of Potash 91.8grams
distilled or RO water, to top up to the 1L mark
as a preservative you can add 1 gram of sodium benzoate if you wish (food preservative)
Homemade exact duplicate is less than 50 cents
Guess who is making millions on selling us this stuff???
budboy299Nov 5 2010, 02:56 PM
Hiya strawberry, well technically K in the fertilizer rating stood for potash for years and years but then became known as potassium. Over here in the US the rating of out Mono-ammonium phosphate is 11-52-34. I am not sure if this is universal or if your UK version differs. You guys may have a better way of looking that up from where you are.
There is a great program called hydrobuddy that I use to duplicate formulas. its free on the net and works well. You may though have to tweek it a bit if your fertilizer salts are diferant in composition to ours.
anyhow here is the link to it.
http://scienceinhydroponics.com/
budboy299Nov 5 2010, 03:03 PM
Oh I get you now strawberry and you absolutely are right.
I copied and pasted from 2 different spots on my recipes. I will go back and fix that now. Man you UK dudes and gals are sharp!!!!
strawberryNov 5 2010, 03:05 PM
QUOTE (budboy299 @ Nov 5 2010, 02:56 PM)
Hiya strawberry, well technically K in the fertilizer rating stood for potash for years and years but then became known as potassium. Over here in the US the rating of out Mono-ammonium phosphate is 11-52-34. I am not sure if this is universal or if your UK version differs. You guys may have a better way of looking that up from where you are.
There is a great program called hydrobuddy that I use to duplicate formulas. its free on the net and works well. You may though have to tweek it a bit if your fertilizer salts are diferant in composition to ours.
anyhow here is the link to it.
http://scienceinhydroponics.com/
Hi budboy299, I've been mixing my own nutriants this year (just out of curiousity as much as anything). I perhaps shouldn't have worded my last post as a question. Monoammonium phosphate contains no potassium at all. It's formula NH4H2PO4 shows that it only contains nitrogen, hydrogen, phosphorus and oxygen. (Potash is just a name given to various potassium salts, none of which is present here.)
I looked up the NPK ration for Monoammonium phosphate and found (11-48-0) (ref: http://fieldcrop.msu.edu/documents/Phospha...ertilizers.pdf). I don't know that this is correct, actually I don't know the strict definition of NPK ratios (there seems to be more than one set of ratios given the information I see marked on commerical products), but a 0 for the potassium is definitely correct.
e2a: sorry, I missed your last post whilst I was replying.
budboy299Nov 5 2010, 03:08 PM
I think there may be a variation of NPK ratings from US/Canada to the UK.
our NPK of mono-ammonium phosphate is 12-61-0 and you said yours is 11-48-0
wish it were more universal.
take a look at hydro buddy though because I believe you can modify a salts formula within it
strawberryNov 5 2010, 03:16 PM
Hey budboy299, the ratio I posted is from MSU.edu (Michigan State Uni I believe).
The strict meaning of NPK ratios seems quite cloudy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NPK_rating
TutuNov 5 2010, 04:34 PM
If you want to bang me a recipe up for Plant Magic nutes you'll have a friend for life.
budboy299Nov 5 2010, 05:42 PM
QUOTE (Tutu @ Nov 5 2010, 05:34 PM)
If you want to bang me a recipe up for Plant Magic nutes you'll have a friend for life.
Man how could I pass that up hahaha.
I tried to pm you but maybe I do not have enough posts yet to do so.
I will need all the info off the label.
even the volume and weight (this helps to calculate density)
ingredients (if they are listed)
which product it is Coco, hydro or soil and which formula (hard water or soft)
I tried to get a close up picture of the labels but I cannot find them anywhere. It may be because it is not sold over here.
TutuNov 5 2010, 06:00 PM
I'll grab some pics at lights on (A few hours yet)
budboy299Nov 9 2010, 01:54 PM
QUOTE (Tutu @ Nov 5 2010, 06:00 PM)
I'll grab some pics at lights on (A few hours yet)
remember to grab me that info Tutu
organicfreakDec 8 2010, 12:54 AM
Hey friend
awsome info on canna
i googled and found this thread cause i wanted to know if people were supplimenting cal-mag+ with canna coco a+b.
now i read were you said theres ALOT in there but what about if your using r.o. water that has 000 ppm's?
most seem to suppliment with cal-mag+ to get up to 100-200 and others say its not necassary...
my thoughts are this.. If i use r.o. and you use tap 100-200ppms you WILL have mostly calmag in your 200 ppms ... and i would just have what was supplied in the bottle from canna
What about this supplimenting with sea mag Huboldt??? my thoughts on this is canna has 5% cal to make up for the fact that coco holds calcium.. and they only have 1% mag...
im having problems with my mommas there 3-4 ' tall trying to get heathy to take clones and theve went to shit.... pale green purple stems browspots purple veins stunted growth seems like a mag dificency?
my medium is 50/50 coco perlite water every 24 hrs.. 10 ml a + b rhizotonic, and canazyme =700 ppms with cal mag+200 =900ish every 24...
some recomend 2 much food need to flush but ive done this and they get worse with less or no ppms... so has to be not feeding enough right? or mag deficecies? or im concerened with ther 5% and my calmag+ 5ml/gal is TO MUCH CALCIUM locking out mag.... WHATCHA THINK?
also these are my nute's what do you have recipes for? u da man...
big bud
bud candy
snow storm
gravity
canna boost
pk 13/18 canna not hammer head..
seamag
seacal
rhizotonic
cannazyme
aquasheild
myco madness
flavorful
silica blast
liquid karma
voh very high output its an discontinued kelp foliar spray was suppose to be bomb dont know why they discontinued
so you use r.o water and liter or galon depending on your directions but the grams to you put on a scale? convert to ml?
thanks
o
ScouserDec 8 2010, 05:42 AM
That's a lot of stuff.
The all important Q. How do your plants look?
organicfreakDec 8 2010, 06:09 AM
haha thats, veg, foliar and bloom,
hi friend.. if you would have ask that 24 hrs ago would have been a sad story... however todays feeding i applied seamag and sea cal @ 4ml/gal each instead of my calmag+ 5ml/gal
and poof there turning green... imagine that there hungry for mag.. purple stem, leaves praying, and a pale green look 2 all of the plants. and now leaves are open more and look greener less then 20 hrs guess coco does work like hydro ...
so now im wondering
1.was cal mag to weak
2. was cal mag locked out and the humboldt products with the humic acid (included) cheselated the calmag better? however im using flavorful 2.5ml/gal fulvic acid, and myco madness 1/4 tsp. x gal so i have humic and fulvic watered in daily
3. was lacking some nitrogen or phosphurous cause they contain traces of both?
im really thinking mag was locked out...
what would you guys recomened? stick with secal and mag @ 5ml/gal cause the bottle and the website seems more like 2-3,but when i had the ppMs up 5 ml/gal of each roughly around 200-220
just ike calmag+... so should i just stick with what works? im scared cause there % of calcium and mag is higher even though ppms work out same? does that make sense?
thanks
o
organicfreakDec 8 2010, 06:41 AM
daily feed i have 20% runoff then i shopvac the leftovers (so smart pots are not sitting in water)
canna coco a 10ml/gal
canna coco b10ml/gal
rhizotonic 8ml/gal
cannazyme 10ml/gal
calmag+ 5ml/gal???????????? prob going to do 3-5 ml/gal of each but any recomendations....
silica blast 2.5ml/gal
aquasheild 2.5ml/gal
flavorful 2.5ml/gal
mycomadness 1/4 tsp/gal
foliar
mon & thursday
liquid lights/penetrator 60 ml/qrt each
wen, sat
liquid carma 1ml/qrt
wet betty 2ml/qrt
flavorful 1/4 tsp./qrt
and now
verde 1ml/qrt
seamag1ml/qrt
seacal 1ml/gal
flower
coco a
coco b
bud candy
big bud
gravity
snow storm .............. still working out the flower schedule any recomendations?
silica blast 2.5ml/gal
aquasheild 2.5ml/gal
flavorful 2.5ml/gal
foliar
canna boost
seamag
seacal
flavorful
organicfreakDec 8 2010, 06:45 AM
fast buddy i didt mean to hijack yourr thread like you im new to these threads so i cant pm you yet, but i posted here to get your recomendation on
calmag and canna coco and in your opening post you said"adding calmag to canna coco is redundant" and im using r.o. and finding I MUST SUPPLIMENT?????
and if you have any recipes for what im using or if you wann recomend somthing different plz feel free...
thanks
o
TutuDec 8 2010, 06:30 PM
PM cop out the only values seem to be the NPK on the label bugger all else.
http://www.plant-magic.co.uk/products/coco.htm
Sorry for the late reply.
budboy299Dec 9 2010, 03:02 PM
Organicfreak...
you will not need calmag+ no matter whatever water you use (RO or tap) If you are currently running 900ppm with calmag in the mix, drop the calmag and bump up your canna till it is back at the same level ppm as before.
Canna coco has the same 2 ingredients in it as calmag+ but more concentrated.
I have no idea how easy it is for you guys to get fertilizer salts over there but you literally can make a gallon of A and a gallon of B of canna coco for about 2 dollars each.
the toughest part you will find is finding small enough quantities of the base salts. Over here I buy the salts by the 50 lb bag. So I have nutes for life.
Calmag plus is simply
For 3.8 Litres
143.0 grams Magnesium Nitrate
43.4 grams Yara Calcium Nitrate
16.1 grams Iron DPTA 6%
1.2 grams Sodium Benzoate as a preservative to keep bacteria from growing
The cost of that for me to make is less than 1.50 US for almost 4 litres
organicfreakDec 10 2010, 10:03 AM
ty budboy for your response...
so i was having mag problems ...purple stems curling up lack of growth and no new green growth...
i added seamag and sea cal from humboldt and EVERYTHING IS channging back to green and growing again.... and i was using calmag+ prior @5ml/gal
so what does this mean??
I to believe canna has enough caland mag so do you think i was locking it all out with to much calcium& only when i added sea mag @ 4ml/gal did it override the calcium???
or was it not enough mag in the calmag/canna b to feed mj's insationable appitite?
also humboldt bost of how chaselated there product is fulvic acid or whatever but mabye the mag was able to be absorbed @ a differnt ph so it wasnt locked out no more?
I also was thinking like you said to drop calmag and give the full does @ 15ml/gal instead of the10/ml gal with calmag+.. againg these are my mommas so there big... 3' tall 7gallon pots.. so I think they deffinently should be able to handle 900ppms oh has own 1000w each and co2 1500ppms
now was reading you guys talk abou mixing over @ the farm your running connie for 1st couple weeks then connie+ overdrive rest correct?
hows that working for you?
whats your medium or style? coco soi aireo dwc etc..
I think its fuckin sweet to be able to cut AN,GH,and the rest out haha enough suckers will continue to buy..
Im totally wanting to stick with coco until i have enough$ and space and then go to coco for clone early veg. then dwc withe a solid coco rootball no hydrocorn or rockwool..
so Im down with making my own canna coco ab what about any of these?
rhizotonic,cannazym,liquid karma,aqua sheild,budcandy, big bud,canna boost,snow storm ,gravity
thanks
o
budboy299Dec 10 2010, 02:47 PM
I am guessing that the folier feed worked so fast for 2 reasons. 1- The application area is prime because the cal and mag are absorbed directly into the leaves and did not have to be transported within the plants and 2- foliar feeding shows results so much more quickly than through root feed. The only draw back to foliar feeding is that the strength of the feed has to be reduced as it is easy to burn the leaves.
I used the connie and overdrive in hydro and worked well.
Currently I am running exclusively coco with canna copied nutes
I run straight canna nutes in grow with my EC topping out around 1.2-1.5 (No calmag at all) Oh and also running roots excel at 1.1 ml/gallon till 3rd week of bloom
In bloom I start with PK13/14 (homemade version) at 2ml/litre and then I add my homemade canna till it tops out at around 1.4EC I ph balance to 6.3 and throughout the week it will drop to about 5.6
On week 6 I run the Moab(homemade version) at 1 tsp/ 5 gallons, then top up my nutes to around 1.4EC
Week 7 I run Moab(homemade version) at 2tsp/ 5 gallons, I drop my canna completely as I want no more nitrogen
Week 8 I begin to flush using Clearex (homemade version) and straight water (I do not ph as I am simply trying to suck all the nutes from the coco
Week 9 I run straight water
I chop at the end of week 9
This is totally strain dependent as my strain runs a little longer than some and shorter than others.
As far as other additives, with the exception of Bacteria and molasses, and occasionally silica, I don't bother using any.
I personally would not bother with botanicaires aqua shield. For the money they charge, it only contains a few beneficials. A better product is either Great white or a commercial agricultural mix.
I can't recall if you can post links on here...if not mods feel free to remove it.
[removed]
this is an agricultural mix that he buys in bulk and simply repacks to make a few bucks and works really well.
Another point too is that most beneficials will only keep for a limited time in a solution that contains liquid. Dry will keep considerably longer.
Enzyme products are products of fermented chicken manure so I really cannot see myself making any of that up. If you ever smell rotting chicken crap, you will know why!
Big bud is a tough one to copy as it contains magnesium phosphate in the form of FMP (fused magnesium phosphate). I simply cannot find anywhere to buy this in smaller quantities. Moab though imho works far better for way cheaper. The amino acids in Big Bud are simply there as a marketing ploy. There is little documentation on free form amino acids being of any significant use to the plants. What documentation there is, seems to swing either way dependent on who wrote it. B1 vitamin has been shown to help with stress in plants so adding a tiny bit of that can help.
hope this helps you somewhat
organicfreakDec 10 2010, 03:40 PM
also
look@sciencdro and have ?
do you buy from cropking?
are they cheapest around? fyi im fromu.s
good quality products?
also he recomends iron edta you reco dpta???????
organicfreakDec 10 2010, 04:04 PM
Ty for quick reply
couple ? from your response..
1. when you say you add somthing you say ----ml then top off ec. to 1.4 are you adding the ----ml then toping or making the solution 1.4 then adding ---- ml?
2.didnt foliar feed seamag.. actually took away 200ppms of calmad+ and added 4ml of seamag/and 4ml of seacal and litterally in hrs could see difference...
i just wanna know what i was doing wrong or rightt so i can fix it or not do it again... now my thoughts are either
A. seamag and calmag are highly chelselated making them more available @ differnt ph's maybe went below what ever itt was locking them out.
B. sea mag has other stuf like N P maybe k(i would have 2 look),and maybe with 200 outt of 900 being calmag + plus canna has equivalent to calmag so maybe CALCIUM was locking out M P causing slow growth lack of green and real purple stems not just veins but complete stems are purple...
3. wasnt giving enough ppms take away 100 for cannazym and rhizotonic and 200 for calmag they were getting 600 food thats 10 ml each a&b per galon canna full dose is 15ml galon eacha+b
4.you cut your coc with perlite im 50/50 figured this would allow me to water every 24hrs.
5 do you water every 24? and do you feed with every water?
like i ve said 50/50 coco perlite and smart pot is what i use...
was considering every 24hrs water and evryother feed with 15ml a+b ( depends what ppms are)this way theres a flushing evryother feed
and on the water days give them rhizotnic,cannazyme,silicablast calmag(just cause its r.o.water wont with the feeding since canna has so much)and either a fish suppliment or a kelp supliment(b52,liquid karma etc.) basically a 400ishppm flush everyother day
WHATCHA THINK?
organicfreakDec 12 2010, 04:12 PM
dude ive droped the calmag and added 15ml/gal of each A&B 1050 ppms .7 conversion
AND THEY LOOK FUCKING ALOT BETTER....
im obviously going to have to let the damaged leaves continue to grow and fall off but from the correction they maid other day from i believe mag lock out and now feeding them this way 1 time omg night annd day difference....
would you continue this every 24? or water /additives in between?
cause what im going to try this week
mon,wed,fri
canna a+b 15ml/gal of each 1050 PPMS
tues, thur,sat 500PPM
rhizotonic 8ml/gal
cannazyme 10ml/gal
liquid karma 10ml/gal
flvorful(fulvic acid) 2.5ml/gal
mycomadness 1/4 tsp/gal
silica blast 2.5ml/gal
calmag+ cause im using r.o and only on water days i agree with removing it from feed days
i also foliar feed on water days 800 PPMS
liquid Lights 60ml/gal
saturator 60ml/gal
seamag 1ml/L
seacal 1ml/L
flavorful 1ml/L
WHATCH THINK? to get some additives ontop of the feed and feed every day im afraid would be to high ppms and build up salt @ roots
i feel with an additive bath and liquid karma no choke huge kelp suppliment an on top with the foliar feed?
haha gues ill know 4 sure in the next week ...
organicfreakDec 18 2010, 10:01 PM
hi friens things were going good and now there turning to shit again... ive been feeding evry 42 hrs. which is 4 times aweek.. my ec is 1.6 and coming out .8-1.2 in the 20-30 % runoff...
however my huge conern is im using a 350$ hanna directly placed into the soil,soil meter.. its bad ass and acurate..
its reading 6.5-7.0 in the coco... now ive been puting in 5.8 like ed recomends...
so wtf? why such high ph? so last feeding left solution alone 4.8ph DID NOTHING....
and obviously this has to be reason for
purple stems purple veins in the leafs, some of the leaves have turned purple.. also droppy looking leaves,mag deficency curls, mag deficency yeloowing of leave start from outside fan leaves and works its way in...
guys i have been battling this for month tries all differnet kind sativa indica and mixes right now i have a mix of all 3 and there all showing same thing????
im thinking its the ph, or bugs, or dieses?
PLEASE HELP
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dababydroman
Well-Known Member
dude that shit isent going to help anybody if y ou ask me its just takeing up space.
you can dilute things into your water like milk, mollassas, a little bit of beer, and even piss. or make your own composted soil with vegatable, and fruit, scraps aong with grass or any other plants.,
you can dilute things into your water like milk, mollassas, a little bit of beer, and even piss. or make your own composted soil with vegatable, and fruit, scraps aong with grass or any other plants.,
Wolverine97
Well-Known Member
And just how exactly does that relate to this thread?
iriefarmer
Active Member
Organic fertilizers added to soil for nutrients:
Material/NPK/Nutrient Release Rate
Alfalfa meal/2.5-0.5-2.0/slow
Blood Meal/12.5-1.5-0.6/med-fast
Bone Meal/4.0-21.0-0.2/slow (may cause acidity)
Cottonseed Meal/7.0-2.5-1.5/slow-med
Crab Meal/10.0-0.3-0.1/slow
Fish Meal/10.0-5.0-0.0/med
Bat Guano/5.5-8.6-1.5/med
Seabird Guano/12.3-11-2.5/med
Kelp Meal/1.0-0.5-8.0/slow
Soybean Meal/6.5-1.5-2.4/slow-med
Worm Castings/1.5-2.5-1.3/medium
Homemade "plant food" soil additives:
I've found all of these methods useful in gardening marijuana and other plants
Coffee Grounds (http://www.gardeningknowhow.com/comp...-gardening.htm)
Compost Tea (http://www.finegardening.com/how-to/...mpost-tea.aspx)
Molasses (http://www.weekendgardener.net/organ...ses-050805.htm)
kingofqueen
Well-Known Member
Wasn't the right reply for THIS thread but , thats some epic shit in there for hydro guys that want to formulate their own mixes ,this should get a good title and be posted in nutrients or hydro section . I,ll plus rep it ! He wasnt specific to organics in his question anyhoo .+rep
The Yorkshireman
Well-Known Member
I hand you CANNA's recipes (all the ingredients are available on Ebay) on a plate and you say it isn't going to help anybody,I'm sure your answer was far more helpful!
hillydirtfarmer
Member
my go...d yourkshire...we're not all chemist here....nice butt btw, I was gonna say bat crap and some sheep shiit...lol. lots to use.its all GODS gift rot it down,till it in burn it up!
hillydirtfarmer
Member
Kudos ...and greeetings from the Great Smokies.....rot it down,turn it in ,burn it up!
hillydirtfarmer
Member
mr,is human urine a stable source of N ? guess it depends on what you eat huh?...would like to get some feed back on human urine as a source of N.
iriefarmer
Active Member
holy thread killer batman!
The Yorkshireman
Well-Known Member
You don't have to be a chemist,how hard is it to add 1 tablespoon of Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom salts) to a gallon of water?
It's YORKSHIRE, as in the shire of York. England mate,England.
You wouldn't call a Texan a Tecsen would you?