Par Readings

[brahbrahbinks]

I think the best way that we can educate people on which led system actually works is to provide accurate readings that are unbiased and scientific. Par and pur are so far the best way to measure light that is able to be absorbed by plants. Everyone should join me in emailing and calling companies to find out what the actually par readings are.
Par from 12" or 1'
Lumigrow Es 330: 480 micromols
Lumigrow Es 165: 240 micromols
Apache Tech AT-120: 890 micromols

That's all I got for now, if any one wants to chime in be my guest.

 

[backyardagain]

Im going to buy a meter for the lux/lumens. Gonna try for obe with par too. And then get a few of my own. Right now I got a 135w looking for another.

 

[chazbolin]

Good post but I might add that this is a complex topic and micromole readings alone represent a value in intensities calibrated for plant spectra. Of course this is better the lux, lumen or footcandle measurements but even those measurements are adjusted based on the meter being used for the kelvin temperature it's reading. So saying one fixture or lamp is better then another based on strictly PAR readings is not taking into consideration the plants entire photosynthetic absorption requirements.

Micromoles or uMoles represents intensity within the PAR region of 400-700 nanometers. Before dropping big coin on the latest and greatest you'll also need to know the spectrums being emitted within this wide range and that is measured in Photosynthetic Photon Flux Density. In other words I can have quantum meter or PAR meter, displaying PAR intensity @ 890 uMole reading in UV (veg) ranges that does in fact fall within the PAR spectrum but is missing or has lower intenities within the Red-Far Red regions that the plant needs for flower.

That is why PAR values are best defined in relative intensities, PPFD, over the entire PAR region. This can be seen by the mfg data usually on their home page for the light they are offering as a Spectral Distribution Graph that shows the entire PAR spectrum and the Relative Intensities that their lamp emits within PAR regions. As you look at the various manufacturers Specatral Distribution Graphs (if they even post them) keep in mind that energy consumed above the PAR values is wasted energy to the plant and results in excess heat to the indoor environment.

 

[PetFlora]

^^^like^^^

Chaz can you describe what you mean here keep in mind that energy consumed above the PAR values is wasted energy to the plant and results in excess heat to the indoor environment.

 

[chazbolin]

When a plant has absorbed the energy it needs, as we measure by PPFD which values intensity and spectrums, when all of the chlorophyll absorption takes place the plant has reached 'saturation'. It does not need any more energy to complete what its particular RNA structure has programmed it to absorb at that level of growth its currently at.

When we look at the PAR curve for a terrestrial plant you want to spend as wide as energy as possible to more closely mimic solar energy which allows the plant to complete it's naturally programmed photomorphogenesis. We cannot recreate the sun but we can provide the plant the extended lighting integrals to meet its daily mole saturation count. With cannabis daily mole saturation is around 18 moles. Which with the proper wide spectrum lamps these PPFD values can be found in a 12-13 hr daily on cycle.

If the lamp is on longer then that or much of the energy it produces is well above PAR (look at the lamps spectral distribution graph) so as to 'fall' within red spectrums then the efficiency of the lamp should be questioned relative to entire analysis of cost/m2

 

[HiloReign]

When a plant has absorbed the energy it needs, as we measure by PPFD which values intensity and spectrums, when all of the chlorophyll absorption takes place the plant has reached 'saturation'. It does not need any more energy to complete what its particular RNA structure has programmed it to absorb at that level of growth its currently at.

When we look at the PAR curve for a terrestrial plant you want to spend as wide as energy as possible to more closely mimic solar energy which allows the plant to complete it's naturally programmed photomorphogenesis. We cannot recreate the sun but we can provide the plant the extended lighting integrals to meet its daily mole saturation count. With cannabis daily mole saturation is around 18 moles. Which with the proper wide spectrum lamps these PPFD values can be found in a 12-13 hr daily on cycle.

If the lamp is on longer then that or much of the energy it produces is well above PAR (look at the lamps spectral distribution graph) so as to 'fall' within red spectrums then the efficiency of the lamp should be questioned relative to entire analysis of cost/m2

Very concise! Thank you for droppin' the knowledge!

 

[Xoshua]

Can you guys point me to the nearest book(s) or degrees for such knowledge? Awesome info!

 

[brahbrahbinks]

Good post but I might add that this is a complex topic and micromole readings alone represent a value in intensities calibrated for plant spectra. Of course this is better the lux, lumen or footcandle measurements but even those measurements are adjusted based on the meter being used for the kelvin temperature it's reading. So saying one fixture or lamp is better then another based on strictly PAR readings is not taking into consideration the plants entire photosynthetic absorption requirements.

Micromoles or uMoles represents intensity within the PAR region of 400-700 nanometers. Before dropping big coin on the latest and greatest you'll also need to know the spectrums being emitted within this wide range and that is measured in Photosynthetic Photon Flux Density. In other words I can have quantum meter or PAR meter, displaying PAR intensity @ 890 uMole reading in UV (veg) ranges that does in fact fall within the PAR spectrum but is missing or has lower intenities within the Red-Far Red regions that the plant needs for flower.

That is why PAR values are best defined in relative intensities, PPFD, over the entire PAR region. This can be seen by the mfg data usually on their home page for the light they are offering as a Spectral Distribution Graph that shows the entire PAR spectrum and the Relative Intensities that their lamp emits within PAR regions. As you look at the various manufacturers Specatral Distribution Graphs (if they even post them) keep in mind that energy consumed above the PAR values is wasted energy to the plant and results in excess heat to the indoor environment.

So basically all you're saying is that Par represents the INTENSITY and not the spectrum, so yes it would be unwise to purchase based solely on par measurements. I am making it a point that par should be an integral part in making a purchase and that companies need to make there numbers well known such as true wattage or actual draw. Most sites have caught on and now display actual wattage draw and even spectrum used, that is no longer such an issue. Penetration is really the only obstacle that leds really face as of now. We need to start demanding companies to release their numbers so customers can make an informed decision. Par meters dont measure values above par cause they would be above 700 and in the far red and infared which is heat.

 

[chazbolin]

So basically all you're saying is that Par represents the INTENSITY and not the spectrum, so yes it would be unwise to purchase based solely on par measurements. I am making it a point that par should be an integral part in making a purchase and that companies need to make there numbers well known such as true wattage or actual draw. Most sites have caught on and now display actual wattage draw and even spectrum used, that is no longer such an issue. Penetration is really the only obstacle that leds really face as of now. We need to start demanding companies to release their numbers so customers can make an informed decision. Par meters dont measure values above par cause they would be above 700 and in the far red and infared which is heat.

While there is little chlorophyll absorption above 700nm flowering and germination are still positively influenced by the presence of FR/IR wavelengths. The presence of a 730nm wavelength increases trichome layering. While there are those that don't feel quantum PAR meters don't need to measure these ranges north of 700nm and I would tend to agree since the meters are calibrated anyway (I have an algorithm that takes a standard lux meter and converts the measurements to PAR) and this would just be a widening of the calibration I would still refer anyone interested in knowing what the Relative Intensities of the lamps emitted spectrums refer to the manufacturers Spectral Distribution Graph, chart or Spectrum Analysis (whatever they're calling it). None of the LED mfg's tend to offer this data as an overlay of PAR values and their particular LED lamp spectra. Point me to any LED company that does and I'll stand corrected (to a point).

 

[puffenuff]

While there is little chlorophyll absorption above 700nm flowering and germination are still positively influenced by the presence of FR/IR wavelengths. The presence of a 730nm wavelength increases trichome layering. While there are those that don't feel quantum PAR meters don't need to measure these ranges north of 700nm and I would tend to agree since the meters are calibrated anyway (I have an algorithm that takes a standard lux meter and converts the measurements to PAR) and this would just be a widening of the calibration I would still refer anyone interested in knowing what the Relative Intensities of the lamps emitted spectrums refer to the manufacturers Spectral Distribution Graph, chart or Spectrum Analysis (whatever they're calling it). None of the LED mfg's tend to offer this data as an overlay of PAR values and their particular LED lamp spectra. Point me to any LED company that does and I'll stand corrected (to a point).

Not sure if this is the data you were asking about or not:



You guys seem to know a lot more about par than me so maybe this isn't what you were seeking for. I also have a couple video links from lumigrow and apachetech that demonstrate par readings and par readings at specific nm ranges if anyone is interested I can post those.

 

[chazbolin]

The LED wavelengths shown on the AT120RB show peaks @ 470 & 630nm and are very narrow bandwidths.
The LED wavelengths shown on the AT120WR show a Veg level listed as 6,100K which is odd since we're dealing in quantum values but self corrects to 630nm for flower.

Take a look at any chlorophyll absorption chart and you'll see the missing spectrums that must be present at some levels to allow the plant to transition thru the entire growth cycle as veg-coratenoid-flowering/bud. A successful transition allows the plant to achieve what is known as the Emerson Effect. That is when the plant does not stress from missing wavelengths and grows to it's largest genetic capacity bearing the greatest abundance and quality of fruit. Narrow spectrums as you see here require the plant to delay growth and result in lowered Net Photosynthetic Action Spectra. That is lost energy that the plant should use for growing but instead try's to fully develop within the narrow LED bandwidths +/- 10 nm of half peak bandwidth that are available to it.

 

[parseeker]

The LED wavelengths shown on the AT120RB show peaks @ 470 & 630nm and are very narrow bandwidths.
The LED wavelengths shown on the AT120WR show a Veg level listed as 6,100K which is odd since we're dealing in quantum values but self corrects to 630nm for flower.

Take a look at any chlorophyll absorption chart and you'll see the missing spectrums that must be present at some levels to allow the plant to transition thru the entire growth cycle as veg-coratenoid-flowering/bud. A successful transition allows the plant to achieve what is known as the Emerson Effect. That is when the plant does not stress from missing wavelengths and grows to it's largest genetic capacity bearing the greatest abundance and quality of fruit. Narrow spectrums as you see here require the plant to delay growth and result in lowered Net Photosynthetic Action Spectra. That is lost energy that the plant should use for growing but instead try's to fully develop within the narrow LED bandwidths +/- 10 nm of half peak bandwidth that are available to it.

Very enlightened conversation. I am researching for my new LED light now. Would you mind recommending an acceptable solution from either Apache Tech, Lumigrow, Stealth Grow or another company. These appear to be good options based on my research (basically literature and videos) however, since I am not knowledgeable in this discipline I am hoping to obtain some suggestions from folks who are. Can you throw a bone over the fence? Cheers...

 

[The Dawg]

Very enlightened conversation. I am researching for my new LED light now. Would you mind recommending an acceptable solution from either Apache Tech, Lumigrow, Stealth Grow or another company. These appear to be good options based on my research (basically literature and videos) however, since I am not knowledgeable in this discipline I am hoping to obtain some suggestions from folks who are. Can you throw a bone over the fence? Cheers...

Yea What He Said

 

[puffenuff]

I will be purchasing the apachetech AT120wr 3:2 ratio in the next month or so after my current cycle is finished and will post a thread about it.

 

[PetFlora]

Puff, www.ledgrowlightsreview.org reviewed the apache

 

[puffenuff]

Puff, www.ledgrowlightsreview.org reviewed the apache

yeah ive read that but dude didn't even get his hands on one nor did he review the white+red and I don't think he put in much effort to taking to apachetech because I got ahold of them first try. How are you going to review a panel without even testing it? I don't share any of the same concerns as that reviewer. My review of the light will be much more reliable.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

yeah ive read that but dude didn't even get his hands on one nor did he review the white+red and I don't think he put in much effort to taking to apachetech because I got ahold of them first try. How are you going to review a panel without even testing it? I don't share any of the same concerns as that reviewer. My review of the light will be much more reliable.

Good to hear puff...your amassing quite an led collection

 

[hölynpöly]

Found this. Enjoy!

[video=youtube;dkRBY-kFAY8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkRBY-kFAY8[/video]

Info from youtube description.

Apollo6
With only 200W power consumption. No heat, plug and play.
12"(30cm) distance 1159 par
20"(50cm) distance 913 par
30"(76cm) distance 569 par

 

[PSUAGRO.]

California lightworks "solarflare" 200w (165w actual)

@12inches 1319umol
@18inches 578umol
@24inches 312umol

not bad for a little guy........this is all off their spec sheet and you can get the umol readings from the big boy "solarstorm" from the web site..........

 

[brahbrahbinks]

It's a shame I can't actually edit the first post so I can make an easy to read list without people having to sift through the thread to find what they need but oh well. Keep em coming, any1 wanna try and find the par on the kessil h350s?