Who Believes In God?

[natmoon]

It has nothing to do with semantics and everything to do with physics.
The universe is not possible

 

[iblazethatkush]

It has nothing to do with semantics and everything to do with physics.
The universe is not possible

I don't want to get into this stuff again. But, I believe Nat is right, email. One of the most basic rules of physics is that energy can be neither created nor destroyed.

 

[email468]

I don't want to get into this stuff again. But, I believe Nat is right, email. One of the most basic rules of physics is that energy can be neither created nor destroyed.

in a closed system - universe != closed system

someone is misunderstanding physics i think.

 

[skunkushybrid]

Ok, so if a god created the universe, why'd he only put life on one planet? Why make the universe an uninhabitable place?

Why make it so that it is still growing or expanding?

Jesus didn't exist... it's a complete story made up by the romans. Rome didn't burn, they just turned catholic, and ruled the world through religion. A religion that they created to control the masses.

There never was a jesus, well there was probably hundreds of them (popular name back then). What of the old testament... where the saviour of mankind was a bloke called joseph? Funnily enough he was born of a virgin too, and is the original stencil for the jesus people believe existed, today.

What of set, the egyptian god... born of a virgin, on december 25th... these same patterns have been used time and time again throughout history and in a multitude of different religions. Same M.O. every time.

 

[email468]

Ok, so if a god created the universe, why'd he only put life on one planet? Why make the universe an uninhabitable place?

Why make it so that it is still growing or expanding?

Jesus didn't exist... it's a complete story made up by the romans. Rome didn't burn, they just turned catholic, and ruled the world through religion. A religion that they created to control the masses.

There never was a jesus, well there was probably hundreds of them (popular name back then). What of the old testament... where the saviour of mankind was a bloke called joseph? Funnily enough he was born of a virgin too, and is the original stencil for the jesus people believe existed, today.

What of set, the egyptian god... born of a virgin, on december 25th... these same patterns have been used time and time again throughout history and in a multitude of different religions. Same M.O. every time.

Yep.
There is no doubt among scholars and historians that there were many messiahs running around. The story of Appolonius (sp?) completely parallels the Jesus story but a few decades earlier. He probably didn't really exist either since there was a lot of allegorical literature being produced at the time. Mark, Matthew, Luke and John weren't writing history - they were writing a gospel - the good news. Of course they didn't write those until decades after Jesus' death.

Jesus definitely scores very high (i think 19/21 or there abouts) on Lord Raglan's Hero scale. I think Jesus scores better than Perseus or Theseus even! And I think Heracles (Hercules) scored a 17 or 18!

But... that aside....
I think the real question is - if God created the universe, then who/what created God. or is it turtles all the way down

 

[iblazethatkush]

I disagree. There are many historical accounts of Jesus. Been watchin too much Zeitgeist? There are many historical accounts of Jesus of Nazareth. Not only in the bible, either. There's no doubt he existed. It's just a question if you think he is the Messiah or not.

 

[skunkushybrid]

Sorry to stick with the jesus thing, but another point is that the only place jesus was mentioned is in the bible. There were a lot of great writers around at that period of time, yet not one of them ever mentions a jesus fella.

Which considering who this jesus was supposed to be you'd figure somebody would write about him, or mention him even... not a sausage. The only book that mentions him is the fictional bible.



Exactly, once you bring a god into it as the only reason for our existence then the question is instantly begged "then who created god?"

unfortunately people we are all alone, if we ever find alien life it'll be a germ...

 

[skunkushybrid]

I disagree. There are many historical accounts of Jesus. Been watchin too much Zeitgeist? There are many historical accounts of Jesus of Nazareth. Not only in the bible, either. There's no doubt he existed. It's just a question if you think he is the Messiah or not.

I don't believe he did exist... where is this evidence you speak of, I'd like to read it.

 

[iblazethatkush]

I don't believe he did exist... where is this evidence you speak of, I'd like to read it.

All around us, my friend. You or somebody else wants to use google to find some. I'm positive you can. I'm not wasting my time to try to prove anything, I'm not trying to convert anybody...I was thinking I would get more Christians in here. Now it's an atheist thread and I the lone Christian has to try to prove God's existence to everyone

 

[email468]

I disagree. There are many historical accounts of Jesus. Been watchin too much Zeitgeist? There are many historical accounts of Jesus of Nazareth. Not only in the bible, either. There's no doubt he existed. It's just a question if you think he is the Messiah or not.

There is most definitely debate over his existence. As far as I know, there is only one non-apocryphal/canonical source (secular) that may confirm a guy named Jesus existed and this scrap of evidence is from Josephus. But it is unclear whether Josephus is referring to THEE Jesus of Nazareth so that proof isn't exactly concrete evidence. There certainly isn't enough evidence to be convincing but I tend to give the benefit of the doubt. Though to say there is no debate among scholars is simply not true.

My sources are biblical scholars/historians: Alan Dundes, Robert Price, Earl Doherty, Dennis MacDonald and John Loftus (to name a few).

I also enjoy Sam Harris' writing along with Richard Carrier.

I know Zeitgeist is a German word (something to do with "spirit" of the age, i think) and i believe it is a smashing pumpkins album. Is it something else as well?

 

[email468]

All around us, my friend. You or somebody else wants to use google to find some. I'm positive you can. I'm not wasting my time to try to prove anything, I'm not trying to convert anybody...I was thinking I would get more Christians in here. Now it's an atheist thread and I the lone Christian has to try to prove God's existence to everyone

I'm really not picking on you. But since you are putting your faith in Jesus and consider yourself a Christian, wouldn't looking for evidence be anything but a waste of time? And wouldn't you want to know if you were/are being deceived by those telling you for certain he existed? If you prefer not to know, that is OK but don't expect everyone to take it on faith. Fair enough?

 

[iblazethatkush]

I'm really not picking on you. But since you are putting your faith in Jesus and consider yourself a Christian, wouldn't looking for evidence be anything but a waste of time? And wouldn't you want to know if you were/are being deceived by those telling you for certain he existed? If you prefer not to know, that is OK but don't expect everyone to take it on faith. Fair enough?

I've done research, my friend. Maybe not as much as I should. But, I learn more everyday. I was just saying I'm not doing research for this thread b/c I'm not doing this thread to try to convert ppl. I do the research for myself, of course. I do research on everything I want to know more about.

 

[email468]

I've done research, my friend. Maybe not as much as I should. But, I learn more everyday. I was just sayig I'm not doing it for this thread b/c my goal is not to try to convert ppl. I do the research for myself, of course. I do research on everything I want to know more about.

then i guess we'll just chalk it up to different kinds of research.

 

[iblazethatkush]

then i guess we'll just chalk it up to different kinds of research.

There's credibile people on both sides of the debate.

 

[VintageGrow]

I'll use something we can all understand to illustrate what i'm talking about: marijuana laws - as long as people continue to think that marijuana is devil weed - it will remain illegal. Most of us understand that marijuana was demonized into being illegal without a shred of evidence. Wouldn't it have been better to study marijuana and come to real conclusions before making arbitrary laws based on lies and myths instead of on proof and evidence? That way the people who want to believe that it is the devil's weed are free to believe so but they have zero influence on making marijuana policy.

Most excellent analogy...

 

[VintageGrow]

There are many historical accounts of Jesus of Nazareth. Not only in the bible, either.

Please name some examples of where I might find historical writings about Jesus other than the Bible. This is a most excellent question and I would presume believers should be able to easily answer this question without Google's assistance. I might even reconsider my non-belief if there were some supporting documentation that was referred to every so often.

And speaking of the Bible, why doesn't anyone question why many Christians read and quote the "King James Version"? A king's version of God's word, and nobody else scratches their head over this one?

 

[LiveHigh]

People debate whether Jesus really existed or not. But I say who cares. Just because Jesus existed doesn't mean anything claimed about him is true. The fact of the matter is; it is absolutely absurd to believe in ANY of the man-made religions. Just because something is old, doesn't make it true. Imagine if 500 years from now people start believing in Harry Potter. Wouldn't you consider that insane?

People seem ready to believe something just because it's old and written in a different style than is used today. Not to say they believed it for the same reasons back then. They believed it back then because they lived in a very cruel and barbaric world, and anything that could provide peace, while staying outside the boundaries of their knowledge, would do. If you lived in the times of Jesus, where the knowledge of the world was VERY VERY limited. Even I might have found myself believing in someone who claimed to have truth.

Honestly, the way I view religious folk now is this: I imagine them holding onto a pull-up bar; hanging. With a firm grip and piles of science books falling from the sky. Smacking them in the head. But still they hold on. It's quite amusing.

If you disprove one thing about the bible. They ignore it. If you disprove many many things about the bible. They still ignore it. If you make the bible look ridiculous (which it is). They start looking for something else that holds more truth. How long will you search before you realize you're a fool?

Sorry for being harsh. I truly love all humanity and understand why they believe what they believe. I just wish things were different and the world would open their eyes And I also like to remember that there was a time when non-believers were punished by death. Isn't that some shit? That's like presenting a math problem on the board and killing the person who gets it right.

 

[magicdude22]

Please name some examples of where I might find historical writings about Jesus other than the Bible. This is a most excellent question and I would presume believers should be able to easily answer this question without Google's assistance. I might even reconsider my non-belief if there were some supporting documentation that was referred to every so often.

And speaking of the Bible, why doesn't anyone question why many Christians read and quote the "King James Version"? A king's version of God's word, and nobody else scratches their head over this one?

there was a man named Jesus who appeared in the census ordered by king Harod, this doesnt make him a savior but thats were my beliefs and faith come in

 

[mountainSpliff]

People debate whether Jesus really existed or not. But I say who cares. Just because Jesus existed doesn't mean anything claimed about him is true. The fact of the matter is; it is absolutely absurd to believe in ANY of the man-made religions. Just because something is old, doesn't make it true. Imagine if 500 years from now people start believing in Harry Potter. Wouldn't you consider that insane?

People seem ready to believe something just because it's old and written in a different style than is used today. Not to say they believed it for the same reasons back then. They believed it back then because they lived in a very cruel and barbaric world, and anything that could provide peace, while staying outside the boundaries of their knowledge, would do. If you lived in the times of Jesus, where the knowledge of the world was VERY VERY limited. Even I might have found myself believing in someone who claimed to have truth.

Honestly, the way I view religious folk now is this: I imagine them holding onto a pull-up bar; hanging. With a firm grip and piles of science books falling from the sky. Smacking them in the head. But still they hold on. It's quite amusing.

If you disprove one thing about the bible. They ignore it. If you disprove many many things about the bible. They still ignore it. If you make the bible look ridiculous (which it is). They start looking for something else that holds more truth. How long will you search before you realize you're a fool?

Sorry for being harsh. I truly love all humanity and understand why they believe what they believe. I just wish things were different and the world would open their eyes And I also like to remember that there was a time when non-believers were punished by death. Isn't that some shit? That's like presenting a math problem on the board and killing the person who gets it right.

WTF!! You trying to tell me that Harry Potter isn't real?

In my experience it's never good to attack someone on a personal level during a debate irrespective of who believes in what.

I don't think you have searched long enough, cuz if you had, you would have realised that you yourself are a fool. If the bible is so ridiculous, why does it bother you so much? Being an atheist you should have a sense of freedom from the lie. Or are you religiously atheist?

 

[skunkushybrid]

And I also like to remember that there was a time when non-believers were punished by death. Isn't that some shit? That's like presenting a math problem on the board and killing the person who gets it right.

Yes, people were literally forced to believe... and when they didn't they were killed.

People are still forced to believe today, it's on the tv and it's in our schools. I for one will not tolerate my children being taught about a god as though it is real. My children will be raised to know the truth, and their eyes shall not be clouded by the bullshit in the world.