epic win

Canna Sylvan

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
This is an epic win for all marijuana growers. Not only do you go to jail for lying how you make your money, you get more jail time for not paying your correct ppac rate. Remember, schedule 1 drugs don't count the extra water, electricity, lease, etc. But if you are a hooker you made: john fee - ( condom - gas - outfit - hotel room ) = taxable income towards ppac tax rate.
 
B

beenthere

New Member
canndo said:
And there we go, from reasonable conversation to accusations of laziness, and freeloaders - this smear is never very far from the surface for some, now is it? No liberal works, all liberals are shiftless and do nothing but get food stamps and buy new sports shoes with the tremendous payments they get from government largess. And if I mention the billions in corporate welfare and tax breaks for the indulgent wealthy you will say something akin to...."well yeah, I don't like that either". But that isn't what you are pointing out here is it?
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Cry me a fucking river dude, you want bigger government and feel entitled and I don't. And it's a stone cold fact that the majority of people will side and vote for their best interests, you and I are proof of that.
It's not in my best interest to vote for a party that want's to raise my taxes in order to give other well bodied workers free health care. And get your facts straight, there is no such thing as corporate welfare, just like there is no such thing as big oil subsides, that's a bunch of left wing talking point BS. You can post all the childish cartoons you want but you can't produce any valid proof to substantiate your corporate welfare fallacy.
 
Total Head

Total Head

Well-Known Member
resident of mass here. i'd like to say some things about the mass health mandate and what has actually happened here.

1. i'm not sure why we needed the mandate in the first place. we already had masshealth/commonwealth care and freecare. there was never any such thing as "not getting treated" prior to the law in this state.

2. contrary to popular belief, just because everyone has insurance does not mean that there are enough doctors to treat everyone. there is currently a wait for some new enrollees to even be assigned a primary care doctor because all the doc's cards are full. making an appointment better be done months in advance in some areas or you ain't seein' no doctor. obamacare, like romneycare, does not address this issue, it simply opens a floodgate and creates a bottleneck.

3. there has been quite a spike in ER visits for things like the sniffles and assorted non-emergency boo-boos. it's quicker to be seen at the er than to wait for an appointment or prescription, and the er can't turn you away and is open 24 hours. they have insurance and goddangit they're gonna use it. don't worry. they'll wait. and now, so will everyone else. it's very difficult for the er to get compensation from the insurer for non-emergencies. someone is eating that cost and it will trickle down somewhere where we don't want it.

in conclusion, i think it's a farce. there never was a healthcare crisis in this state. there was accessible affordable/free OPTIONAL healthcare before the law and now everyone has to wait for it. they have made strides with some parts of it, like the requirement of insurers to use a certain amount of the premiums for actual healthcare rather than administrative crap, and a study just came out that stated that the poor, elderly and hispanics are opting for more elective surgeries, which suggests that a lot more of these people are covered, and that's a good thing, but they could have been covered before, many of them for free. i owe over 1500 bucks to the state for refusing to get healthcare, one year of which i was unemployed. the healthcare they offered was crap and i didn't want it and i didn't want to pay for it. yes. my state penalizes unemployed persons for not having healthcare.

i would be more on board with the obamacare if it addressed the absurd influx of patients that doctors are going to be mowed down by once it takes effect, and habitual abuse of the emergency room for non-emergency ailments should be penalized. other than that i don't much give a shit.
 
nontheist

nontheist

Well-Known Member
Total Head said:
resident of mass here. i'd like to say some things about the mass health mandate and what has actually happened here.

1. i'm not sure why we needed the mandate in the first place. we already had masshealth/commonwealth care and freecare. there was never any such thing as "not getting treated" prior to the law in this state.

2. contrary to popular belief, just because everyone has insurance does not mean that there are enough doctors to treat everyone. there is currently a wait for some new enrollees to even be assigned a primary care doctor because all the doc's cards are full. making an appointment better be done months in advance in some areas or you ain't seein' no doctor. obamacare, like romneycare, does not address this issue, it simply opens a floodgate and creates a bottleneck.

3. there has been quite a spike in ER visits for things like the sniffles and assorted non-emergency boo-boos. it's quicker to be seen at the er than to wait for an appointment or prescription, and the er can't turn you away and is open 24 hours. they have insurance and goddangit they're gonna use it. don't worry. they'll wait. and now, so will everyone else. it's very difficult for the er to get compensation from the insurer for non-emergencies. someone is eating that cost and it will trickle down somewhere where we don't want it.

in conclusion, i think it's a farce. there never was a healthcare crisis in this state. there was accessible affordable/free OPTIONAL healthcare before the law and now everyone has to wait for it. they have made strides with some parts of it, like the requirement of insurers to use a certain amount of the premiums for actual healthcare rather than administrative crap, and a study just came out that stated that the poor, elderly and hispanics are opting for more elective surgeries, which suggests that a lot more of these people are covered, and that's a good thing, but they could have been covered before, many of them for free. i owe over 1500 bucks to the state for refusing to get healthcare, one year of which i was unemployed. the healthcare they offered was crap and i didn't want it and i didn't want to pay for it. yes. my state penalizes unemployed persons for not having healthcare.

i would be more on board with the obamacare if it addressed the absurd influx of patients that doctors are going to be mowed down by once it takes effect, and habitual abuse of the emergency room for non-emergency ailments should be penalized. other than that i don't much give a shit.
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Another thing people are not mentioning is copay, it obvious they haven't has insurance in a while. Bucky posted a number for a familiy of five would pay 1000 a year for a plan. No way, I pay almost double that for me and my wife on Blue Cross Blue Shield A plan. The number posted is no where realistic and on top of that even on A plan I think we have a 1000 dollar deductible. A search will net you this an average family of five health insurance policy: $13,375, up 5% from last year.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2009-09-15-insurance-costs_N.htm

A statement from my insurance.
[h=2]Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association Statement on SCOTUS Decision[/h] June 28, 2012
WASHINGTON – Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association (BCBSA) President and CEO Scott P. Serota issued the following statement regarding today’s Supreme Court decision: “BCBSA has long been committed to ensuring everyone has high quality, affordable healthcare coverage. We will continue to implement the law while working with policymakers to fix provisions that will increase costs, such as the health insurance tax that will add hundreds of dollars to families’ premiums each year. On behalf of our 100 million members, Blue companies will continue to lead efforts in their local communities – partnering with doctors, nurses, hospitals and others – to rein in costs, improve quality, help people stay well and better manage their care when they need it.”
 
C

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Total Head said:
resident of mass here.
in conclusion, i think it's a farce. there never was a healthcare crisis in this state. there was accessible affordable/free OPTIONAL healthcare before the law and now everyone has to wait for it. they have made strides with some parts of it, like the requirement of insurers to use a certain amount of the premiums for actual healthcare rather than administrative crap, and a study just came out that stated that the poor, elderly and hispanics are opting for more elective surgeries, which suggests that a lot more of these people are covered, and that's a good thing, but they could have been covered before, many of them for free. i owe over 1500 bucks to the state for refusing to get healthcare, one year of which i was unemployed. the healthcare they offered was crap and i didn't want it and i didn't want to pay for it. yes. my state penalizes unemployed persons for not having healthcare.

i would be more on board with the obamacare if it addressed the absurd influx of patients that doctors are going to be mowed down by once it takes effect, and habitual abuse of the emergency room for non-emergency ailments should be penalized. other than that i don't much give a shit.
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As a former resident of Milton and Quincy. There never was a "healthcare crisis" in Mass. There was however a economic burden, on the taxpayers of the state. And as far as your doctor shortage. That is nationwide and was a problem before Romneycare and obamacare. Which hasnt even been implemented yet. The good news for the residents of the state. is even though you guys pay more on average than the rest of the nation (always have even before Romneycare) Your premiums have actually declined in regards to your income.

Two things can fix the doctor shortage.
1 opening up more residencies nationwide
2 paying the tuition of Doctors in exchange for after graduation service for a period of time.

And as to your assertion about elective surgeries.
it is not like they are getting nose jobs. They are getting Hip and knee replacements
http://www.boston.com/whitecoatnotes/2012/06/14/elective-surgeries-among-low-income-and-hispanic-adults-after-massachusetts-health-law/AYsVU7vzqok2C6ljw3pELN/story.html
 
C

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
nontheist

nontheist

Well-Known Member
ChesusRice said:
Which has nothing to do with Obamacare.
It has gone up every year as far as my memory can serve me. At least with Obamacare, The rise in insurance rates are addressed.
You really should be a fan of universal healthcare. But you are not.
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Well show me how a family of 5 go from 13k a year to 1k a year in premiums I mean the someones gotta be paying something
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
nontheist said:
The funny thing about stereotypes is they're generally true. If you want to prove me wrong, pick some articles out on this forum ... been reasonable in debate. ...... When you say shit like an ID is a poll tax you lost the support of most of the nation, because they pretty much think that's a stupid ass comment.
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First of all nontheist - try me. I will debate you on any issue, you will not find that I make more than a glancing reference to the "foolishness" of the right and I don't insult individuals in order to get my point across. So far as ID and poll taxes is concerned, you seem to jump to broad conclusions. No, ID is not, but requireing ID that in any way costs money and is required only in order to vote is indeed a poll tax, what would you call it if you have to pay money in order to vote?

I see it as a sad state of affairs when the right in these sites complain or characterize the left as always insulting rather than debating, as never using facts or reason when that is generaly the first thig the right does, furthermore they seem to judge all others based only upon their own conclusions drawn from a set of facts, just as you do here. Finally when the right is caught insulting the left, acting exactly as they claim the left does - they default to "well it isn't an insult if it is true" or my particular favorite "you made me insult you". You want a real debate? bring it on, otherwise, please refrain from the general smears while demanding that I or others prove those insults incorrect.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
ChesusRice said:
I wish we had single payer.
Imagine all the people stuck in shitty jobs just because they would have to wait 6 months to get insurance again because they had to start again someplace else.
Imagine all the conservatives that got laid off just like the democrats who would have insurance right now.
Imagine how much easier it would be for employers not to have to worry about the health insurance companies jacking them up every year, and employees who instead of getting treated for an illnessdecide they cannot afford medical care and show up to work spreading their diseases.

To all you people that say health care isnt a right? In a society such as ours not only is it a right. It is the responsilble thing to do.
It only takes one person with TB and no insurance to spread that shit like a wildfire in Colorado
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The folks to our right don't believe in such things. they hold that each person is responsible only to themselves, there is no community, there is no culture, nothing you do or fail to do will hurt me and nothing I do can hurt you (oh, except unless you are gay or don't want to have that child). In reality they are semi blind to the support structures that surround them, they think they all brought themselves up by their own bootstraps, that they never had any government or community help from anyone ever and that epidemics don't really happen, and f they do their having cepro in their medicine cabinet should make things all better.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
beenthere said:
Cry me a fucking river dude, you want bigger government and feel entitled and I don't. And it's a stone cold fact that the majority of people will side and vote for their best interests, you and I are proof of that.
It's not in my best interest to vote for a party that want's to raise my taxes in order to give other well bodied workers free health care. And get your facts straight, there is no such thing as corporate welfare, just like there is no such thing as big oil subsides, that's a bunch of left wing talking point BS. You can post all the childish cartoons you want but you can't produce any valid proof to substantiate your corporate welfare fallacy.
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Firstly, I don't believe you will find I have posted a single cartoon here. Secondly, you are conflating your insults with some sort of truth. Now I pointed out your insistance that liberals are lazy, they and shiftless and you come back with "raising taxes".

No corporate welfare? no oil subsidies? oh, like wellhead depleation allowance? http://www.corporations.org/welfare/ http://www.progress.org/2004/corpw37.htm
 
desert dude

desert dude

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
First of all nontheist - try me. I will debate you on any issue, you will not find that I make more than a glancing reference to the "foolishness" of the right and I don't insult individuals in order to get my point across. So far as ID and poll taxes is concerned, you seem to jump to broad conclusions. No, ID is not, but requireing ID that in any way costs money and is required only in order to vote is indeed a poll tax, what would you call it if you have to pay money in order to vote?

I see it as a sad state of affairs when the right in these sites complain or characterize the left as always insulting rather than debating, as never using facts or reason when that is generaly the first thig the right does, furthermore they seem to judge all others based only upon their own conclusions drawn from a set of facts, just as you do here. Finally when the right is caught insulting the left, acting exactly as they claim the left does - they default to "well it isn't an insult if it is true" or my particular favorite "you made me insult you". You want a real debate? bring it on, otherwise, please refrain from the general smears while demanding that I or others prove those insults incorrect.
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The real problem is that there is a deep distrust on both sides of the aisle. The left distrusts the right, and the right distrusts the left. The distrust spirals down to caricature level.

The right says, "we should not have non-citizens voting in US elections", and the left says, "you are just trying to steal the election for Republicans." And it spirals down from there.

The right says, "we should not be practicing state sanctioned racism, so affirmative action has to go", and the left screams, "racist!!!".

The right says, "we are going broke, we need to cut back on spending", and the left responds, "you just want to see poor people die in the streets."

And the politicians stoke these simmering resentments to their own benefit. It is tribal politics.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
desert dude said:
The real problem is that there is a deep distrust on both sides of the aisle. The left distrusts the right, and the right distrusts the left. The distrust spirals down to caricature level.

The right says, "we should not have non-citizens voting in US elections", and the left says, "you are just trying to steal the election for Republicans." And it spirals down from there.

The right says, "we should not be practicing state sanctioned racism, so affirmative action has to go", and the left screams, "racist!!!".

The right says, "we are going broke, we need to cut back on spending", and the left responds, "you just want to see poor people die in the streets."

And the politicians stoke these simmering resentments to their own benefit. It is tribal politics.
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If this were a symetrical situation I would simply stand down and agree with you over all. However, it is not, Fox is the principle organ of this tribal nature, it, combined with the pioneers of hate radio, Limbaugh and his ilk have long been fomenters extraordinare where there was never such blatant agitation toward a significant portion of the citizens of this country.
 
desert dude

desert dude

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
If this were a symetrical situation I would simply stand down and agree with you over all. However, it is not, Fox is the principle organ of this tribal nature, it, combined with the pioneers of hate radio, Limbaugh and his ilk have long been fomenters extraordinare where there was never such blatant agitation toward a significant portion of the citizens of this country.
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Fox is alone in this universe of ideologies? MSNBC doesn't count? ABC, NBC, and CBS don't count. NBC's "editing mistake" on the Zimmerman 911 call to purposefully make Zimmerman out to be a racist doesn't count? ABC's doctoring of the video tape of Zimmerman to remove the cuts on the back of Zimmerman's head don't count? FOX arose because there was an unfilled void in mass media, before FOX it was left-wing elitists 24/7.

The rise of right-wing media happened for a reason.

The left has tried to create their own version of popular fomenters but it has fallen flat, there is not much of a market for Maddow and Ed Schultz and there is a reason for that.
 
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