Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize

[blueJ]

I was paying seventy some dollars for a litre of the bioboost and it was gone in less than one run, the biobud or whatever GO's is called was like twenty something dollars and will probably last twice as long, we'll see how this run with all GO products goes though...

 

[+ WitchDoctor +]

Yea I only use the Bio Boost weeks 2-4 because it's so expensive.

 

[Kalyx]

Originally Posted by blueJ
Anyone care to share their thoughts that have used both GO line and bioCanna?

I've used pura vida samples in the past. Luckily, I got many of them and it worked well, just not too concentrated so pricey.


I have run through 2 full line samples of 1 quart GO in organic soil. IMO the line is very easy to use and nicely streamlined, just follow the chart and double the chart is OK for most hybrids. Quality was great and the meds were VERY potent, yield was nice too. I use RO and the GO cal mag did the job for me. I did pH up it as it went down to 4.2-4.4 with RO. AACT helps it but is not necessary.


I have done one Rize style veganic round with OG, an old cut which is tricky to grow. The quality claims on RIU are what tempted me to shell out for the BioCannas and BioBOOST. I stuck to the program recommended in the thread and luckily already had some of the many supplements on the list... The OG came out wonderful but I must admit it was not a flawless run. I had high temps early then the pH drifted a bit high when I wasn't paying attention too well at the end. The prune was also a bit sloppy as I was drooling to make IWE out of veganic OG. I'll post some pics when our data storage issues resolve...

blueJ

I was paying seventy some dollars for a litre of the bioboost and it was gone in less than one run, the biobud or whatever GO's is called was like twenty something dollars and will probably last twice as long, we'll see how this run with all GO products goes though...​

Are those prices actually at a shop? Sounds closer to cost on the GO and steep discount on the BioBOOST. One shop here has both and charges straight MSRP and I think the BioBOOST is $111/Liter (15ml/gallon, 66.66 gallons feed) and the BioBud is $40/Quart (5ml/gallon, 192 gallons feed). So we would be charged $333 by canna VS. $40 by GO for the bloom booster to juice just under 200 gallons of feed! Now thats calculated I feel like a sucker. If they have even close to similiar performance the decision is obvious right? Well the GO rep says that the GO is vegan not 100% organic so that may complicate things for some of us.

Sounds like its time for a side by side. I think I have some Biobud left. It would be rize veganics with BioBOOST vs rize veganics with BioBud. I have multiple new strains to look at so it may be awhile before they are going in groups of the same variety again.

+ WitchDoctor +
I didn't get much of a difference in yield or quality to be honest. I thought the Bio Canna harvest tasted a little better, but I was biased I suppose because I kind of expected the Bio Canna to taste better.

Did you feel the increased cost of the nutes for the run justifies said quality increase? Your yields were similar on the same strain?
I grew this OG once before with Roots Organics full line and pruned much better and the Roots yield crushed the BioCanna yield even corrected for the lame prune job. Interestingly, the Roots OG nugs were much more oily and way denser, but the BioCanna OG nugs still taste just as strong.

 

[+ WitchDoctor +]

Are those prices actually at a shop? Sounds closer to cost on the GO and steep discount on the BioBOOST. One shop here has both and charges straight MSRP and I think the BioBOOST is $111/Liter (15ml/gallon, 66.66 gallons feed) and the BioBud is $43/Quart (5ml/gallon, 192 gallons feed). So we would be charged $333 by canna VS. $43 by GO for the bloom booster to juice just under 200 gallons of feed! Now thats calculated I feel like a sucker. If they have even close to similiar performance the decision is obvious right? Well the GO rep says that the GO is vegan not 100% organic so that may complicate things for some of us.

Sounds like its time for a side by side. I think I have some Biobud left. It would be rize veganics with BioBOOST vs rize veganics with BioBud. I have multiple new strains to look at so it may be awhile before they are going in groups of the same variety again.


Did you feel the increased cost of the nutes for the run justifies said quality increase? Your yields were similar on the same strain?
I grew this OG once before with Roots Organics full line and pruned much better and the Roots yield crushed the BioCanna yield even corrected for the lame prune job. Interestingly, the Roots OG nugs were much more oily and way denser, but the BioCanna OG nugs still taste just as strong.

That's about what I'm paying for nutes as well. http://growgreenmi.com/biothrive-bloom-gal

I tried doing a side by side with bio canna and GO, but one side got mites so I finished them all with the GO line and didn't get pics or anything...

A side by side bio bud vs bio boost would be awesome, but are we just assuming that these products are designed to do the same thing? I know the bio boost has something to do with plant hormones if I remember correctly...is bio bud the same kind of product?

And no, I don't think that the increased cost of nutes justifies the quality increase, at least not for most people. I actually recommend GO to people over Bio Canna because the GO line is easier to use and requires less supplements, and like you said it's just streamlined nice for people. But like you said, GO isn't 100% organic, or even 95% for that matter, which is why I use Bio Canna. I hate paying more, but I don't like nute companies keeping "secrets" from me lol.

I also just noticed last week that there's GMO soybean meal in the Bio Root, and call me an elitist, but if it starts with GMOs, it doesn't end with anything I want to grow my plants with lol. So I'm gonna use it up and replace it with something OMRI, or even better yet try to get by without it or less of something else.

 

[Kalyx]

Cool.

+ WitchDoctor +
A side by side bio bud vs bio boost would be awesome, but are we just assuming that these products are designed to do the same thing? I know the bio boost has something to do with plant hormones if I remember correctly...is bio bud the same kind of product?

From what I've learned in this thread plus my talk with the GH rep that day it seems they are pretty similar. They are both organic, non-pk blast, bloom enhancers whose specific "magic" effects are due to a cocktail of plant based extracts.

+ WitchDoctor +
GO isn't 100% organic, or even 95% for that matter, which is why I use Bio Canna. I hate paying more, but I don't like nute companies keeping "secrets" from me lol.

Agreed. I'm starting to wonder if all OMRI is a better shopping goal (knowing ALL inputs are scrutinized) in addition to veganic (bioaccumulation, ethical harvesting/production processes). My BioBoost label has no OMRI icon either. Can't say I want to pay THAT price again!

 

[Wolverine97]

That's about what I'm paying for nutes as well. http://growgreenmi.com/biothrive-bloom-gal

I tried doing a side by side with bio canna and GO, but one side got mites so I finished them all with the GO line and didn't get pics or anything...

A side by side bio bud vs bio boost would be awesome, but are we just assuming that these products are designed to do the same thing? I know the bio boost has something to do with plant hormones if I remember correctly...is bio bud the same kind of product?

And no, I don't think that the increased cost of nutes justifies the quality increase, at least not for most people. I actually recommend GO to people over Bio Canna because the GO line is easier to use and requires less supplements, and like you said it's just streamlined nice for people. But like you said, GO isn't 100% organic, or even 95% for that matter, which is why I use Bio Canna. I hate paying more, but I don't like nute companies keeping "secrets" from me lol.

I also just noticed last week that there's GMO soybean meal in the Bio Root, and call me an elitist, but if it starts with GMOs, it doesn't end with anything I want to grow my plants with lol. So I'm gonna use it up and replace it with something OMRI, or even better yet try to get by without it or less of something else.

The Bio Bud is - from what I'm told - essentially the same product as Bio Boost, just more concentrated. I did confirm a while back that it is hormone based, so GO doesn't recommend exceeding label dosages for that particular product. I don't use the Bio Root, I use Rapid Start instead. Happy growing everyone.

 

[+ WitchDoctor +]

The Bio Bud is - from what I'm told - essentially the same product as Bio Boost, just more concentrated. I did confirm a while back that it is hormone based, so GO doesn't recommend exceeding label dosages for that particular product. I don't use the Bio Root, I use Rapid Start instead. Happy growing everyone.

Hell yea, and it turns out the Bio Bud is organic, and they don't have a problem saying it's organic either, unlike the grow and bloom. What a great fucking day this turned out to be. I can actually get a gallon of Bio Bud for less than I'm getting a liter of Bio Boost. And I only have to use 1/3 of the amount. Looks like I'm gonna side by side it too then, since I have half a liter of Bio Boost left. I can get a quart of Bio Bud for $25 so I'll pick it up tomorrow.

 

[Wolverine97]

Hell yea, and it turns out the Bio Bud is organic, and they don't have a problem saying it's organic either, unlike the grow and bloom. What a great fucking day this turned out to be. I can actually get a gallon of Bio Bud for less than I'm getting a liter of Bio Boost. And I only have to use 1/3 of the amount. Looks like I'm gonna side by side it too then, since I have half a liter of Bio Boost left. I can get a quart of Bio Bud for $25 so I'll pick it up tomorrow.

I really like the stuff. I routinely out-yield my "hydro-is-the-way" buddies in a hand watered soil garden.

 

[trichmasta]

Price was definitely a concern for me on my first veganic run, so i went with the Natures Nectar line(N<P<K). Cost were fair, with a gal running $40 with discount! My results have been amazing with just 1 week of flush remaining. Flowers are solid, super resinous, and pungent smelling yield looks like it's gonna be amazing as well!! One thing i will add is that i will ph throughout next run; had some mg defienciences...no bigs.

 

[+ WitchDoctor +]

Price was definitely a concern for me on my first veganic run, so i went with the Natures Nectar line(N<P<K). Cost were fair, with a gal running $40 with discount! My results have been amazing with just 1 week of flush remaining. Flowers are solid, super resinous, and pungent smelling yield looks like it's gonna be amazing as well!! One thing i will add is that i will ph throughout next run; had some mg defienciences...no bigs.

Sounds good man, $40 dollars a gallon isn't bad. You know the Nature's Nectar P isn't vegan though right? It's poop-based. But the NN N and the NN K are both vegan. I use the N, it's great stuff.

 

[+ WitchDoctor +]

Oh by the way guys, I just noticed for the first time today the General Hydroponics logo on my AzaMax...I never realized that GH made it...and it's OMRI. So that probably puts the whole "we don't believe in certifications argument to rest huh? Although they did raise concern about their secret formulas...but I'd think they'd have had the same concerns for AzaMax.

 

[Wolverine97]

Oh by the way guys, I just noticed for the first time today the General Hydroponics logo on my AzaMax...I never realized that GH made it...and it's OMRI. So that probably puts the whole "we don't believe in certifications argument to rest huh? Although they did raise concern about their secret formulas...but I'd think they'd have had the same concerns for AzaMax.

I'm pretty sure they just buy that product from another source in bulk and re-label it. There is at least one other "Aza" product out there (Azatrol) that's in the exact same bottle and all. Same formula, dosage, etc...

 

[+ WitchDoctor +]

I'm pretty sure they just buy that product from another source in bulk and re-label it. There is at least one other "Aza" product out there (Azatrol) that's in the exact same bottle and all. Same formula, dosage, etc...

Oh ok. I had never noticed the GH logo on it either.

 

[trichmasta]

Sounds good man, $40 dollars a gallon isn't bad. You know the Nature's Nectar P isn't vegan though right? It's poop-based. But the NN N and the NN K are both vegan. I use the N, it's great stuff.

Yeah but it's clear, odorless, and contaminant free, so i gave them all a go...the P is more similar to a rock phosphate than a guano in the state and availability it's in; from my understanding Either way the i've heard it produces super clean medicine. which is always my focus. A little early to tell, but it looks like 1.5-3 oz/plant, so yield was decent too.

next run will be a side by side comparison; 6 in supersoil, 6 plant based

 

[blueJ]

Anything new and fantastic happening in the veganics world?? Anyone trying out new products/techniques?

Isn't floralicious a vegan organic bottled nute? i think that's what i see at the shop, but i never hear anyone using it, maybe i'm wrong...

WitchDoctor, you're always having bright fucking ideas on these boards, what strains are you smokin/growin? I really like that one with expanding your coco brick with tea, fuckin' brilliant! haha, why hasn't anyone else mentioned to do that, and weren't you the one with the N worms and a seperate bin for the PK? Any update on that?

 

[+ WitchDoctor +]

Anything new and fantastic happening in the veganics world?? Anyone trying out new products/techniques?

Isn't floralicious a vegan organic bottled nute? i think that's what i see at the shop, but i never hear anyone using it, maybe i'm wrong...

WitchDoctor, you're always having bright fucking ideas on these boards, what strains are you smokin/growin? I really like that one with expanding your coco brick with tea, fuckin' brilliant! haha, why hasn't anyone else mentioned to do that, and weren't you the one with the N worms and a seperate bin for the PK? Any update on that?

Ahh thanks Blue! I started a journal, but I've gotta get some pics tomorrow before I publish it, and repotted the some OG Kush and some White Rhinos. Right after I dumped 5 gallons of compost tea and 5 gallons of RO water over 2 bales to start my mix haha. And I know, I think I've been smoking myself SMARTER lately lol.

I'm gonna flip them in a week. I'm going to do a side-by-side with 2 OG Kush getting 5 ml of Humboldt Natural Bloom as my P boost getting 5 ml for week 2-3 after flip and 7.5 ml weeks 4-5, and 2 OG Kush getting just compost tea with the high PK compost my little guys have been working on for me for the P boost. I don't know if it's going to be enough, but I still don't have enough compost to actually mix it into the soil mix yet, as I've only had this bin going for like 5 or 6 weeks. I'm just super excited to try "something" lol.

But I mean shit, I know for a fact I'm getting N in my teas from using alfalfa, and we know using guanos in teas is more effective than mixing it or top dressing....so I feel like even if I don't get as good of a yield with the 2 getting tea I'll at least have a starting point for how much compost I think should be mixed into the soil for next time.

And then I guess I'll do a side-by-side with the Rhinos as well, but I'll give two of them the Natty Bloom and two of them a tea with just straight up high PK ashes, instead of compost. If the worm-compost idea doesn't work the way I think it will, hopefully this will.

But yea, I should be able to catch up and get that journal posted tomorrow...just don't wanna half ass it since I've been talking about it so much lol.


Oh, and yea floralicious is vegan, and I think it's just about as organic as most of the GO line. I've never used it.

Have any of you guys tried your hand at grafting two strains together? I watched a video on it the other day, looks really easy surprisingly. I've never kept mother plants because it's so inconvenient, I just take some cuttings before I flip. But I'm thinking about making a mother with 4 or 5 different strains on her and keeping CFLs on her to keep her from growing fast.

Any thoughts anybody? BlueJ? I know this isn't the advanced technique forum or whatever, but we're bored right? Lol.

 

[Dank Raptor]

Biocanna is no longer available in California. I have called everywhere online selling it and they all tell me they are out and won't be getting anymore in. Anyone know where I can get a 5 liter jug of Flores?

 

[Wolverine97]

Michigan...

 

[blueJ]

dank raptor - not true - biocanna has only been pulled from shelves for relabeling........unless they've all been lying to me lol, wouldn't surprise me ha!

In socal i go to green coast hydro, they had a few on the shelves and they said the rep wasn't back with the bulk of their products relabled, one on the shelf happened to be the big brown jug of flores...

 

[blueJ]

lookin' forward to seeing some of your side by sides witchdoctor! Soon i will be able to dedicate more time to actually documenting and experimenting etc.. I've been running a sour bubble clone for a year now, on mom # 2, i can't seem to bonsai them for ages like others, so i will be able to see what a crop on GO biothrive produces vs. all my prior biocanna runs.

I've seen and read up on the grafting and know of others doing it successfully with 3 or four strains on the same mom, again, something i would love to try myself down the road. Just don't forget to carefully label which one is which! I mixed up two phenos recently and have a whole crop that suprised the hell out of me been keeping a mom of the wrong one this whole time ha!