LBH's 4 way lst tutorial (w topping sub-tutorial)

LBH

LBH

Well-Known Member
4-way lst- Building the perfect plant for scrogging.

This style of lst is to increase canopy square footage, not so much to make a plant fuller or bushier although that is definitely another side benefit. This style of lst is very good for scrog grows.

This method is not possible without topping and is not for Auto's or clones. Topping and 4-way lst go hand in hand and it really does help if you have a plant of good genetics, but it works on any and all plants.

Put simply, what we are doing is taking a plant that wants to grow straight up as 1 main arm and splitting it so it becomes 4 main arms and then we train them to grow horizontally, symmetrically, in preparation to go under the screen. This ensures a proper scrog where you maximize the footprint of your light to cover a perfect blanket of bud.


first thing you do is start plant





Grow it till it's first set of full leaves are formed (5-leaf in this case).

When the 5th leaf set starts to come up between the 4th set be prepared to begin topping, Let them (5th set) get about 1/4-1/2 inch and then squeeze the base and pluck them, both at once and this is what will be left with.

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


Soon, you'll see the new growth.

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


The 2 new main branches will grow and thicken.

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


Now let it grow out a bit. During this time, I like to keep a fan right on the plant, lots of movement, building that main stem nice and thick and you'll soon have a top view like this.

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


Now, normally, this plant would consist of 1 main with 2 secondaries coming out the sides. By topping it, we create 2 mains and by lst'ing those down, we allow those secondaries to come up and be full blown colas. So the 2 mains you creat from topping, plus the 2 secondaries gives you a "4-way" plant. You can clearly see above, how this plant is now "symmetrical"

For the next step, you'll need 4 "U" shaped spikes. I use clothes hanger wire like the one below ( or anything that will hold down the 4 arms like you see in the pics, remember, get creative, be resourceful, making your grow your own isn't a bad thing)

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


Gently fold down one of the 4 mains and spike it in place. When you do the other 3, make sure there is equal pressure on all 4 so the main stem isn't getting pulled in any 1 direction. You want that center stalk to be straight up and down. The arrows below show where the clothes hangar spikes are.

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


In a day or so, she'll look like this

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


Now it's time to do some topping again. All those nice new sprouts coming out of the middle of each arm......pull 'em! Everything DOUBLES again!! (below)

I am leaving the rest of this tutorial up so people can see what you get if you keep topping. I personally stop here. One thing we need to understand is that when you "top", you are "dividing" that main cola into 2 cola's. They will not be of the same size the original one would have been but that's ok, the 2 will weigh more than the 1 because of the increased surface area available to the light. (explained better in the scrog tutorial) But for scrogging purposes and the size of my screens, this is the point where we stop topping and give them a good week before switching to 12/12. From there, we continue on with the Scrog tutorial

Additional topping CAN be of benefit to the few out there who are EXTREMELY limited height wise, but be warned, each time you top, you divide again so each time, you decrease the size of the buds. Other than that, this is where the tutorial now ends. Get them under the screens and stay tuned for our “Scrogging Method” thread that is being built shortly. We are building a cumulative thread with advice fro m a few of the guru’s. Once I have it all compiled, I’ll launch it and it will be the new standard for those looking to scrog properly. Believe it or not but the majority of the screens out there now, are not scrogs, they are skeletal systems for standard plants. What we do is highly different and very specific with an amazing result. Stay tuned

Here is how the plant develops if you continue to top past this point
This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


Now, I let it grow for a bit. Keep topping now about every 3rd set on the new stuff. Let her start to grow vertically a bit. When she has a little height, lst again!! I should have used the 6 or 9 gallon feed bucket for this plant. It's shallower but wide. With this plant, I used the rim and the soil to anchor her down for the 2nd round of lst. Here are some shots showing her vertical growth and a few close ups to show how I used the rim and soil to spike her. This time around, there should be 12-16 branches to fold down (remember, you've been dividing and dividing and dividing )

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.

And here is what she'll look like when she's all bent down

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


And here she is a a few hours later, all recovered.

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


Now below is an illustration of how the growth changes exponentially with each topping and lst treatment. The 2 combined build a plant that is low in height and full.

Before the 2nd lst, 18-19 bud sites


This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


and AFTER the 2nd lst, 29-31 bud sites

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


I hope this helps and if you have any questions, feel free to fire away.

THE END
 
Shwagbag

Shwagbag

Well-Known Member
Very nice, almost exactly like my method except I use paper clips to pin them down and I drill holes in the side of the bucket and tie down with pipe cleaners. Great minds think alike! Nice plants and awesome method.
 
fatalack

fatalack

Well-Known Member
Damm thats nice dude :!: I LST but I don't think I have enough room to flower all my plants like that. I would to down size and try it like this though .:!::!:
 
0calli

0calli

Well-Known Member
lbh said:
4-way lst- building the perfect plant for scrogging.

This style of lst is to increase canopy square footage, not so much to make a plant fuller or bushier although that is definitely another side benefit. This style of lst is very good for scrog grows.

This method is not possible without topping and is not for auto's or clones. Topping and 4-way lst go hand in hand and it really does help if you have a plant of good genetics, but it works on any and all plants.

Put simply, what we are doing is taking a plant that wants to grow straight up as 1 main arm and splitting it so it becomes 4 main arms and then we train them to grow horizontally, symmetrically, in preparation to go under the screen. This ensures a proper scrog where you maximize the footprint of your light to cover a perfect blanket of bud.


first thing you do is start plant





grow it till it's first set of full leaves are formed (5-leaf in this case).

When the 5th leaf set starts to come up between the 4th set be prepared to begin topping, let them (5th set) get about 1/4-1/2 inch and then squeeze the base and pluck them, both at once and this is what will be left with.

this image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


soon, you'll see the new growth.

this image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


the 2 new main branches will grow and thicken.

this image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.

this image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


now let it grow out a bit. During this time, i like to keep a fan right on the plant, lots of movement, building that main stem nice and thick and you'll soon have a top view like this.

this image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


now, normally, this plant would consist of 1 main with 2 secondaries coming out the sides. By topping it, we create 2 mains and by lst'ing those down, we allow those secondaries to come up and be full blown colas. So the 2 mains you creat from topping, plus the 2 secondaries gives you a "4-way" plant. You can clearly see above, how this plant is now "symmetrical"

for the next step, you'll need 4 "u" shaped spikes. I use clothes hanger wire like the one below ( or anything that will hold down the 4 arms like you see in the pics, remember, get creative, be resourceful, making your grow your own isn't a bad thing)

this image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


gently fold down one of the 4 mains and spike it in place. When you do the other 3, make sure there is equal pressure on all 4 so the main stem isn't getting pulled in any 1 direction. You want that center stalk to be straight up and down. The arrows below show where the clothes hangar spikes are.

this image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


in a day or so, she'll look like this

this image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


now it's time to do some topping again. All those nice new sprouts coming out of the middle of each arm......pull 'em! Everything doubles again!! (below)

i am leaving the rest of this tutorial up so people can see what you get if you keep topping. I personally stop here. One thing we need to understand is that when you "top", you are "dividing" that main cola into 2 cola's. They will not be of the same size the original one would have been but that's ok, the 2 will weigh more than the 1 because of the increased surface area available to the light. (explained better in the scrog tutorial) but for scrogging purposes and the size of my screens, this is the point where we stop topping and give them a good week before switching to 12/12. From there, we continue on with the scrog tutorial

additional topping can be of benefit to the few out there who are extremely limited height wise, but be warned, each time you top, you divide again so each time, you decrease the size of the buds. Other than that, this is where the tutorial now ends. Get them under the screens and stay tuned for our “scrogging method” thread that is being built shortly. We are building a cumulative thread with advice fro m a few of the guru’s. Once i have it all compiled, i’ll launch it and it will be the new standard for those looking to scrog properly. Believe it or not but the majority of the screens out there now, are not scrogs, they are skeletal systems for standard plants. What we do is highly different and very specific with an amazing result. Stay tuned

here is how the plant develops if you continue to top past this point
this image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


now, i let it grow for a bit. Keep topping now about every 3rd set on the new stuff. Let her start to grow vertically a bit. When she has a little height, lst again!! I should have used the 6 or 9 gallon feed bucket for this plant. It's shallower but wide. With this plant, i used the rim and the soil to anchor her down for the 2nd round of lst. Here are some shots showing her vertical growth and a few close ups to show how i used the rim and soil to spike her. This time around, there should be 12-16 branches to fold down (remember, you've been dividing and dividing and dividing )

this image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


this image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.

this image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.

and here is what she'll look like when she's all bent down

this image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


and here she is a a few hours later, all recovered.

this image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


now below is an illustration of how the growth changes exponentially with each topping and lst treatment. The 2 combined build a plant that is low in height and full.

Before the 2nd lst, 18-19 bud sites


this image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


and after the 2nd lst, 29-31 bud sites

this image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 600x450.


i hope this helps and if you have any questions, feel free to fire away.

The end
Click to expand...
man the second and third picture there wow some stretchy !!!!!! Lol
 
bamfrivet

bamfrivet

Well-Known Member
Great tutorial and explanations. The pictures really help people understand what to do instead of trying to imagine it or staring at their plants then at the computer screen then back to their plants, ect ect.

The only thing I disagree with is the idea that topping gives you and new main branches. Those are branches that would have grown there anyway. All topping does is make it so that instead of the plant directing most of it's nutrients up to the main cola, it redirects all those nutrients to all the bud sites that would normally not get much. This makes the new bud sites grow bigger and look like main cola's but they really aren't.
 
LBH

LBH

Well-Known Member
bamfrivet said:
Great tutorial and explanations. The pictures really help people understand what to do instead of trying to imagine it or staring at their plants then at the computer screen then back to their plants, ect ect.

The only thing I disagree with is the idea that topping gives you and new main branches. Those are branches that would have grown there anyway. All topping does is make it so that instead of the plant directing most of it's nutrients up to the main cola, it redirects all those nutrients to all the bud sites that would normally not get much. This makes the new bud sites grow bigger and look like main cola's but they really aren't.
Click to expand...

Are you saying topping does not split the plant in 1/2 but that will happen if you leave it alone? I've never seen that happen naturally

This is about setting a plant up for a scrog. We aren't topping to increase yield, that comes later when the technique delivers a carpet of bud. The topping we are doing here is strictly to spread the plant out horizontally and to do that, you need to split that man stalk into 2. That's why we are topping here.

Horizontal screens yield more (See woodsmanstokers united scroggers thread, some great reading regarding gravitropism, phototropism, etc)
 
Shwagbag

Shwagbag

Well-Known Member
bamfrivet said:
Great tutorial and explanations. The pictures really help people understand what to do instead of trying to imagine it or staring at their plants then at the computer screen then back to their plants, ect ect.

The only thing I disagree with is the idea that topping gives you and new main branches. Those are branches that would have grown there anyway. All topping does is make it so that instead of the plant directing most of it's nutrients up to the main cola, it redirects all those nutrients to all the bud sites that would normally not get much. This makes the new bud sites grow bigger and look like main cola's but they really aren't.
Click to expand...
When done with timely and aggressively, topping can give you more than 2 main branches. What you're saying is right to a degree, topping will promote bud sites and bud growth on areas of a single branch that is manipulated. If your plant is mature and you top a branch, it will not have the same effect as when the plant is in its adolescence. You're missing what LBH is showing you for canopy management.

Lifeisaaaxtwo said:
SO which way yields more? Vertical or horizontal?
Click to expand...
When using artificial lighting indoors I prefer horizontal for more efficient canopy penetration. Artificial lighting only penetrates a short distance under the plant canopy. Keeping the plant canopy consistent has proven to be the best success for me in my 4 x 4 box with my little 600. I have a feeling that LBH would agree lol.



LBH, I hope you don't mind me commenting here.
 
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