defoliation question..... anyone familiar with it?

[Alexander Supertramp]

de·fo·li·ate(d

-f

l

-

t

)v. de·fo·li·at·ed, de·fo·li·at·ing, de·fo·li·ates
v.tr.1. To deprive (a plant, tree, or forest) of leaves.
2. To cause the leaves of (a plant, tree, or forest) to fall off, especially by the use of chemicals.

v.intr.To lose foliage.

I have always found one of my favorite strains to be quite funny, Agent Orange, now there is a contradiction in terms...


From the examples shown I do believe selective pruning has been confused with defoliation. Also as UB mentioned the power of suggestion rules when it comes to claimed results....

And I am a 4th generation farmer with an advanced education in agriculture. I get many of the Greenhouse and Farming publications and I have yet to read a single article backing any of Sir Ganjas claims.

 

[Slab]

Spiral pruning of the leaves is a valid technique and has been used in cannabis cultivation with great result.

I wouldn't call it defoliation though. there are times when you can have TOO MUCH LEAF in an indoor garden that it can effect air flow. can of peas penetration is a discussion for another time.

The fact that you grown landrace sativa UB, and don't grow "mutts"

what I can't understand is how grown man can continue to disagree for enjoyment purposes. you guys sure do have wierd way of getting off.

 

[keebo3000]

are you guy not seeing the pictures(proof)? i understand both of your view points and i appreciate them being there. both views should be represented. but how do you argue with some one who posts before and after pics? what do you think contributed most to the sucess then, if it wasnt defoliation. and dont you want to even try in on ONE plant just to see if it is true? what do you have to lose besides pride? i know you get great yields already i've seen the proof. but before george washington carver's innovations people were continaully planting the same plants like corn cycle after cycle which eventually would pull neccasry nutrients out of soil. with experimentation he discoverd that if they were to rotate crops then nutrients would be taken up by some crops and essentials put back by others. thats just one example how being willing to try new things ( at a personal risk) to improve on something. do you advocate FIMing? this is a fairly new technique yes?

 

[Alexander Supertramp]

Its only fair those reading get both sides of the story. Each can take from it what they please. I think thats why its called a forum.

And yes I have tried about every gimmick over the years that has come out. In the end they just do not work improving yield in the way many want to perceive. More likely than not yield decreases.

 

[keebo3000]

de·fo·li·ate(d

-f

l

-

t

)v. de·fo·li·at·ed, de·fo·li·at·ing, de·fo·li·ates
v.tr.1. To deprive (a plant, tree, or forest) of leaves.
2. To cause the leaves of (a plant, tree, or forest) to fall off, especially by the use of chemicals.

v.intr.To lose foliage.



I have always found one of my favorite strains to be quite funny, Agent Orange, now there is a contradiction in terms...


From the examples shown I do believe selective pruning has been confused with defoliation. Also as UB mentioned the power of suggestion rules when it comes to claimed results....

And I am a 4th generation farmer with an advanced education in agriculture. I get many of the Greenhouse and Farming publications and I have yet to read a single article backing any of Sir Ganjas claims.

before columbus, how were the maps represented? remember the internet before bill gates? remember computers before steve jobs? how about UFC before dana white? noone knows everything yet. thats why things in EVERY industry are constantly being improved upon, television, business, grow lights what makes this industry the only steadfast in beliefs that have been around. do you feel everything there is to be discovered has been discovered? i dont. but i am newbie.. but so were all those people i just mentioned..... before carvers Experiments there where no articles on his discovery's... arent you glad there were some open minded people back then? who knows where wolud be if people like unk were in charge

 

[Alexander Supertramp]

I get the Industry publications. Actually I am part of that population. We are making improvements each season. We have sprayers with cameras mounted across the booms reading the color difference in the leaves of the plants as it travels across the field. Adjusting fertilizer application rates on the go. I get the tech side. And once the maps went from flat too round. They are that way now and will remain that way for some time too come....

 

[Slab]

it amazes me how sucessfull the medonite and amish famers are without all the high tech equipment and fancy University degrees.

 

[Alexander Supertramp]

The Mennonites(medonite?)enjoy their driving and the Amish carry cellphones.




I agree, they are keeping up just fine...

 

[Slab]

yes Mennonites, thank you. i think the amish got tired of getting outbid for the jobs, mennonite use mordern conveniences, like bathing and deoderant.

 

[Alexander Supertramp]

As far as the Amish goes its very diverse from community to community, clan leader to clan leader.The one universal is they do not lie. They will hide, but if caught, they dont lie. They are a welcome part of our area. And I know a bunch of Granolas that are not that big soap....

 

[Slab]

I admire a lot about these people also, they will work the avg man under the table.

will have to try some of their "green corn" at some point.

 

[Alexander Supertramp]

There are a few of the lads that grow...and yes they are very hard, skilled workers. Your from the Quaker State, just preaching to the Choir I guess My bad...

 

[Slab]

never minded a good sermon


" take the leaves off ya say? SCHIZEN! you english are nuts"

 

[akula]

are you guy not seeing the pictures(proof)?

Confirmation bias. I presented a example earlier on a different thread.

Basically years ago I declared war on a trench of blackberry bushes a few years ago. I took a chainsaw to them, then rented this machine with a 4 foot disk blade to rip the roots down to 3 feet or so.

It wasnt a few years later that my daughter was back down there picking big lushes blackberries. I could walk right down there and take pictures of the most healthy, fruit producing blackberries you will ever see.

So does this mean that chainsawing healthy BB plants and ripping their roots is a valid technique to growing sweet blackberries?

No it simply means that the blackberry bush is a very prolific plant that can thrive despite being abused. It means that if I had two identical blackberry infestations down there and I abused one of them as I described and left the other to grow, the results could be measured and I doubt anyone would think anything other then the abused plant would be a weaker infestation.

Now that is not to say that there are abuses that can be beneficial. The BB example is quite extreme. Most abuses come with some negative effects that are usually are temporary. Topping for example. The plant has to go through a recovery process prior to any beneficial results being achieved. There is science behind the process and it is used similarly in other sectors of botany along with it being thoroughly testable and verifiable.

That is my litmus test when choosing techniques to use in my own garden. I want to see the science. I want to see the verifiable tests and if they dont exists, I want to see its benefits being used in other botany sectors successfully. So far I have seen none of this. The cannabis growing community is ripe with these kind of voodoo growing techniques. From flavored weed, to extreme flushing to extreme defoliation. And the logic and reasoning behind it is almost always the same, feelings, anecdotal evidence and some company or cannabis celebrity trying to sell their product or brand.

Sorry but I need more then this. I honestly dont care what voodoo quirks you practice in your own garden, I have a few of my own. But if you are going to be spreading these voodoo quirks as legitimate then you need to bring more to the table then some neat pictures of your cannabis. Because cannabis is a prolific plant, that can deal with some serious stresses and still produce a quality harvest in spite of our misguided efforts. And inevitably some newb grower will come along and chop the shit out of his plant to failure or spread this "knowledge" to other botanical communities furthering the ridicule the cannabis growing community already has to endure. I mean how many times do we have to endure the blowback from someone asking what flavor of Kool-Aide is best for their flavored "tomatoes". Its embarrassing.

So I dont have a clear side to this issue, even though I definitely lean to the NAY side. I would love some real evidence for the pro side, but I have yet to see anything of real value(again, your pictures might be impressive, but they are not evidence of anything).

 

[Alexander Supertramp]

Crazy like a Fox...

 

[Alexander Supertramp]

Confirmation bias. I presented a example earlier on a different thread.

Basically years ago I declared war on a trench of blackberry bushes a few years ago. I took a chainsaw to them, then rented this machine with a 4 foot disk blade to rip the roots down to 3 feet or so.

It wasnt a few years later that my daughter was back down there picking big lushes blackberries. I could walk right down there and take pictures of the most healthy, fruit producing blackberries you will ever see.

So does this mean that chainsawing healthy BB plants and ripping their roots is a valid technique to growing sweet blackberries?

No it simply means that the blackberry bush is a very prolific plant that can thrive despite being abused. It means that if I had two identical blackberry infestations down there and I abused one of them as I described and left the other to grow, the results could be measured and I doubt anyone would think anything other then the abused plant would be a weaker infestation.

Now that is not to say that there are abuses that can be beneficial. The BB example is quite extreme. Most abuses come with some negative effects that are usually are temporary. Topping for example. The plant has to go through a recovery process prior to any beneficial results being achieved. There is science behind the process and it is used similarly in other sectors of botany along with it being thoroughly testable and verifiable.

That is my litmus test when choosing techniques to use in my own garden. I want to see the science. I want to see the verifiable tests and if they dont exists, I want to see its benefits being used in other botany sectors successfully. So far I have seen none of this. The cannabis growing community is ripe with these kind of voodoo growing techniques. From flavored weed, to extreme flushing to extreme defoliation. And the logic and reasoning behind it is almost always the same, feelings, anecdotal evidence and some company or cannabis celebrity trying to sell their product or brand.

Sorry but I need more then this. I honestly dont care what voodoo quirks you practice in your own garden, I have a few of my own. But if you are going to be spreading these voodoo quirks as legitimate then you need to bring more to the table then some neat pictures of your cannabis. Because cannabis is a prolific plant, that can deal with some serious stresses and still produce a quality harvest in spite of our misguided efforts. And inevitably some newb grower will come along and chop the shit out of his plant to failure or spread this "knowledge" to other botanical communities furthering the ridicule the cannabis growing community already has to endure. I mean how many times do we have to endure the blowback from someone asking what flavor of Kool-Aide is best for their flavored "tomatoes". Its embarrassing.

So I dont have a clear side to this issue, even though I definitely lean to the NAY side. I would love some real evidence for the pro side, but I have yet to see anything of real value(again, your pictures might be impressive, but they are not evidence of anything).

Like.........

 

[keebo3000]

Confirmation bias. I presented a example earlier on a different thread.

Basically years ago I declared war on a trench of blackberry bushes a few years ago. I took a chainsaw to them, then rented this machine with a 4 foot disk blade to rip the roots down to 3 feet or so.

It wasnt a few years later that my daughter was back down there picking big lushes blackberries. I could walk right down there and take pictures of the most healthy, fruit producing blackberries you will ever see.

So does this mean that chainsawing healthy BB plants and ripping their roots is a valid technique to growing sweet blackberries?

No it simply means that the blackberry bush is a very prolific plant that can thrive despite being abused. It means that if I had two identical blackberry infestations down there and I abused one of them as I described and left the other to grow, the results could be measured and I doubt anyone would think anything other then the abused plant would be a weaker infestation.

Now that is not to say that there are abuses that can be beneficial. The BB example is quite extreme. Most abuses come with some negative effects that are usually are temporary. Topping for example. The plant has to go through a recovery process prior to any beneficial results being achieved. There is science behind the process and it is used similarly in other sectors of botany along with it being thoroughly testable and verifiable.

That is my litmus test when choosing techniques to use in my own garden. I want to see the science. I want to see the verifiable tests and if they dont exists, I want to see its benefits being used in other botany sectors successfully. So far I have seen none of this. The cannabis growing community is ripe with these kind of voodoo growing techniques. From flavored weed, to extreme flushing to extreme defoliation. And the logic and reasoning behind it is almost always the same, feelings, anecdotal evidence and some company or cannabis celebrity trying to sell their product or brand.

Sorry but I need more then this. I honestly dont care what voodoo quirks you practice in your own garden, I have a few of my own. But if you are going to be spreading these voodoo quirks as legitimate then you need to bring more to the table then some neat pictures of your cannabis. Because cannabis is a prolific plant, that can deal with some serious stresses and still produce a quality harvest in spite of our misguided efforts. And inevitably some newb grower will come along and chop the shit out of his plant to failure or spread this "knowledge" to other botanical communities furthering the ridicule the cannabis growing community already has to endure. I mean how many times do we have to endure the blowback from someone asking what flavor of Kool-Aide is best for their flavored "tomatoes". Its embarrassing.

So I dont have a clear side to this issue, even though I definitely lean to the NAY side. I would love some real evidence for the pro side, but I have yet to see anything of real value(again, your pictures might be impressive, but they are not evidence of anything).

stay tuned...

 

[akula]

stay tuned...

Sorry no disrespect here, but randomly chopping off your leaves at the end of veg/beginning of flowering isn't really what I meant by "real value". Its really nothing differnt then my blackberry "experiment". All you really have done here so far is shown that if you chop off your cannabis fan leaves, the plant will spend resources growing them back. I dont think this has ever been in question.

I applaud your effort here to satisfy yourself, but as an experiment to provide any usable data for others....this falls woefully short. You have nothing here to compare. You have no scientific backing on what your trying to accomplish. You have no real data to come out of here with. Again I have to fall back on the fact that the cannabis community is full of these voodoo growing techniques. Thats really good and all, but nothing more then that really. Something to satisfy our feelings.

 

[keebo3000]

Sorry no disrespect here, but randomly chopping off your leaves at the end of veg/beginning of flowering isn't really what I meant by "real value". Its really nothing differnt then my blackberry "experiment". All you really have done here so far is shown that if you chop off your cannabis fan leaves, the plant will spend resources growing them back. I dont think this has ever been in question.

I applaud your effort here to satisfy yourself, but as an experiment to provide any usable data for others....this falls woefully short. You have nothing here to compare. You have no scientific backing on what your trying to accomplish. You have no real data to come out of here with. Again I have to fall back on the fact that the cannabis community is full of these voodoo growing techniques. Thats really good and all, but nothing more then that really. Something to satisfy our feelings.

thanks!! so really this is just an opportunity to pull out that trusty ol' soapbox. others disagree with you. I honestly don't know, hence the experiment. how do you feel about FIMing? more cannabis mumbo jumbo?

 

[keebo3000]

All you really have done here so far.

so far so good!!