More Freedom Loving Lefties On The March

Serapis

Well-Known Member
I know better than to get into these conversations with you because you do the same thing in everyone that you are bested in... you twist words and play semantics..... "junk food doesn't make you fat"..... ten posts later"EATING junk food might"... you just play with fucking words.... go read the bill of rights my man... if the government cannot infringe on your right to bear arms, it is a right that is implicitly granted, no matter how you want to word it.....

It doesn't say you have the right to bear arms, it says that right may not be infringed.

I know whats going on, you got the Chinese made version of the Constitution, where the words are all pigeon english. In my American Version it says " the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
The Constitution not only has a Bill of Rights, it also references God given inalienable rights... The right to Freedom of worship, to bear arms, these are recognized rights. How many times does the word "right" need to be in the document before people accept them for what they are?
The single inalienable right in the Constitution is the right to due process. Your life, your liberty and your property can be legally taken and are with great regularity. You can be kept from attending the church of your choice (talk to some of the churches that use mind altering substances in sacrament), you can be kept from speaking or owning a firearm. All rights are in one way or another negotiable or rescindable. In compensation for this we have the right to due process. We have the singular right to be apprised of the situation and present our case and be heard. Now what use is that particular right if there is no government? And so it is no natural right. Furthermore, that right can be said to have been granted us by the Constitution.

What is being said is that the Constitution only protects rights that one already has, much as we all have legs or fingers we come equiped with a set of rights - this is fine and a wonderful idea but the truth is somewhere short of that.
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
The fact of the matter is, rights are spelled out in the Constitution.... That was my only point.... sure you can have your gun taken away, in the commission of a felony.... your right to bear it is forfeit if you become a felon... The bottom line is, those rights exist to everyone that is an American citizen. Whether they freely shoose to give up the rights by choice or by committing a felony is up to the individual.... As long as the Constitution stands, we have rights recognized by the document....

The single inalienable right in the Constitution is the right to due process. Your life, your liberty and your property can be legally taken and are with great regularity. You can be kept from attending the church of your choice (talk to some of the churches that use mind altering substances in sacrament), you can be kept from speaking or owning a firearm. All rights are in one way or another negotiable or rescindable. In compensation for this we have the right to due process. We have the singular right to be apprised of the situation and present our case and be heard. Now what use is that particular right if there is no government? And so it is no natural right. Furthermore, that right can be said to have been granted us by the Constitution.

What is being said is that the Constitution only protects rights that one already has, much as we all have legs or fingers we come equiped with a set of rights - this is fine and a wonderful idea but the truth is somewhere short of that.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
The fact of the matter is, rights are spelled out in the Constitution.... That was my only point.... sure you can have your gun taken away, in the commission of a felony.... your right to bear it is forfeit if you become a felon... The bottom line is, those rights exist to everyone that is an American citizen. Whether they freely shoose to give up the rights by choice or by committing a felony is up to the individual.... As long as the Constitution stands, we have rights recognized by the document....

Serapis, NoDrama is claiming that the Constitution does nothing but guarantee rights rather than actually grant them to you. I am saying that when there is no interaction between a government and an individual then there really is no concept of right. If there is no concept of right then indeed, it may be that the Constitution still actually "grants" you your rights. Furthermore, as I said, every other "right" can be ignored. A gun may be taken from an individual even if they are not felons. Furthermore, if the BOR describes natural rights then being a felon cannot divest that felon of his "rights".
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
I really don't want to argue with you, but I don't play word games.... He stated that the Constitution has no mention of rights. He also stated that there was no right in the Constitution from warrant less searches or to remain silent...., he is wrong on both counts... he can word it differently or play games now, the point was, he said the Constitution doesn't grant us the right to bear arms, that we already had that right..... really? We did? Where? Sure a gun can be taken away if you break the law or are considered mentally ill...... in all other circumstances, I'd be contacting a lawyer and suing...

Serapis, NoDrama is claiming that the Constitution does nothing but guarantee rights rather than actually grant them to you. I am saying that when there is no interaction between a government and an individual then there really is no concept of right. If there is no concept of right then indeed, it may be that the Constitution still actually "grants" you your rights. Furthermore, as I said, every other "right" can be ignored. A gun may be taken from an individual even if they are not felons. Furthermore, if the BOR describes natural rights then being a felon cannot divest that felon of his "rights".
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
The Miranda warning (also referred to as Miranda rights) is a warning that is required to be given by police in the United States to criminal suspects in police custody (or in a custodial interrogation) before they are interrogated to inform them about their constitutional rights. In Miranda v. Arizona, the Supreme Court of the United States held that an elicited incriminating statement by a suspect will not constitute admissible evidence unless the suspect was informed of the right to decline to make self-incriminatory statements and the right to legal counsel (hence the so-called "Miranda rights"), and makes a knowing, intelligent and voluntary waiver of those rights.[Note 1] The Miranda warning is not a condition of detention, but rather a safeguard against self-incrimination; as a result, if law enforcement officials decline to offer a Miranda warning to an individual in their custody, they may still interrogate that person and act upon the knowledge gained, but may not use that person's statements to incriminate him or her in a criminal trial.
Under the U.S. Supreme Court decision in Berghuis v. Thompkins suspects retain their 5th Amendment right to remain silent, however, if a suspect waives this right and interrogation begins, the right to halt further interrogation by the police must be exercised explicitly, by revoking the prior waiver of this 5th Amendment right.


Serapis, we are not in disagreement. Miranda is a due process right, a right which I contend is the only true inalienable right in the Constitution and one that is actually granted by the Constitution.
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
The quote below started it all.... the word enumerate, that he used, means to list one by one..... He claimed that the Constitution dd not list rights... he was wrong... and now it is all a word play...


You don't even know what the US Constitution is, do you? Not one single right is enumerated in the Constitution, your rights do not come from the constitution. There is no guarantee of anything.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
The fact of the matter is, rights are spelled out in the Constitution.... That was my only point.... sure you can have your gun taken away, in the commission of a felony.... your right to bear it is forfeit if you become a felon... The bottom line is, those rights exist to everyone that is an American citizen. Whether they freely shoose to give up the rights by choice or by committing a felony is up to the individual.... As long as the Constitution stands, we have rights recognized by the document....
A better question would be: "What rights does the U.S. Constitution prevent the U.S. Government from taking away?"

 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
The quote below started it all.... the word enumerate, that he used, means to list one by one..... He claimed that the Constitution dd not list rights... he was wrong... and now it is all a word play...
If rights are all enumerated in the Constitution then where is the one that says you have the right to live free from harm? Where is the right that says you can kill someone who breaks into your home? Where is the right that lets me choose between Pepsi and Coke? Where is the right granting me free reign over my household and property? Where is the right listed that says I can do what I want, except go 55 in a 35? Your rights are unlimited, there isn't enough Hemp paper in the world to list them all.
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
But there are rights in the Constitution and look, they are numbered, making your previous statement incorrect.....


If rights are all enumerated in the Constitution then where is the one that says you have the right to live free from harm? Where is the right that says you can kill someone who breaks into your home? Where is the right that lets me choose between Pepsi and Coke? Where is the right granting me free reign over my household and property? Where is the right listed that says I can do what I want, except go 55 in a 35? Your rights are unlimited, there isn't enough Hemp paper in the world to list them all.
 

The Cryptkeeper

Well-Known Member
I'm bored, and I saw this in the new posts, so I've decided to play with fire. :D

There is only one, single, solitary right in all the world of mankind. Free will. Nobody can stop you from trying to do, whatever the fuck you want. :)
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
The quote below started it all.... the word enumerate, that he used, means to list one by one..... He claimed that the Constitution dd not list rights... he was wrong... and now it is all a word play...
Actually it was this that started it all, the fact that you think the constitution gives you rights and that since it is not enumerated in the Constitution then people DO NOT have the right to eat sugary snacks.

Please show me where in the constitution there is a guarantee of the freedom to eat high sugary foods in public school? I'm on your side once you do...
Do you really believe that because the Bill of Rights does not specifically say " You have the right to eat sugary snacks" then you do not have that right? Honestly? Loony Bin material.
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
Go back and read that in context..... if you want to start name calling now, I'll be happy to oblige you...... I have a few in mind right now that describe you to a fucking tee.... ;)

Actually it was this that started it all, the fact that you think the constitution gives you rights and that since it is not enumerated in the Constitution then people DO NOT have the right to eat sugary snacks.



Do you really believe that because the Bill of Rights does not specifically say " You have the right to eat sugary snacks" then you do not have that right? Honestly? Loony Bin material.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
But there are rights in the Constitution and look, they are numbered, making your previous statement incorrect.....
LOL Already bringing up points that have already been proven. what part of :


NO WHERE does it give you rights. Read it over and over and over until you realize that what i am saying is 100% truth. The second amendment doesn't give you the right to bear arms, it merely states that that right ( Which you already had) may not be infringed upon. Read all of the Amendments, find a single one that isn't a limitation to government power.

First one.... Congress shall make no law

Second one......shall not be infringed

Third......... without the consent of the Owner

Fourth........shall not be violated

Fifth.....No person shall be held to answer

Sixth..... a speedy and public trial

Seventh.....no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any court

Eighth......Excessive bail shall not be required

Ninth..... shall not be construed

Tenth...... powers not delegated to the United States


Limitations on Government...any questions?


Did you not understand?
 
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