It's Class Warfare Alright.

Luger187

Well-Known Member
Sigh. Sadly....he represents millions of other mindless asssholes who think the same way.

ONE good thing about RICH folks is....thank god, they generally "donate" millions to good cause FOR the "Tax break". Well....who cares? Long as some of thier excess amounts to MILLIONS and GETS to this or the other charilty.....it's the same ultimate resut as actually pauying their fair share of taxzes. (The SOBs) and their money getting to the poor in some other way.

Let's take Oprah for example. Besides just GIVING away millions of her own bucks every year, she also gets a "tax break" for her donations. Which, in turn, makes MORE of her money available for MORE donations.


Sadly......ALL Uber Rich aint as Humanitarian as Oprah. But IF they were? Hey man....screw taxing the rich more! Im fine with them just GIVING their excess dough to worthy causes.

The beauty part of the Ultra Rich choosing who to give their money to is, they get to choose which cause they want to enrich.

If it wwre me (suppose I wone a 200 million dollar lottery), Id choose to GIVE 150 million of it to Animal Rescue agencies. That would be MY choice. Some other uber rich guy might choose to give it to starving kids in Adrica. The choice is pretty much irrelevant----long as the Uber Rich GIVE substantial funding to some worthy cause.....who cares IF they are taxed or not?

IF they pay bigger taxes, their money will go to whatever the Gov thinks is most important. Suppose Im a multi billionaire and dont WANT to fund the war in Afghanistan? Suppose I WANT to help the goddam whales but dont believe in War?

Hey man....Im all for the rich giving back.....but Im willing to let them choose WHICH needy group gets their donations.


Of course....any rich Mofo who does NOT choose to give?

Cut his fucking head off and feed his body to the Poor.


CW
i totally agree with this. however, i believe humans are naturally greedy and only really want whats best for themselves(in the end, making a donation makes you feel good). couldnt the rich just as easily 'donate' money to projects and things that only benefit them? what happens if the rich no longer WANT to help the poor?
this is why i think taxing is a better system than not taxing and having everything bought with donations. sure, theres corruption in the system. theres a lot of shit that we dont need. but that just comes from the people we elect. it is essentially our fault lol. if us citizens were smart enough to figure it out, we would elect the people that really WANT to help the people, and not the ones looking out for personal or business interests. the only way i see us doing that is by getting money out of politics and setting term limits on congressman. this way, we only(mostly?) get people who want to help the communities and the country.
 

undertheice

Well-Known Member
why do people think that if there were no taxes, that people would willingly pitch in money towards what society needs? people would never do that! if you don't have to pay, why would you?
what is it society needs from its government? do we need an extensive welfare system, spurred on by the entitlement mentality that it fosters? do we need more than the most basic regulation of the private sector? do we need mandates that interfere with the rights of the individual any more than is necessary to ensure the safety of other individuals? do we need to stand as policeman to the world, catering to foreign interests and forcing the globalist ideals of various international organizations down the throats of every other nation on earth? do we need the massive bureaucracy required to manage all of these little (not so little, really) extra bits of control that have been tacked on the the duties of the state? this is what every increase in taxes goes to fund.

if you answered "yes" to any of the above questions, then you are a statist pawn. please don't think you're doing the world a favor by helping to create another nanny-state. we've watched too many of those implode under the weight of their own corruption. please don't think that the massive bureaucracy you're abetting is somehow any better than the other corporate structures you so despise. the state is comprised of the same fallible humans that sometimes attempt to exert undue influence over your life from the private sector. that you would allow those with the violent force of government at their disposal to usurp the powers of the private sector is an abomination and a blow against the very ideals of liberty you claim to want to spread. please don't assume that, just because the rest of us don't want to see the state act as middle-man to every gesture of human kindness, we are any less generous than you purport yourself to be.

the simple fact is that an untaxed society, one without the need for any form of centralized control, is only a goal. anyone who claims we need no taxes to fund the necessary evil of government is blowing smoke. what we don't need is the ever increasing yoke of government restriction that increased taxation provides. where we should be constantly searching for ways to allow the people themselves to conduct their own business in their own way, we are instead creating an ever more restrictive environment and making it harder for the individual to diverge from the acceptable, mediocre herd. we are embracing the orwellian and denying that humanity has the capacity to be any better than mindless sheep. we are rewarding the envy of success by allowing our baser instincts to shape our legislation and bring down those who have excelled. we are demanding that those things which we, as independent citizens, should be capable of taking care of be swallowed up by the juggernaut of the state and that we all be forced to pay for the privilege of that loss of power.
 

Charlie Who?

Active Member
yeah, b/c all of our products say "Made in Switzerland"...

lol...

companies are leaving to 3rd world shitholes where dictatorial regimes with HUGE guns keep people working like slaves...... anybody know 'China'

FAIL
Amen. Yer right.

BUT....this is the direct result of Capitalism without Humanitarianism. To go for the "bottom line" in the Profit coumn without considering the effect on Humanity IS the goddam essential fault of American Capitalism.

It sounds small, but it isnt. Capitalism is based upon an "I'll get MINE and you get YOURS.....and if you fail, FUCK YOU" kinda philosopy. The Family of Man CANNOT exist on that platform.

"Am I my Brother's keeper?"

DAMN RIGHT YOU ARE.

Here's why: We are ALL products of not what we do, but where, when and how we are born. Is there any essential difference betyween the White American Male born to Rich Parents in America.....from the poor Black kid born in Uganda with nine siblings?


LOL! NO, man. LUCK is the only difference.. When we see videos of kids with their hands out, hopng for a coin....we need to remember, "There but for Fortune go I."

We aint fat and comfortable becaue we inherently "deserve" it. It was the Lick of the Draw.

CW
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
what is it society needs from its government? do we need an extensive welfare system, spurred on by the entitlement mentality that it fosters? do we need more than the most basic regulation of the private sector? do we need mandates that interfere with the rights of the individual any more than is necessary to ensure the safety of other individuals? do we need to stand as policeman to the world, catering to foreign interests and forcing the globalist ideals of various international organizations down the throats of every other nation on earth? do we need the massive bureaucracy required to manage all of these little (not so little, really) extra bits of control that have been tacked on the the duties of the state? this is what every increase in taxes goes to fund.

if you answered "yes" to any of the above questions, then you are a statist pawn. please don't think you're doing the world a favor by helping to create another nanny-state. we've watched too many of those implode under the weight of their own corruption. please don't think that the massive bureaucracy you're abetting is somehow any better than the other corporate structures you so despise. the state is comprised of the same fallible humans that sometimes attempt to exert undue influence over your life from the private sector. that you would allow those with the violent force of government at their disposal to usurp the powers of the private sector is an abomination and a blow against the very ideals of liberty you claim to want to spread. please don't assume that, just because the rest of us don't want to see the state act as middle-man to every gesture of human kindness, we are any less generous than you purport yourself to be.

the simple fact is that an untaxed society, one without the need for any form of centralized control, is only a goal. anyone who claims we need no taxes to fund the necessary evil of government is blowing smoke. what we don't need is the ever increasing yoke of government restriction that increased taxation provides. where we should be constantly searching for ways to allow the people themselves to conduct their own business in their own way, we are instead creating an ever more restrictive environment and making it harder for the individual to diverge from the acceptable, mediocre herd. we are embracing the orwellian and denying that humanity has the capacity to be any better than mindless sheep. we are rewarding the envy of success by allowing our baser instincts to shape our legislation and bring down those who have excelled. we are demanding that those things which we, as independent citizens, should be capable of taking care of be swallowed up by the juggernaut of the state and that we all be forced to pay for the privilege of that loss of power.
another textbook rant that completely ignores the reality of what it fosters.

like i said before, we have a government that was willing to create a better way of life for everybody.

like it or not, welfare programs create much needed demand.

there's no other way around it. if there's people that want to confine themselves to the misery of welfare (make no mistake, it is miserable life, just not to the EXTREME we see misery in areas of the world where families drink water out of the sewer, build houses out of cardboard, and send their kids to the landfill to scavenge for food) then that's better than the previously mentioned alternative.

you can try to argue otherwise, but you can't. all you can do is keep spewing textbook nonsense while ignoring the real world effects.....
 

Luger187

Well-Known Member
what is it society needs from its government? do we need an extensive welfare system, spurred on by the entitlement mentality that it fosters? do we need more than the most basic regulation of the private sector? do we need mandates that interfere with the rights of the individual any more than is necessary to ensure the safety of other individuals? do we need to stand as policeman to the world, catering to foreign interests and forcing the globalist ideals of various international organizations down the throats of every other nation on earth? do we need the massive bureaucracy required to manage all of these little (not so little, really) extra bits of control that have been tacked on the the duties of the state? this is what every increase in taxes goes to fund.

if you answered "yes" to any of the above questions, then you are a statist pawn. please don't think you're doing the world a favor by helping to create another nanny-state. we've watched too many of those implode under the weight of their own corruption. please don't think that the massive bureaucracy you're abetting is somehow any better than the other corporate structures you so despise. the state is comprised of the same fallible humans that sometimes attempt to exert undue influence over your life from the private sector. that you would allow those with the violent force of government at their disposal to usurp the powers of the private sector is an abomination and a blow against the very ideals of liberty you claim to want to spread. please don't assume that, just because the rest of us don't want to see the state act as middle-man to every gesture of human kindness, we are any less generous than you purport yourself to be.

the simple fact is that an untaxed society, one without the need for any form of centralized control, is only a goal. anyone who claims we need no taxes to fund the necessary evil of government is blowing smoke. what we don't need is the ever increasing yoke of government restriction that increased taxation provides. where we should be constantly searching for ways to allow the people themselves to conduct their own business in their own way, we are instead creating an ever more restrictive environment and making it harder for the individual to diverge from the acceptable, mediocre herd. we are embracing the orwellian and denying that humanity has the capacity to be any better than mindless sheep. we are rewarding the envy of success by allowing our baser instincts to shape our legislation and bring down those who have excelled. we are demanding that those things which we, as independent citizens, should be capable of taking care of be swallowed up by the juggernaut of the state and that we all be forced to pay for the privilege of that loss of power.
yes, i do think we need some of those programs. helping people in need is VERY important in a society. yes, it can be done too much(it is right now in a lot of ways), but i think its necessary. i think we do need regulation on private companies because they are ONLY out for their own interest, and will lie, cheat, steal, kill people, and use their money to gain more money. its all about the money in private business, and sometimes there needs to be a referee to stop them from tearing eachothers heads off.

im not saying there isnt unnecessary spending our government does. theres a TON of it. BUT we need SOME control over the chaos. in order to do this, we are supposed to vote for citizens that represent us into our government. the vast majority of the time nowadays, big money gets into the campaigns, and we end up having the choice of two assholes that only pretend to represent us. we need to step away from the idea of career politicians IMO. it may not fix the problem, but it sure as hell would help.

i think if US citizens actually paid attention to whats going on and who these politicians really are, they would realize theyre all crooks that need to be replaced. but you cant replace them with a quality person without taking big money out of the equation.

the difference between us is that you see the government as a crushing force that hinders progress. i see it as something that CAN do that(and does in many ways), but it also is necessary for a stable society. the problem right now is it has become unstable because of politics.

edit: i would like to add that i am totally 100% against our military policy. i thinks its fucking disgusting that america of all countries would stoop that low. taking over the world with our military machine, forcing others to follow what we say. military should only be for protection against threats. a few hundred uneducated tribesman isnt much of a threat IMO
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
now look at the latest development in the GOP's fight against the middle class:

THEY ARE PROPOSING ENDING A PAYROLL TAX HOLIDAY CHAMPIONED BY BARACK OBAMA.

that's right folks, these idiots want Obama to fail soo bad so they can keep up their defense of those who least need defending, that they WANT TO INCREASE TAXES.

it's like this: when the bush tax cuts were going to expire they shouted at the top of their lungs that it amounted to tax increases which would decimate the economy. thing is, Obama wanted to extend the bush tax cuts for the middle class, and only let expire those that apply for the most rich of americans. THEY WERE STANDING UP FOR LESS THAN 10% OF THE POPULATION!!!

now, in a very deceitful about-face, they are saying that the payroll tax holiday is somehow unsustainable, KNOWING GOOD AND HELL WELL THAT PAYROLL TAXES ARE PAID BY THE BOTTOM 40% OF AMERICANS B/C IT IS DEDUCTED FROM THEIR PAYCHECKS.

so we can see this is nothing more than an assault on the lower and middle classes.

THEY FIGHT TOOTH AND NAIL TO KEEP TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH. now they are proposing letting TAX CUTS for everybody else expire.

HIPOCRISY OR JUST FLAT OUT CLASS WARFARE??? it's an assault on the people in this country who've made these fools super-rich and the spin doctors up top will have their way if nobody points out the BULLSHIT!!!

GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block

By CHARLES BABINGTON - Associated Press | AP – 5 hrs ago






Related Content






WASHINGTON (AP) — News flash: Congressional Republicans want to raise your taxes.Impossible, right? GOP lawmakers are so virulently anti-tax, surely they will fight to prevent a payroll tax increase on virtually every wage-earner starting Jan. 1, right?
Apparently not.
Many of the same Republicans who fought hammer-and-tong to keep the George W. Bush-era income tax cuts from expiring on schedule are now saying a different "temporary" tax cut should end as planned. By their own definition, that amounts to a tax increase.
The tax break extension they oppose is sought by President Barack Obama. Unlike proposed changes in the income tax, this policy helps the 46 percent of all Americans who owe no federal income taxes but who pay a "payroll tax" on practically every dime they earn.
There are other differences as well, and Republicans say their stand is consistent with their goal of long-term tax policies that will spur employment and lend greater certainty to the economy.
"It's always a net positive to let taxpayers keep more of what they earn," says Rep. Jeb Hensarling, "but not all tax relief is created equal for the purposes of helping to get the economy moving again." The Texas lawmaker is on the House GOP leadership team.
The debate is likely to boil up in coming weeks as a special bipartisan committee seeks big deficit reductions and weighs which tax cuts are sacrosanct.
At issue is a tax that the vast majority of workers pay, but many don't recognize because they don't read, or don't understand their pay stubs. Workers normally pay 6.2 percent of their wages toward a tax designated for Social Security. Their employer pays an equal amount, for a total of 12.4 percent per worker.
As part of a bipartisan spending deal last December, Congress approved Obama's request to reduce the workers' share to 4.2 percent for one year; employers' rate did not change. Obama wants Congress to extend the reduction for an additional year. If not, the rate will return to 6.2 percent on Jan. 1.
Obama cited the payroll tax in his weekend radio and Internet address Saturday, when he urged Congress to work together on measures that help the economy and create jobs. "There are things we can do right now that will mean more customers for businesses and more jobs across the country. We can cut payroll taxes again, so families have an extra $1,000 to spend," he said.
Social Security payroll taxes apply only to the first $106,800 of a worker's wages. Therefore, $2,136 is the biggest benefit anyone can gain from the one-year reduction.
The great majority of Americans make less than $106,800 a year. Millions of workers pay more in payroll taxes than in federal income taxes.
The 12-month tax reduction will cost the government about $120 billion this year, and a similar amount next year if it's renewed.
That worries Rep. David Camp, R-Mich., chairman of the tax-writing Ways and Means Committee, and a member of the House-Senate supercommittee tasked with finding new deficit cuts. Tax reductions, "no matter how well-intended," will push the deficit higher, making the panel's task that much harder, Camp's office said.
But Republican lawmakers haven't always worried about tax cuts increasing the deficit. They led the fight to extend the life of a much bigger tax break: the major 2001 income tax reduction enacted under Bush. It was scheduled to expire at the start of this year. Obama campaigned on a pledge to end the tax break only for the richest Americans, but solid GOP opposition forced him to back down.
Many Republicans are adamant about not raising taxes but largely silent on what it would mean to let the payroll tax break expire.
Republicans cite key differences between the two "temporary" taxes, starting with the fact that the Bush measure had a 10-year life from the start. To stimulate job growth, these lawmakers say, it's better to reduce income tax rates for people and for companies than to extend the payroll tax break.
"We don't need short-term gestures. We need long-term fundamental changes in our tax structure and our regulatory structure that people who create jobs can rely on," said Sen. Lamar Alexander, R-Tenn., when asked about the payroll tax matter.
House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, R-Va., "has never believed that this type of temporary tax relief is the best way to grow the economy," said spokesman Brad Dayspring.
The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office says payroll tax reductions give the economy a short-term boost. But it says the benefit is bigger if employers get the tax break instead of, or along with, workers.
Some top Republicans have taken a wait-and-see approach, expecting the payroll tax issue to be a bargaining chip in the upcoming debt reduction talks.
Neither House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, nor Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., has taken a firm stand on whether to extend the one-year tax cut.
Most GOP presidential candidates also are treading lightly.
Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney did not flatly rule out an extra year for the payroll tax cut, but he "would prefer to see the payroll tax cut on the employer side" to spur job growth, his campaign said.
Former House speaker Newt Gingrich said Republicans will fall under increasing pressure to extend the payroll tax cut. If they refuse, he said in a recent speech, "we're going to end up in a position where we're going to raise taxes on the lowest-income Americans the day they go to work."
Many Democrats also are ambivalent about Obama's proposed tax cut extension. They are more focused on protecting social programs from deep spending cuts. Some worry that a multiyear reduction in the tax designated for Social Security could undermine that program's health and stature.
For decades the payroll tax generated more revenue than the Social Security paid out in benefits. The excess was used to fund other government operations. Last year, however, Social Security benefits began outstripping revenue from its designated sources, forcing the program to start tapping its "trust fund" of government obligations.

http://news.yahoo.com/gop-may-ok-tax-increase-obama-hopes-block-124016578.html


guess no conservatives are outraged....
 

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
"Am I my Brother's keeper?"

DAMN RIGHT YOU ARE.

Here's why: We are ALL products of not what we do, but where, when and how we are born. Is there any essential difference betyween the White American Male born to Rich Parents in America.....from the poor Black kid born in Uganda with nine siblings?


LOL! NO, man. LUCK is the only difference.. When we see videos of kids with their hands out, hopng for a coin....we need to remember, "There but for Fortune go I."

We aint fat and comfortable becaue we inherently "deserve" it. It was the Lick of the Draw.

CW
Yeah, FUCK THAT.

I am most certainly NOT my brother's keeper. I have no more responsibility to help some lazy bastard living off the government in some shithole in Wyoming than I have to support some other stranger living in a shanty in Brazil. I many CHOOSE to help someone out, purely out of the kindness of my heart, but that's as far as my responsibility goes.

The moment I reject (and I do) your attempted guilt trip and/or religious/moral obligation to help out my fellow man, you have no where else to go with your argument. You can call me selfish (don't care), you can say society will break down (bullshit) and people will die (everyone does), but in the end you have nothing but your own Robin Hood Complex to try to justify why those with MUST help those without. It may seem mandatory to you, but I don't share your views or perceived obligation to help out ANYONE that I don't choose to help.

There is no rule of nature to support your assumption and I certainly never signed any fucking contract saying I was obligated to donate to the less fortunate, through taxes or otherwise. My responsibility begins and ends with my family, past that it's charity. You are forcing YOUR beliefs on others who don't share your bullshit views, it's no different than the religious zealots forcing their views on society through legislation. It's nothing more than jackbooted thugs taking what isn't theirs through taxation and using it for someone else's agenda.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Oh no, jackbooted thugs!

You benefit so greatly from the society established before you, yet when the bell tolls and your contribution comes due, you play the victim and claim persecution.

Which is what makes people like muyloco a bunch of whiney, petulant crybaby bitches. I am pretty sure the greatest generation would kill themselves if they were able to see what a bunch of irritated cunts they fought for.

Fucking crybaby.
 

dukeanthony

New Member
Oh no, jackbooted thugs!

You benefit so greatly from the society established before you, yet when the bell tolls and your contribution comes due, you play the victim and claim persecution.

Which is what makes people like muyloco a bunch of whiney, petulant crybaby bitches. I am pretty sure the greatest generation would kill themselves if they were able to see what a bunch of irritated cunts they fought for.

Fucking crybaby.
Pleasure meeting you Uncle Buck. muyloc or someone said I am a bigger asshole than you and that you are funnier. I see their point. You are funnier
 

bedspirit

Active Member
Well I'm sure the odumbass way will be the best way. Stimlus 300 billion dollars to give the unions their money back and to work on infurstrucure @ $250,000 per job. Same with giving illegals a way to citizenship, free HC, free edcuation, free,free,free. Also there are less millioners than in 2008 Break out your wallet and pay for a wasteful government that wants to see the country FAIL if you feel froggy. As of yet I have not heard 1 rep say raise taxes on any body. Maybe I should start watching some of the fuckup lying shows you watch.
There are less millionaires now than there were in 2008? How do you figure that? Do you mean because so many of the millionaires have become billionaires or what? Here is a recent article from the Wall Street Journal that shows that there are a record number of millionaires in the United States right now: http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2011/06/22/u-s-has-record-number-of-millionaires/
I can understand the frustration one might have with the welfare system, but you need to recognize that we have a welfare system for the rich that costs us far more than food stamps and unemployment. The majority of the stimulus didn't go to the Unions, it went to the banks. Obviously the bailouts went to the banks. The biggest handout to the wealthy has occurred under your nose since 2008. A recent audit of the FED shows that they've given out 16 trillion since 2008. That's more than our debt. That money didn't go to ordinary people, it went to the biggest corporations and wealthiest people in the country. It affects you because most of that money was printed so your dollars are worth less now.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Muyloco reminds me of that selfish asshole who comes flying up the shoulder and cuts off all the drivers who patiently merged. He didnt create thetraffic, why should he be punished for it?

This great country would not be great if the people who came before took the same petulant and self centered approach he does.

What a cunt.
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
so what about it?? suddenly we're faced with deafening silence when faced with the truth.

since money became free speech, republicans are looking out for the interests of big money while parroting talking points the under-educated masses believe.

people, we're on the verge of going back to the mediocrity of the 1800s....
 

bedspirit

Active Member
Those numbers are misleading... The rich pay a higher percentage of income if it is earned (pay earned from a salary, hourly, etc... earned by performing a job) The 15% number you have been told is the tax rate on capital gains, which you would pay the same tax rate on if you have non-retirement investments. The money that is used to earn investment income has been taxed already at the higher rates.
You're like the anti-Robin Hood. It's great that those poor defenseless billionaires have someone like you who are willing stand up to all of us welfare kings and queens. You correctly point out that it is the capital gains tax rate that makes it seem that the rich pay much less of a percentage than the working middle class. If you look at their income tax from their salaries then it is much higher since we do still have a progressive income tax in this country. My question to you is this: Do millionaires and billionaires make most of their money from an hourly wage or from capital gains? As for your theory that capital gains are taxed once from the initial investment, this would only be true if the investor took money he earned and invested it. This is seldom the case. CEO s and execs are usually compensated with stock options which allows them to avoid income tax. In other words, it wasn't double taxed. I suppose you could still argue that eventually they'll end up paying 15% for some of the stocks when they cash out, but there are a variety of tax loopholes they can exploit to avoid even paying that much. There are massive books on the subject which you can take a look at if you happen to have a bunch of money tied up in investments and you're looking to cash out without paying a dime. Unfortunately for us leeches, who make our money the traditional way, there are no loopholes we can exploit.

Your issue is that you're not looking at the distribution of wealth from the top. You're looking at the small business class which, assuming they're not screwing the system too, is probably paying a lot in taxes. Personally, I don't see the need to raise taxes at all. We could just close all the loopholes. We have the second highest corporate income tax rate in the world but the second lowest collection rate of all industrialized countries. We are literally punish those who play by the rules and reward those who have learned to beat to the system.
 

Balzac89

Undercover Mod
At least we can agree on one thing

[video=youtube;WiX7GTelTPM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiX7GTelTPM[/video]
 

undertheice

Well-Known Member
.....welfare programs create much needed demand.
there, you've said it yourself. the programs themselves help to create the demand. while no one expects the world to go on spinning without some form of assistance for those in need and it is proper that government have some hand in those programs, the lengths we have gone to in order to try and even out the accumulation of wealth have become counterproductive. we introduced semi-skilled laborers into the middle-class, the predictable result was an inflation of prices on nearly ever product to pay for those lifestyles and a culture of unsustainable credit. we provide a dependent poorer class with the means to luxury items, the predictable result is an entitlement mentality that is never satisfied. we allow the state to redistribute wealth according to its view of fairness and need, the predictable result is a grasping, overreaching bureaucracy and the interference in the basic rights of the few based solely on their success.

the fantasy here is that it is government's job to create a better life for anyone or that it is even capable of doing so. it is the people's job to create that better life for themselves. government creates nothing, it only moves the pieces around the board, taking from one and giving to another. the real world effects of the welfare state are the indolence and dependence that are all around us. we see them in the envy of those who, seeing that someone else can afford three televisions to their one, demand an increase in handouts so that they may enjoy even more unearned luxuries. we see them in the perversion of what we consider luxury, as opposed to necessity. necessity is survival, all else is luxury to be earned.

morally, i am my brother's keeper. i go to great pains to make the series of trials that is this life a bit easier for those i come into contact with and even for some that i will never meet, but it is unethical for me to demand the same of my neighbor. this is what you demand and you demand it without offering to give more than those you make the demand of. this is hypocrisy. it's so easy to be generous with someone else's money.
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
there, you've said it yourself. the programs themselves help to create the demand. while no one expects the world to go on spinning without some form of assistance for those in need and it is proper that government have some hand in those programs, the lengths we have gone to in order to try and even out the accumulation of wealth have become counterproductive. we introduced semi-skilled laborers into the middle-class, the predictable result was an inflation of prices on nearly ever product to pay for those lifestyles and a culture of unsustainable credit. we provide a dependent poorer class with the means to luxury items, the predictable result is an entitlement mentality that is never satisfied. we allow the state to redistribute wealth according to its view of fairness and need, the predictable result is a grasping, overreaching bureaucracy and the interference in the basic rights of the few based solely on their success.

the fantasy here is that it is government's job to create a better life for anyone or that it is even capable of doing so. it is the people's job to create that better life for themselves. government creates nothing, it only moves the pieces around the board, taking from one and giving to another. the real world effects of the welfare state are the indolence and dependence that are all around us. we see them in the envy of those who, seeing that someone else can afford three televisions to their one, demand an increase in handouts so that they may enjoy even more unearned luxuries. we see them in the perversion of what we consider luxury, as opposed to necessity. necessity is survival, all else is luxury to be earned.

morally, i am my brother's keeper. i go to great pains to make the series of trials that is this life a bit easier for those i come into contact with and even for some that i will never meet, but it is unethical for me to demand the same of my neighbor. this is what you demand and you demand it without offering to give more than those you make the demand of. this is hypocrisy. it's so easy to be generous with someone else's money.
welfare assistance programs helps the POOR. what luxuries?? microwave ovens, stoves, and air conditioners??

truth is being poor is shit. PERIOD. there's the few conformists out there that can just be poor their whole life, but that's not a truth that every poor person lives.

you keep regurgitating this bullshit and it does nothing to debunk the idea that because of progressive welfare programs, quality of life in the US is better than it is elsewhere.

because of these programs we have the biggest economy in the world.

prove me wrong.

YOU CAN't.
 
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