Heard an Interesting POV...

Gastanker

Gastanker

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
Here it is. The argument always gets to this. "capitalism is mostly self regulating because the corporations want to preserve their "assets", therefore they don't need government interference". And then I point out a reality whereby the commenter states "well.... government takes care of those problems with regulations". So which is it? can forestry monitor itself in its own best interests or does it take government regulation for it to do so?
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Most logging companies have halted these practices because they are not profitable - not for environmental or local legal reasons. If you read my long post above you'll see that although they are environmentally friendly, most all of their decisions serve their best interest.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
AT&T is still around, you meant to say Bell telephone. Regardless i remember their service, superior to todays. They leased me a phone, if i broke it or it quit working they replaced it at no charge, they had operators who would look up anything you wanted for free, service calls were free. Customer service was fantastic and they actually knew a thing or two. Good 'ole Ma Bell, I wish we still had that monopoly around, it was fucking great.
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remember what you paid for long distance? I do.
 
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NoDrama

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
But given enough short term financial gain from abusing your wife, one might just consider it, mightn't one? Say a couple of million that you could lay your hands on if she were dead? No, the profit motive as we so clearly see, trumps everything else eventually.
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99% of people will never entertain killing their wife for monetary gain. Even if they don't like their wife. A clear conscience is worth infinity. Just the idea that you would entertain the thought is slightly disturbing, I hope you aren't married.

So, profit might motivate a decidedly small amount of people to commit murder, but the Majority of people will never consider it.
 
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NoDrama

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
remember what you paid for long distance? I do.
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Yep, I remember the prices going down every year too, I think I was paying 6 cents a minute when they switched us over. Prices did go down over the next 30 years, but that should be expected with the better technology, the larger infrastructure etc etc. There is no reason to believe that Ma Bell couldn't exist today with the same or better prices as long as its General officers/shareholders/board of directors were conscionable people.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
Gastanker said:
Most logging companies have halted these practices because they are not profitable - not for environmental or local legal reasons. If you read my long post above you'll see that although they are environmentally friendly, most all of their decisions serve their best interest.
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then lets talk about old growth and large tree issues. Enlightend as they are, most companies would have cut down every last redwood giant and every bit of old growth forest. Why? because it would be in their best interest to sell those trees. By the way, you may find some enlightened logging companies but we all know that they have grand PR firms working for them having us all believe that they are altruistic good citizens who what nothing but the very best for the country.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
99% of people will never entertain killing their wife for monetary gain. Even if they don't like their wife. A clear conscience is worth infinity. Just the idea that you would entertain the thought is slightly disturbing, I hope you aren't married.

So, profit might motivate a decidedly small amount of people to commit murder, but the Majority of people will never consider it.
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True sir, but I am using your analogy. You are depending upon the morality of the individual to save a single person (a wife). Compare that to what we are speaking of - things are a bit different in that realm, if even one percent of corporations violate extensive ethical boundaries for profit then we are left with a hell of a mess. consider how few companies need to dump toxic waste in a near by river in order to violate a huge number of communities.
 
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NoDrama

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
then lets talk about old growth and large tree issues. Enlightend as they are, most companies would have cut down every last redwood giant and every bit of old growth forest. Why? because it would be in their best interest to sell those trees. By the way, you may find some enlightened logging companies but we all know that they have grand PR firms working for them having us all believe that they are altruistic good citizens who what nothing but the very best for the country.
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If they WOULD have then how come the giant redwoods and sequoias still exist? Private land still has giant trees on it to this day, government parks are not exclusively the domain of the ancient trees. In fact if you do some research you will find that the majority of old growth redwoods and sequoias are on private land.
 
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NoDrama

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
True sir, but I am using your analogy. You are depending upon the morality of the individual to save a single person (a wife). Compare that to what we are speaking of - things are a bit different in that realm, if even one percent of corporations violate extensive ethical boundaries for profit then we are left with a hell of a mess. consider how few companies need to dump toxic waste in a near by river in order to violate a huge number of communities.
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Do we have government regulations against wife killing right now at this very moment?
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
then lets talk about old growth and large tree issues. Enlightend as they are, most companies would have cut down every last redwood giant and every bit of old growth forest. Why? because it would be in their best interest to sell those trees. By the way, you may find some enlightened logging companies but we all know that they have grand PR firms working for them having us all believe that they are altruistic good citizens who what nothing but the very best for the country.
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Are you just trying to be right about anything now?

We are talking about the government leasing specific pieces of land to logging companies with stipulations.

The reason we are having this discussion is that it is coming up in current events.

A history of all of the bad things the logging companies did in the past is not helpful here.

You seem to think that without government the companies of America (which are owned, run and staffed by Americans) would have raped every bit of earth, squandered every resource and left us sitting on a barren rock.

I cant have a serious discussion with you, there is too large a gap between your resentment and fear of private companies and reality.
 
Gastanker

Gastanker

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
then lets talk about old growth and large tree issues. Enlightend as they are, most companies would have cut down every last redwood giant and every bit of old growth forest. Why? because it would be in their best interest to sell those trees. By the way, you may find some enlightened logging companies but we all know that they have grand PR firms working for them having us all believe that they are altruistic good citizens who what nothing but the very best for the country.
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I thought the news was the one wanting us to believe they are all terrible rich money hungry assholes that hate the environment. Know any park rangers, loggers, anyone with the forestry service? I know quite a few and none of them are rich, none of them are money hungry, they are all HUGE into the environment - for most of them it's why they do what they do. Some of them are assholes but if you know enough that's just granted.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
If they WOULD have then how come the giant redwoods and sequoias still exist? Private land still has giant trees on it to this day, government parks are not exclusively the domain of the ancient trees. In fact if you do some research you will find that the majority of old growth redwoods and sequoias are on private land.
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Private land owned by conservancy groups, purchased from lumber companies.
 
Gastanker

Gastanker

Well-Known Member
Before hating corporations I think people need to look at who corporations are. Oh wait, its them, and the person next to them, and their best friend and all his coworkers, the checkout clerk at the grocery store, and the bank, and the gas station, the person that made their car, phone, food. Do you hate the environment? Are you super rich? What about your coworks? Your friends? Hmmm...
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
Do we have government regulations against wife killing right now at this very moment?
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Of course we do, and we both know that such laws are for the minority because as you say, the majority abide by their own code of conduct, most laws are expressly FOR that one percent.
 
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