Does Cannabis Contain Melatonin And Are Our Blue LEDs Using It Up, Causing Problems?

C

cannabuilding

Active Member
I think most of the problems are due to LED panels being to close to the plants, I had cal/mg def with some strains with the panel to close and other strains could be the same distance with out any issues.

But I've noticed faster growth and less Deficiencies since i've added custom ap6 LED panel with 3k,5k,6.5k,10k,12k LEDS to the flowering tent which has bs500 and bs240. FranJan is on to something here for sure. I've noticed with Puffenuf's grow, after adding the white LED panel, plants are much healthier to his previous grow and growth rate seems faster

Peace to all and happy growing.
 
Splifferous

Splifferous

New Member
great thread, FranJan. i love this kind of thinking - and while i don't know how this all pertains to LED growing (i use full spectrum Inda-Gro lamps), but i think you are on to something regarding cannabis having/producing melatonin.

that 2nd link you posted in the first post states the following in the conclusion:
"Use of high tolerant plants to clean heavy metal and toxin-polluted water and soil is a cost-effective and environmentally friendly technology. A key step is to identify high tolerant plants."​

and hemp/cannabis is such a plant. for example, industrial hemp was used to clean up the soil around chernobyl. just do a google search with Phytoremediation & hemp as the search terms and you will see that there are tons of results.

now, aside from that... when i was checking out the "Figure 1" picture in the first link you posted, it occurred to me that tryptophan may be useful as it is a precursor of iaa; i'm not sure if there may be a useful pathway from melatonin to iaa, but that may not even be related to what cannabis may find useful (or not) regarding melatonin in the first place.

notice, in that link to the journal of experimental botany, how it notes several plants that have high native levels of melatonin (corn, rice, wheat, barley, and oats), those plants generally grow pretty vigorously...

as far as i'm concerned, you could be touching on something solid here. i'm tossing this topic in my notes for continued research...
 
FranJan

FranJan

Well-Known Member
Just a little bump to say I haven't forgotten this and have decided to use either Herbatonin .3mg or Advanta Supplements version. Herbatonin is plant based- long term dosage and probably better for foliar feeding and Advanta's Sublingual is easy to add to feedings and is probably better for watering in to get it to the roots but just might fuck with my micro-herd at it's strength (dosage) and PH (maybe), so decisions decisions decisions. Meanwhile clones still cloning, but the current set of SLH in the flowering room are going strong, Some of them just started pushing pistils so I'll soon see if they start to get beat up soon. Looking great so far though.

And I'd like to add that I'm going to use a fresh FFOF or HF for this test. That'll keep my suspect mix out of this :p
 
dank smoker420

dank smoker420

Well-Known Member
I have just started to notice cal/mag like spots on my leaves. I supplement with calmag so I know it is not that. My only guess would be the LEDs are to close. Although it is on lower leaves it would be the plant eating itself like said already. Hopefully it won't die completely. Might have to supplement with a cfl or something
 
Splifferous

Splifferous

New Member
for calcium and magnesium, i supplement with molasses. all i can get at the local grocers is full flavor, but that still has 8% of both cal and mag. if i recall correctly, CalMag is just something like 3% molasses.

why not try a foliar of organic seaweed (or kelp) extract? i get this GrowMore brand kelp at Bi-Mart for less than 5$ for 14 ounces. 5ml of it per liter of RO water makes a nice and simple foliar feed.
 
missnu

missnu

Well-Known Member
Seems if a light is causing plant problems then they might not be the best thing for plants.
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
I might jump on fran's train here..............I'm watching your experiment very closely............if effective this will benefit (regardless of tech used) all mj growers/ HYPE!!:P
 
FranJan

FranJan

Well-Known Member
Hey Dank Smoker, double check your strain to see if it's susceptible to that behavior. I grow Barney's Blue Cheese and and I just learned that BFBC is very susceptible to brown rust spots and that this behavior is considered normal to some growers of Cheese. I always get those spots to some degree or another with my BC plant in flower. And yup I've done the Cal/Mag/Iron/Height/Praying thing with little to no effect and that's why I ended up here. In my situation I think it's either:
1 I don't have enough light, but I do produce good bud when I grow SoG style so I think I'm ok there.
2 The light 's spectrums are imperfect, which I'm doubtful about but I can't really test them.
3 The lights are "doing" something to my plants, producing stress in a good environment, (and therefore maybe I can chill my ladies out trying this).
4 Maybe I am clueless when it comes to this growing game, but that remains to be seen :p.

Who knows if it will have any effect, but sometimes I get shit in my head and I just can't stop. Hey did you know you can catheterize a plant? Why, Why, WHY did I read about that ;).

And thanks for the input everyone.
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Light bleaching can cause moybdenum deficiency which looks similar to cal deficiency. Also if you over do it with magnesium. That can cause calcium lock out. I dont think that wave length causes those issues. I just think it slows growth. Makes flowering lagg as if there was too much nitrogen. In my flower the 420's made 2 plants take 3 weeks longer with smaller yield. Just chopped them yesterday. Since I pulled them from veg. The plants are growing 3 to 5 times faster. Some wave length supresses melatonin (growth and stress recovery). Again I think its 420 nm. I think.you should only add these melatonin and what ever else. If you are having growth issues. In those studies. They beat up those plants pretty much to prove their theory.

Thats my 2 thousand pesos
 
FranJan

FranJan

Well-Known Member
^^^Holy shit I totally forgot about light bleaching and moly deficiency. The SLH I have is very susceptible to that. The first time I grew it was with a BS240 and everything was fine until I decided that in week 9 I wanted a big finish. Dropped the 240 to 6 inches from the top and the very next day almost all the fan leaves looked like a textbook case of moly deficiency, along with the thick white pistils a few days later. The plant never really recovered from that so I'm very careful with my SLH and my panel height because of that.
 
dank smoker420

dank smoker420

Well-Known Member
FranJan said:
^^^Holy shit I totally forgot about light bleaching and moly deficiency. The SLH I have is very susceptible to that. The first time I grew it was with a BS240 and everything was fine until I decided that in week 9 I wanted a big finish. Dropped the 240 to 6 inches from the top and the very next day almost all the fan leaves looked like a textbook case of moly deficiency, along with the thick white pistils a few days later. The plant never really recovered from that so I'm very careful with my SLH and my panel height because of that.
Click to expand...
my pg-180 is about 6 inches away... maybe that is it. i have it pretty close to max height. i might have to turn off the veg spectrum or something to make it less powerful.
didnt really think of plant genetics expressing defiecincy like thinks. ill look that up cause i am growing cheese. the cheese i have isnt getting effected as badly as the unknown seed(forgot to label) i have. the unknown is looking bad. it could be that i need to give more cal/mag but i use the normal amount on the back. everyday it is getting worst. i can already tell its worse this morning than it was last night
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
You can cure molybdenum with green sand in a tea. Or foliar spray with tomato plant food - miracel gro, peters, grow more, scotts, etc..
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Ok I may have been wrong about 420nm. I think it still slows growth though.

I have read several studies today (very bored) about wave lengths and melatonin suppression. Now its 480nm to 525nm that supresses melatonin. White led's supress melatonin more than anything. Hps comes in 2nd on that one. When I get my internet back tomorrow. I will post links. Its a pain in the ass on my phone.
 
FranJan

FranJan

Well-Known Member
^^^Wow. Very cool info Hy. I could see how most whites could cause something like that with the massive amounts of blue some possess. But HPS too, huh? I would think MH.

I've got some ugly BC finishing right now. Maybe I'll start experimenting with those first. My SLH clones are just not responding to my LEDs that well (rate of growth). It's like a marathon. They're taking forever to get going, so I'm still waiting. And of course the SLHs in the flowering tent are doing great. Figures that when I want a fucked up plant, I grow a healthy one :). LOL. What a fuck-up I can be. LOL

better SLH - Copy.jpg

4 weeks old. Taken with HermieVision!
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Fran I also did an experiment with neem during flower on 2 little half gallons. I will never spray neem again during flower. I will never spray anything during flower.

I had a strain that i have had for 2 years turn hermie in the 4th week and could not figure out why. Well apparently neem during flower will suffocate the plant, causing it to turn hermie. my experiment. I only sprayed 3 times in the first 2 weeks. I would usually only spray to get rid of powdery mildew. Those 2 little ones turned hermie and the 4 others I did not spray, did not turn.

Also the copy of a copy rule could be in play too. Clone off of a clone repeatedly might make those genetics unstable or not......? That would take some serious lab work to figure out.....
 
FranJan

FranJan

Well-Known Member
Hey Hy thanks for the links and advice. I've done the Neem during flowering thing and learned that lesson also :(. My grow room is almost too dry (20% RH) and I use a humidifier to keep it in the normal range (45-60%). Plus there is lots of air flow in the flowering tent so I can get away with some foliar feeding, but I've decided against giving the plants melatonin this way for now. Right now I've purchased a liquid 1% vegan (rice based) melatonin and will be putting drops on top of the soil and then watering them in. This way the microbes will get some and the roots may absorb some, but it will probably take time for the plant to get some, ( I assume), so I am skipping the BC plants. When I transplant my SLH clones I'm going to start feeding some of them the melatonin then.They're starting to grow faster (finally) so I'll be transplanting this week and then veg for another week to 10 days, if they don't drop dead :). More to come gang.
 
Scotch089

Scotch089

Well-Known Member
^^^unnecessary.

Dank Smoker- You throw those CFL's in there yet? help?
(thinking that may be my weekend project)

Great thread- never settle, always strive to achieve more and stretch the current limits for the next to come and stretch it further.

-Periphery-
 
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