Why oh Why oh Why ...
- Thread starter BadHabits
- Start date
Both sides of this fence is loaded with zealots.
No winning here.
No winning here.
BigBuddahCheese
New Member
Exactly. Do not understand the Jewish Zealot reference unless he is just referring to the defending part of the definition or the Jewish part. Either way I think he was banking on no one understanding his attempt at word play. Although it was a round about way to state what I and MANY others already did, do what works for you. No persuading here, just common sense without the fancy lingo.
zeal·ot (z
a. One who is zealous, especially excessively so.
b. A fanatically committed person.
No Homonym or hidden meaning in the reference.
Nukebisket
Well-Known Member
zeal·ot (zlt)n.
a. One who is zealous, especially excessively so.
b. A fanatically committed person.
No Homonym or hidden meaning in the reference.
And there it is folks!!!!
MonkE
Member
Really...? Greed?
Someone who flushes does so to make their bud taste better and will generally dry out their bud over a week.
I, someone who doesn't flush, enjoy better yields while taking the extra time during curing (no less than 3 weeks) to achieve a proper end product. My process takes longer but the end result is better. It's about doing it right and not cutting corners with cheap shortcuts like flushing.
If you ask me, the guys flushing are the greedy ones. Many don't realize it because flushing is such common practice now. Flushing is a SHORTCUT and is for those trying to find tricks to up their quality without going to market any later. A proper cure will push your timeframe out but give you a much better end product.
Look at it this way... Many people produce some of the best bud you will ever taste without flushing the plants... That obviously shows it can be done. So that being the case, all the guys who are unable to achieve quality without flushing are just that.... unable. Quit bashing the true method just because the shortcut, which works to an extent and at a cost, is easier for you.
Rumple
Well-Known Member
I don't get a single gram more when I did not flush. If your plant is still growing then you best let it keep going for a bit longer before harvest. Harvesting earlly will effect your yield, so don't do it. The only gain for not flushing is a weird taste.
Some folks like the weird taste.
Jorge Cervantes told me that every Cup grower he knows flushes. Yeah, go ahead and tell me how much better you grow weed then him.
Some folks like the weird taste.
Jorge Cervantes told me that every Cup grower he knows flushes. Yeah, go ahead and tell me how much better you grow weed then him.
MonkE
Member
The only gain for YOU is wierd taste.
Did you use the same curing process for flushed weed as you did for the unflushed?
It sounds to me like your inability to complete the process has supplied you with an incomplete view on this method.
Secondly... Your plants stop growing for the last week or two? That sucks.... Every other cannabis plant experiences it's most explosive bud development in it's final few weeks.... Maybe the planets that rule your grow space are misaligned..?
Flushing WORKS both in concept and in practice. It's a method that achieves improved taste by causing extreme deficiencies. This will result in multiple negatives like stunted growth and lower dry weight (not because unflushed is weighted with nutrients).
Something many need to realize is that the process is restructured to work with flushing. All these quick cure methods work only because of the deficiencies and stunted development caused by the flush.
Harvesting without flushing takes a much different process but for those willing to make the extra effort, it's well worth it. Proper feeding will allow your plants to push their maximum yield and potency for you. But they will be more loaded with nutrients when you harvest due to the lack of deficiencies. Here's where the true process comes into play. Curing is used to bring out the quality of your now amazingly healthy buds. Several process exist that are even used in commercial agriculture. Carbon Dioxide and Nitrogen are used to start anaerobic respiration and cause the plant to convert it's sugars to ethanol for energy (fermentation). The use of gasses also inhibits molds or bacteria from establishing in curing buds. Because of the reduced risk of biological contamination the curing/fermenting plant is able to be kept alive for extended periods of time allowing the maximum amount of resins to be transferred to the buds. Through the process the buds are also allowed to use up stored minerals and lose that "heavy" trait.
So yea... If you're not going to flush then don't expect to just dry and smoke your bud. There is a complete process coupled with weed that hasn't been flushed. All the guys saying it produces crap bud need to realize that their doing it wrong and through their incompetence their spreading misinformation. I'm perfectly willing to admit that flushing will show benefit.... But it's simply not the "best" way of doing it.
If you're willing to put in more time and effort then you will end up with a much better product. If it's no big deal... Then by all means, flush and be done with it quick.
Did you use the same curing process for flushed weed as you did for the unflushed?
It sounds to me like your inability to complete the process has supplied you with an incomplete view on this method.
Secondly... Your plants stop growing for the last week or two? That sucks.... Every other cannabis plant experiences it's most explosive bud development in it's final few weeks.... Maybe the planets that rule your grow space are misaligned..?
Flushing WORKS both in concept and in practice. It's a method that achieves improved taste by causing extreme deficiencies. This will result in multiple negatives like stunted growth and lower dry weight (not because unflushed is weighted with nutrients).
Something many need to realize is that the process is restructured to work with flushing. All these quick cure methods work only because of the deficiencies and stunted development caused by the flush.
Harvesting without flushing takes a much different process but for those willing to make the extra effort, it's well worth it. Proper feeding will allow your plants to push their maximum yield and potency for you. But they will be more loaded with nutrients when you harvest due to the lack of deficiencies. Here's where the true process comes into play. Curing is used to bring out the quality of your now amazingly healthy buds. Several process exist that are even used in commercial agriculture. Carbon Dioxide and Nitrogen are used to start anaerobic respiration and cause the plant to convert it's sugars to ethanol for energy (fermentation). The use of gasses also inhibits molds or bacteria from establishing in curing buds. Because of the reduced risk of biological contamination the curing/fermenting plant is able to be kept alive for extended periods of time allowing the maximum amount of resins to be transferred to the buds. Through the process the buds are also allowed to use up stored minerals and lose that "heavy" trait.
So yea... If you're not going to flush then don't expect to just dry and smoke your bud. There is a complete process coupled with weed that hasn't been flushed. All the guys saying it produces crap bud need to realize that their doing it wrong and through their incompetence their spreading misinformation. I'm perfectly willing to admit that flushing will show benefit.... But it's simply not the "best" way of doing it.
If you're willing to put in more time and effort then you will end up with a much better product. If it's no big deal... Then by all means, flush and be done with it quick.
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
You're on what, your second grow now? Lol.
And your endless fellating of Jorge Cervantes is tiresome, he's no different than you or I, why you hold him in such high regard for taking other peoples supposed "facts" and putting them in a book.
Youll always be a noob until you get that moment of realisation that cannabis is a fucking PLANT like all the rest of them...other plants even produce tricomes, theres no THC but the structure isn't unique to cannabis. The only difference between cannabis and any other plant is the THC...so why are all other plants left "unflushed"?
You still have never answered that and never will, cos the answer makes your little flushing feel good process pointless.
i sit here and read these posts and really crack up we hammer our plants with nutrients through out veg and flower and to think that flushing last week or 2 is going to get rid of it it makes buds taste better flushing hahhahaha once everyone start realizing that plant breaks down NPK and uses it we all can grow better weed with out worrying about flushing
first off flushing is used only when there has bin a over abundance of fertilizer given to the medium and or salt build up also note LAST CASE SCENERIO
flushing is not good it starves the root system from oxygen you want good tasteing bud learn how to dry and cure your weed thats 99 percent of the taste and how it burns
Even in hydroponics a novice grower will only use water last week or 2 a pro will back off his 1100 - in 5 - 6 th week ending his flowering stage with about 450 - 600 ppm chop day
Does it make sense to starve your plant last couple weeks of flower thats when its the most crucial time for the plant does a foot ball player stop eatting day before the big game ??>?
i really like the above post if people would stop getting jorge out of there ass and realize a plant is a plant give it what it wants find the best technique you can give it for best possible yield and grow trust me theres 1000's of growers that would make jorge look like a tool if you came right down to it he wrote some book big deal that he doesn't have the rights to yea jorge sold his publishing rights obviously he is hurting lol but anyways he is a old stoner that thought hey lets write a book big deal like i said there's growers out there that could school him
PS: Jorge get a hair cut you bum
)
first off flushing is used only when there has bin a over abundance of fertilizer given to the medium and or salt build up also note LAST CASE SCENERIO
flushing is not good it starves the root system from oxygen you want good tasteing bud learn how to dry and cure your weed thats 99 percent of the taste and how it burns
Even in hydroponics a novice grower will only use water last week or 2 a pro will back off his 1100 - in 5 - 6 th week ending his flowering stage with about 450 - 600 ppm chop day
Does it make sense to starve your plant last couple weeks of flower thats when its the most crucial time for the plant does a foot ball player stop eatting day before the big game ??>?
i really like the above post if people would stop getting jorge out of there ass and realize a plant is a plant give it what it wants find the best technique you can give it for best possible yield and grow trust me theres 1000's of growers that would make jorge look like a tool if you came right down to it he wrote some book big deal that he doesn't have the rights to yea jorge sold his publishing rights obviously he is hurting lol but anyways he is a old stoner that thought hey lets write a book big deal like i said there's growers out there that could school him
PS: Jorge get a hair cut you bum
)
My hair is longer than Jorge's and I'd be willing to bet my weed would put him on his lips.
Rumple
Well-Known Member
Although the above statement might sound like an insult, it is a legitimate question.
I grow that same strain (have had the mother plant or a clone of her for over eight years) in the same environment, using the same harvest and cure method for years. I am told the results of my effort is a great tasting and highly effective end product. I am always looking to improve my quality, yield, and cycle time. I'm not closed minded and will try anything that sounds reasonable. I gave the results and observations of what took place in my grow room, with no intent to insult others who don't use my methods or share my opinions.
So you can tell me I am doing it all wrong, but allow me to take the opinion with a grain of salt.
No... I have post of grows six and seven years old.
This one is from 2006:
So it's not my 2nd harvest. But I love to look at bud porn, so Harrekin you are welcome to send me some of yours. Can't wait to check it out.
I respect all of your opinions and don't think anyone of you are dumb. Lets keep it a friendly conversation among growers
MonkE
Member
I've seen your diy threads and have always thought you were a smart guy.
Yes it was a legitimate question. It wasn't at all intended as an insult... I can just be a little straight forward and abrasive at times, but I mean well.
Your curing method dries the buds out way way way too quick to get proper taste from unflushed buds. With the way the cells work and how quick you dry out the buds, you're actually doing little to change the buds themselves... Maybe the deepest part where some original moisture is maintained. Once a cell loses too much water it will die. If you lose all the cells in large areas (the outside of the buds become crispy) then you lose the ability to change the makeup of that area. Since you flush your buds are already deficient so that's not as big of an issue. With unflushed buds the moisture will need to be maintained longer so the cells can continue to live and in my case I cut them off from oxygen and start fermentation.
Edit
I should probably clear this up... I get a little lost in the debates at times and lose track of what I'm saying... If I've claimed that flushing is the "wrong" way then I would like to retract that. It's just not the "best" method.
Yes it was a legitimate question. It wasn't at all intended as an insult... I can just be a little straight forward and abrasive at times, but I mean well.
Your curing method dries the buds out way way way too quick to get proper taste from unflushed buds. With the way the cells work and how quick you dry out the buds, you're actually doing little to change the buds themselves... Maybe the deepest part where some original moisture is maintained. Once a cell loses too much water it will die. If you lose all the cells in large areas (the outside of the buds become crispy) then you lose the ability to change the makeup of that area. Since you flush your buds are already deficient so that's not as big of an issue. With unflushed buds the moisture will need to be maintained longer so the cells can continue to live and in my case I cut them off from oxygen and start fermentation.
Edit
I should probably clear this up... I get a little lost in the debates at times and lose track of what I'm saying... If I've claimed that flushing is the "wrong" way then I would like to retract that. It's just not the "best" method.
Rumple
Well-Known Member
MonkE, I harvest every 75 to 80 days all year round, so it won't be much trouble to give non-flushing another try. My bag method takes six days to dry (three days hanging and three days in the bag), then another month of burping jars before it's ready (my wife breaks into jars before a month all the time, bugs the hell outa me). I have two Caliber III hygrometers I keep in random jars. I try and keep the bulk harvest stored around 55 to 60RH. Only during the wet season harvests do I need to make adjustments. What I am doing and the methods I use does in fact make a great product. I have shared it with thousands of people and have endless testimonials. Not that I can't improve more....
So lay out for me, how do I dry non-flushed buds so they don't taste weird?
So lay out for me, how do I dry non-flushed buds so they don't taste weird?
MonkE
Member
Yea I'm not doubting your ability to produce tasty bid with that method. I won't be the guy trying to claim that flushing and quick drying won't work at all.
It's hard to give an exact method as I don't have one yet.
Best advice I can give is to find a way to keep your buds alive and moist after chop without molding.
The current methods that I use with no real standard are a co2 chamber to hang the whole plant in and jars (I plan on replacing the jars with some sort of container that a purge/airlock can be added to in order to vent pressure). The chamber right now is nothing more than a black bucket that's been sealed off and I circulate co2 through the tank to remove oxygen. The idea here is to start cellular respiration and prevent oxidation of the thc. I kinda just randomly pick when I pull the plant from the bucket, trim the major leaves, chop it into segments, and then stuff the segments into jars again filled with co2. It's usually about a week before the buds end up in jars but their still extremely wet since the plant was sealed in a bucket with 0 airflow. Then you really gotta juggle it from that point... Things will start to turn to mush if I keep them moist too long (co2 won't kill bacteria so I suspect this may cause dead areas to decompose.. some leaves need to be removed from the jars because of this) so I pay attention to the way the leaves and buds are looking, allowing them to breathe a bit each time I go to refresh the co2 in the jar. Turns into a juggling act of life and death with the buds.... Gotta let em die as slow as possible without rotting away. The whole ordeal with the jars usually takes a couple weeks to dry out to the point of smokeable and they cure beyond that for however long.
Here's the jar I just started. These buds went into the jar a bit earlier than normal but it's a good example of how much moisture I start the process with. A LOT more than others.
It's hard to give an exact method as I don't have one yet.
Best advice I can give is to find a way to keep your buds alive and moist after chop without molding.
The current methods that I use with no real standard are a co2 chamber to hang the whole plant in and jars (I plan on replacing the jars with some sort of container that a purge/airlock can be added to in order to vent pressure). The chamber right now is nothing more than a black bucket that's been sealed off and I circulate co2 through the tank to remove oxygen. The idea here is to start cellular respiration and prevent oxidation of the thc. I kinda just randomly pick when I pull the plant from the bucket, trim the major leaves, chop it into segments, and then stuff the segments into jars again filled with co2. It's usually about a week before the buds end up in jars but their still extremely wet since the plant was sealed in a bucket with 0 airflow. Then you really gotta juggle it from that point... Things will start to turn to mush if I keep them moist too long (co2 won't kill bacteria so I suspect this may cause dead areas to decompose.. some leaves need to be removed from the jars because of this) so I pay attention to the way the leaves and buds are looking, allowing them to breathe a bit each time I go to refresh the co2 in the jar. Turns into a juggling act of life and death with the buds.... Gotta let em die as slow as possible without rotting away. The whole ordeal with the jars usually takes a couple weeks to dry out to the point of smokeable and they cure beyond that for however long.
Here's the jar I just started. These buds went into the jar a bit earlier than normal but it's a good example of how much moisture I start the process with. A LOT more than others.
Rumple
Well-Known Member
**Off topic** MonkE, are you going to trim your bud after it's cured? Or is that part of the process?
Your drying method seems a bit more complicated and equipment dependent then I can sort out at the moment. Most my harvests are over 3/4 pound of dried trimmed bud (every 75 days). To do your method with 13+ jars would be more work then the gain could justify.
I have to remember the "If it ain't broke" rule as well. The reviews of my current harvest makes me think I am doing something right, with the simple bag method I employ. Yet I do have the time to try something a bit less complicated if you come up with it in the future.
Great topic and nice looking buds.
Still waiting on Harrekin's bud shots. Even his micro CFL grow operation can produce a few nice buds worthy of a photo or two. Right?
Your drying method seems a bit more complicated and equipment dependent then I can sort out at the moment. Most my harvests are over 3/4 pound of dried trimmed bud (every 75 days). To do your method with 13+ jars would be more work then the gain could justify.
I have to remember the "If it ain't broke" rule as well. The reviews of my current harvest makes me think I am doing something right, with the simple bag method I employ. Yet I do have the time to try something a bit less complicated if you come up with it in the future.
Great topic and nice looking buds.
Still waiting on Harrekin's bud shots. Even his micro CFL grow operation can produce a few nice buds worthy of a photo or two. Right?
MonkE
Member
Part of the process and a painful part. After the first couple days in jars the buds usually become a ridiculously sticky mess so they can be painful to work with.
I cleaned up a few jars last night.
Agreed that my process is a lot of work.. Right now it may not be worth it because I can't really offer a simple step by step. I'm still in testing stages but will streamline the process and offer up something a bit more simple and exact to the community. Hopefully it doesn't take too long to get the process fine tuned.
All I can really give now is the suggestions I offered in my previous post and encouragement to others to test out new ideas. Never know what may work. Who knows... By the end of this I may be flushing again because I made the whole unflushed process so complicated
I cleaned up a few jars last night.
Agreed that my process is a lot of work.. Right now it may not be worth it because I can't really offer a simple step by step. I'm still in testing stages but will streamline the process and offer up something a bit more simple and exact to the community. Hopefully it doesn't take too long to get the process fine tuned.
All I can really give now is the suggestions I offered in my previous post and encouragement to others to test out new ideas. Never know what may work. Who knows... By the end of this I may be flushing again because I made the whole unflushed process so complicated
BigBuddahCheese
New Member
Rumble:
I have harvested both flushing and non-flushing in my DWC buckets. Both taste exactly the same, no "weird" tastes to me or anyone that I let "sample" my meds.
This was the exact same harvest schedule 70-80 days flower, same nutes, RO water, bucket, air stones or any other factor that may taint the results. I do choose to "flush" but I rather call it save my money on nutrients as both methods produced the same sweet, dank, potent smoke I am accustomed too. "Flushing" simply saves me money on nutrients as the plant can utilize the nutrients stored in the fan leaves for the remaining few weeks, so saving me money not because I want a clean, smooth smoke. I get that either way, and I contribute it to being in tune with my plant and not pounding them with 1000ppm+ for entire flower, I understand the stages of flowering and the plants nutrient requirements in each.
I don't have any threads with a bajilllion hits, I have a simple journal, no DIY threads so I can't swing as big of stick on a soapbox like you, but I do have a simple common sense approach that has the ability to think outside the box on data that is verified by me. Really that is what matters as it should to yourself and everyone else here, DO WHAT YOU LIKE AND WORKS FOR YOU.
You seem open minded intelligent individual, but your post seems a bit one sided like "my way is the right way because my bajillion post thread.." blah blah, I hope it wasn't intended that way because you seem like a good contributor for the people who need it here.
here is a few pics of upcoming harvest and past ones.. just in case I get the cynical "posting pics" comment:
I have harvested both flushing and non-flushing in my DWC buckets. Both taste exactly the same, no "weird" tastes to me or anyone that I let "sample" my meds.
This was the exact same harvest schedule 70-80 days flower, same nutes, RO water, bucket, air stones or any other factor that may taint the results. I do choose to "flush" but I rather call it save my money on nutrients as both methods produced the same sweet, dank, potent smoke I am accustomed too. "Flushing" simply saves me money on nutrients as the plant can utilize the nutrients stored in the fan leaves for the remaining few weeks, so saving me money not because I want a clean, smooth smoke. I get that either way, and I contribute it to being in tune with my plant and not pounding them with 1000ppm+ for entire flower, I understand the stages of flowering and the plants nutrient requirements in each.
I don't have any threads with a bajilllion hits, I have a simple journal, no DIY threads so I can't swing as big of stick on a soapbox like you, but I do have a simple common sense approach that has the ability to think outside the box on data that is verified by me. Really that is what matters as it should to yourself and everyone else here, DO WHAT YOU LIKE AND WORKS FOR YOU.
You seem open minded intelligent individual, but your post seems a bit one sided like "my way is the right way because my bajillion post thread.." blah blah, I hope it wasn't intended that way because you seem like a good contributor for the people who need it here.
here is a few pics of upcoming harvest and past ones.. just in case I get the cynical "posting pics" comment: