letting them go too long for seeds?

[Randm]

I know I have seen this answered somewhere, just can't recall where.

If a plant is left growing past the harvest time, and allowed too keep on growing, will it produce seeds?
If I remember right they will self seed. Will the seeds be hermi's, feminized, or just crappy seeds?

Just wondering

 

[JohnyPotHead420]

self seed? i have heard of herms seeding their self or sprying some silver shit on it to herm it for seed but never heard it seeding its self if its a female ill watch this bc if i can make a female make seed just by letting it live longer then im down for that

 

[JohnyPotHead420]

i just dont see it happening bc you have to have a male or hermy to create the pollen to make seed or i have seen ppl take hermy pollen and use it to pollen a female plant to make femlized seeds thats all i know to help you man

 

[reese123]

maybe this is possible... i found one seed in our last harvest. it germinated and is growing fine. it's too early to tell if it's going to be a girl or a boy, but i'm hopeful!

 

[JohnyPotHead420]

like i have done some researching on femilzed seeds the best way that im gonna use is grow a hermy plant it away from my garden out side and then wait till it has some pollen and get some small paint brush and wet it then dip it into the pollen then paint it onto the bud you want to pollen to get seeds im trying it next month just have to get the strain i wanna get seeds from to hermy and have another to pollinate it

 

[RetiredMatthebrute]

i believe what the original poster is refering too is that after a plant is "ripe" and optimum harvet time has past the plant becomes incresingly suceptable to producing male flowers in order to attempt to pollinate itself and seed, its a survival thing.

so it wont just self seed but it is possible to have it hermie and pollinate itself if let go for extended periods of time past its full maturity.

at least thats my understanding on the subject not exactly a pro on the topic.

 

[polyarcturus]

I know I have seen this answered somewhere, just can't recall where.

If a plant is left growing past the harvest time, and allowed too keep on growing, will it produce seeds?
If I remember right they will self seed. Will the seeds be hermi's, feminized, or just crappy seeds?

Just wondering

they will be more prone to hermie since they are selfed seeds. if you let a bud go too long they will produce male flowers and pollinate themselves. preferably you would want to pollinate long before this because by the time the seeds mature from that point your bud willl be shit, but possibly not, it just depends on the strain and scenario.

so if you wanted to produce male flowers long before that in order to obtain seeds there are ways to do it and it is the preferred method of obtaining seeds.

 

[Randm]

i believe what the original poster is refering too is that after a plant is "ripe" and optimum harvet time has past the plant becomes incresingly suceptable to producing male flowers in order to attempt to pollinate itself and seed, its a survival thing.

so it wont just self seed but it is possible to have it hermie and pollinate itself if let go for extended periods of time past its full maturity.

at least thats my understanding on the subject not exactly a pro on the topic.

Yes, thats the idea. Just wondering if the seeds created in this manner are worth a hoot.
I have an outdoor plant that I have already harvested. I left a bunch of pocorn and small buds on her and trimmed it down a bit. I was thinking of just letting it go in the ground to see if she will do just that. I read somewhere that they will try and self polinate and produce seeds without another male being around to polinate it. Not sure of the proper terminology. self seeding sounds right.

 

[althor]

From my understanding, to make solid feminized seeds it begins with the mother. She must be able to take major abuse without hermie. If she hermies easily, so will the offspring. Any stress will hermie it. If you can abuse the shit out of her and she stays female, take a clone. Use colloidal silver on the clone to force it to hermie, collect the pollen, use pollen on a different clone from the mother and you have stable feminized seeds.


Note: I could be entirely wrong.

 

[polyarcturus]

Yes, thats the idea. Just wondering if the seeds created in this manner are worth a hoot.
I have an outdoor plant that I have already harvested. I left a bunch of pocorn and small buds on her and trimmed it down a bit. I was thinking of just letting it go in the ground to see if she will do just that. I read somewhere that they will try and self polinate and produce seeds without another male being around to polinate it. Not sure of the proper terminology. self seeding sounds right.

maybe i was not as clear as water. yes this i called "self seeding". the seeds are worth a hoot, just not best breed, because seeds that are selfed to the same genetics(even if its a clone of the plant like above is implying) it will have a more likely chance to herm. if you where to take the pollen from herm plant and cross it with different genetics you would get a fem seed that can still herm, but will be less likely.

but i

 

[Jogro]

In a nutshell, female plants left past maturity (and most often sativa-type ones) will often make a few male flowers. This can occur even in strains that are otherwise hermie-resistant. The pollen from these rare male "banana" flowers can be used to fertilize female flowers to create feminized se-eds. This process has been called "rodelization" by breeder Soma, who has written about it and likes to use it himself. Its basically a "natural" way of the colloidal silver/chemical gender expression reversal technique.

Edit: Here is a good write-up on the technique by Soma himself for High Times magazine: http://hightimes.com/grow/soma/622


There are two issues here, limiting the use of this technique in practice.

First one, is that not every strain will make male flowers this way. If not, obviously, you can't use this technique.

Second, even in strains that will flower this way, normally the male flowers only appear at either the very end of flowering, or more usually AFTER peak maturity by a few weeks. Unless you happen to have one of the "never ending flowering" sativa plants, (and many will do this), once you're after peak maturity, its probably going to be too late to fertilize the plant to get viable se-eds.

Remember it takes 5-6 weeks for fertilized flowers to bring se-eds to maturity, and you're already just starting this process two weeks AFTER you'd normally harvest the plant!

What Soma does, is he uses the pollen from these few male flowers to fertilize a SECOND plant earlier in flowering (possibly even a clone of the same one). That gives the selfed se-eds plenty of time to mature.

Lastly, I think I lot of people are concerned that plants grown from se-eds created this way are a lot more likely to "go hermie" than others. That concern gets voiced a lot.

Personally, I do not see any genetic reason for this to be true. Since you're doing a sexual cross of a plant with itself, I think in practice, the offspring plant of this sort of cross should have the SAME basic likelihood of "going hermie" as the mother plant. In other words, if the mother plant doesn't "go hermie" unless its allowed to go past its normal maturity by a few weeks, so should the offspring, and if you were otherwise satisfied with the mother in this regard, I don't think you'd need to be worried about the offspring.

 

[Jogro]

Yes, thats the idea. Just wondering if the seeds created in this manner are worth a hoot.

If the mother plant is good, se-eds created this way should be good.

Note that S1 seeds created this way will NOT necessarily be phenotypically the same as the parent.
That would only be expected to be true if the mother plant was true-breeding.
If the mother is a hybrid, I believe the offspring will show a number of phenotypes.

I have an outdoor plant that I have already harvested. I left a bunch of pocorn and small buds on her and trimmed it down a bit. I was thinking of just letting it go in the ground to see if she will do just that. I read somewhere that they will try and self polinate and produce seeds without another male being around to polinate it. Not sure of the proper terminology. self seeding sounds right.

See above.

First of all, its nearly November now.
Even if your plant did make flowers and self-pollenize, it will take a month (at least) before you'd expect any sort of viability from the se-eds. That takes you into December already.
If you are in a geographic area where there is frost, more likely than not your plant will be dead before any se-eds it created this way could be viable.

You're better off just inspecting the plant regularly, looking for male flowers, and then if you find any, collect the pollen and store it refrigerated for next year. Pollen kept dry, cool, and away from air can remain viable for years.

If you happen to be in a warm place with no frost, I don't think you have much to lose here by trying this. Even if your plant doesn't "rodelize", if it survives the winter, come spring it will probably "re-veg" and with a bit of judicious pruning, you could get a whole second crop from it next year!

 

[Trousers]

When talking about "hermies" it is important to talk about the different kinds of hermaphrodites in cannabis. If a plant grows in a good environment with little or no stress and shows both male and female flowers, that is what I call a real hermaphrodite. It would have both X and Y chromosomes. When you grow a female plant (having only XX chromosomes) and there is stress and it shows male flowers, that is different. While they are both technically hermaphrodites, only the one with both chromosomes will produce real hermaphrodites. 50% of the seeds would be hemaphrodites, 25% would be male and 25% would be female.

The female plant (XX chromosomes) that is stressed and produces male flowers does not have a Y chromosome. The resulting seeds will be feminized.

they will be more prone to hermie since they are selfed seeds. if you let a bud go too long they will produce male flowers and pollinate themselves. preferably you would want to pollinate long before this because by the time the seeds mature from that point your bud willl be shit, but possibly not, it just depends on the strain and scenario.

so if you wanted to produce male flowers long before that in order to obtain seeds there are ways to do it and it is the preferred method of obtaining seeds.

I can not find anything that backs this up and it doesn't make sense in my experience producing feminized seeds. Pretty much every variety of marijuana that is popular right now has been crossed with itself at some point. A "selfed" plant is not more likely to produce hermaphrodites. A selfed female plant will produce female seeds. If that variety is susceptible to stress before you self it, it will be susceptible after you self it. Some varieties do not handle stress as well as others and will produce male flowers.


If you want seeds and want to let a plant go longer to do so, I would collect the pollen and save it for another plant.

 

[polyarcturus]

http://www.cannabisculture.com/node/394

paragraph 7 and 8


but think about it, when you breed a herme plant with another hermie plant different genetics but you know they are both hermie, does that not compound the chances for a hermie? the same would apply with selfed breeding. and even if the plant is not hermie prone and you where able to self it, to would therefore still increase its still low chances.

this self breeding 101 man very basic, dominant traits are compounded thats why self seed are oftne so similar above 80% tp the parent.

 

[Trousers]

I would thank you to not condescend when it is not clear what you are talking about.

What kind of hermaphrodite are you talking about? (breeding 101 indeed) A plant with XY chromosomes or with XX chromosomes? They are completely different.
A plant that does not have a Y chromosome is a female plant. If you stress that plant you will technically have a hermaphrodite but genetically it will not be a hermaphrodite.


I believe my personal results more than their results.
First of all, a stressed female can not pass stress on genetically, it is impossible.
As I said, pretty much every popular variety of weed has been crossed with itself at some point. Why don't they have more tendency to "herm?"

I have not experienced an increased tendency to produce male flowers from selfed seeds. They do not have a Y chromosome. The only way they can "herm" is with environmental stress. I have not seen an increase in susceptibility to environmental stress in selfed seeds. Maybe I am wrong, but my selfed seeds have been 100% female with no increased tendency to "herm."

How are Fem seeds that are widely sold produced?

 

[polyarcturus]

all types of ways and im not really gonna get into but the sad fact is in order to create fem seeds you must breed a hermie, therefore all the seeds may not have th hermie genetics and may be recessive in the rest but it is still there, all fem seed are derived from hermie genetics. what matter is the process or rather path you take to get there some paths will have more herm some will have less, but all fem seed have had the herm trait in their lives.

 

[polyarcturus]

a true and pure female(less than 20% of female population from reg seeds) will never herm, and never produce balls, no matter what. same with a male except a male has to have an extra chromosome(like a polypoloidy) in order to create female organs, but these types of males are even more special than that because if they self seed they can produce both male and female seeds.

 

[Jogro]

a true and pure female(less than 20% of female population from reg seeds) will never herm, and never produce balls, no matter what. same with a male except a male has to have an extra chromosome(like a polypoloidy) in order to create female organs, but these types of males are even more special than that because if they self seed they can produce both male and female seeds.

I do not believe this is all true.

First of all, cannabis is a dioecious plant, meaning the plants have specific genetic genders, with associated X and Y chromosomes. There is no "pure" female; either a plant is GENETICALLY a male, or it is a female, period.

Like every other dioecious plant, every single cannabis plant (male or female) has the ability to create male ("stamenate") flowers hard-wired into its DNA. This is a necessary survival trait, helping to ensure that in the wild solitary or rare female plants have a chance at reproduction. This ability is almost certainly autosomal and probably CANNOT be bred out of plants, because if you negate their ability to create flowers, they won't be able to reproduce.

If you go collect hemp/cannabis plants from the wild, you'll find some male flowers on every female plant, assuming they're old enough.

What this means is that under the right circumstances ANY cannabis line can "go hermie", and by that I mean a genetically female plant making male flowers.

I believe that every classic sativa "landrace" drug cannabis strain will "go hermie" late in flowering, and/or under stress, and this matters because any sativa-type drug strain ultimately derives from the landrace genetics.

Now, in practice, any quality cultivar of modern cannabis specifically bred for seedless indoor growing, should have had the TENDENCY for female plants to make male flowers selectively bred out over many many generations. These lines are not "hermie-proof" so to speak, but they should be highly "hermie-resistant", meaning that a well-bred drug strain shouldn't go hermie under normal circumstances even if the female plants get old, or even under quite a bit of stress. But even these resistant plants can still "go hermie" if you apply gibberellic acid, which is a plant hormone that affects sexual development, or even potentially under the right combination of stressors. Note that this is not a one gene "on/off" thing. The tendency to go hermie is probably controlled by many genes and many factors, meaning you can't do a simple 1-2 generation selection to eliminate it.

Now here is the rub:

If you use pollen from a female plant forced to create male flowers, that pollen **CANNOT** contain genetic information different than the parent plant. Any genetic tendency this pollen has to impart a "hermie trait" **MUST** be derived from the mother. Of course, if you're breeding, the other parent matters too, but since you are imparting no new genetic information from either the mother or feminized "father", the offspring CANNOT have a different tendency to "go hermie" than contained in each parent.

If both parents are inbred hermie-resistant lines, the offspring will be too. If both parents are hermie-prone, so will be the offspring. If only one parent is hermie-resistant, well, now you have a situation where the offspring might be hermie-resistant, or not, or somewhere in between, but ITS offspring may express a wide variety of traits with respect to hermaphroditism.

If you're starting with a plant that *all by itself* goes hermie (ie it "rodelizes"), then of course you're going to pass that trait on to offspring via feminized pollen you create. If you're phobic of hermies, then you shouldn't use pollen created this way for breeding.

And here is the dirty little secret.

Lots of popular modern drug strains (I'm looking at you, virtually every "Kush" strain from CA) come from lines where the hermie-tendency has not been completely extinguished. So lots of these will create hermies under the right conditions, or be particularly hermie-prone if crossed. Since there is so little ACTUAL breeding done anymore (ie where breeders do selections over 6-8 generations to stabilize lines) and since everyone seems to love these unstabilized hybrid strains, a significant part of what's actually being grown out there isn't hermie-resistant.

If you never stress your plants, and you pull them early, you may never see male flowers. But let them go late, or stress them. . .not so good.

The problem, I think, isn't people breeding with lines from feminized ceeds per se, its that the lines themselves aren't stable, leading in some cases to unpredictable traits (including hermaphroditism) in offspring down the line.

 

[Jogro]

in order to create fem seeds you must breed a hermie

But not all "hermies" are created equal, and that's largely the point of that last long post.

You can have a plant that naturally goes "hermie" starting early in flowering. Cross two plants like that, and you'll expect the offspring all to share the same trait. That would be true if you crossed a male and a female, or if you crossed two females using feminized pollen from one of them.

On the other hand, some lines won't go hermie unless you douse a female with gibberelic acid or colloidal silver. Cross two like that, and you'd expect none of the offspring to spontaneously go hermie. Again, that should be true if you crossed a male and a female, or two females using feminized pollen from one.

The point is, the most important consideration isn't the genetic gender of the parent that creates the pollen, its the genetic CONTENT of that parent with respect to its tendency to create male flowers on female plants.

 

[polyarcturus]

i guess well have to agre to disagree it sound or rather looks as if you know what your talking about, but i dont completly agree with everything you say. if a female plant has no hermie gene(by chance) it would have to be grown from regseed and barbecue it has no hermie gene it cannot produce male flowers this means it is a pure female. but you are correct female male genetically xY chromosome i know this, but im not just talking about that.