The right punishment.

[Zaehet Strife]

So my older brother was found guilty of 1st degree child abuse. He was sentenced Monday to serve 24 years to 50 years in prison, no chance for parole until after 24 years. He is 31 years old. He almost killed a 9 month year old girl, there is no doubt she would have died if his girlfriend at the time wouldn't have found her having a seizure in the crib when she got home from work.

It's weird, when you really think about it, punishment... If you do something wrong a group of people with weapons can take you away to a facility and put you in a cage. Who gets to decide what a proper punishment is? How long you keep someone in that facility full of other people who committed equally if not more horrendous crimes. Rehabilitation in a place like that it seems to me would be very, very unlikely.

I know my brother very well, and i know he has some psychological issues, he very well could be deemed a sociopath. He's been using people his whole life in order to get by. Although there are a lot of bad things that could be said about him, there are also good things too. He's not a bad person in a sense, he just doesn't know how to control his anger. I know that what he did is something unforgivable, and i believe he deserves to be punished and to take responsibility for what he did. I know that he hurt that baby, but i also know from experience that he didn't mean to hurt her that bad... now i know that this is no excuse and im not trying to defend him. I am just having a hard time thinking about what a just and fair punishment would be. He'll be 55 years old by the time he is eligible to apply for parole, and even then there is no promise he'll be set free.

What is your opinion on the sentence, do you think it is too lenient or too harsh? What do you think about our criminal justice system?

 

[joe macclennan]

Tough one bro. Sorry it's your brother and all but if it were my kid I'd probably say it sounds like a pretty appropriate sentence.
Hard to say really without more details and I am not asking for them.

You just don't fuck with kids.

It is pretty messed up tho that people can get 10 years for pot and only twenty for almost killing an infant.

Sounds like you have got your head on straight tho if you can judge your own family that well.

Good luck bud.

 

[tyler.durden]

Wow, Z. That is fucked up. As I read your post I thought about my own brother. We're not that close anymore and he's also got some psychological issues and has always used people to get by. It would freak me the fuck out to hear that he did something like your brother did. In fact, he's got a new baby girl and is just great with her. But something like that could just tear a family apart, I hope that you are all there for each other at this point. The more that I learn about the mind, the more I believe free will is an illusion. And that being the case, proper punishment becomes really difficult to ascertain. No doubt your brother should be kept away from children, and probably society at large. Free will or not, we shouldn't let people harm innocents. As you say, there's very little chance of him becoming 'rehabilitated' in such a zoo, most inmates simply learn how to commit more crimes during their sentences (I hear they call it Criminal U). We know there is a large percentage of inmates that are in for victimless and political 'crimes', and it is not moral that they are locked up. But men that would hurt infants? I almost feel bad for him, his time is certain to be hard when they learn why he is there, not even those animals take kindly to such a thing. Ideally, your brother would be kept away from others while undergoing intense therapy and meds for a while, but the resources aren't there for that type of thing. Given his crime and our current resources, I think taking a large part of a person's life from them is just, even humane...

 

[kpmarine]

So my older brother was found guilty of 1st degree child abuse. He was sentenced Monday to serve 24 years to 50 years in prison, no chance for parole until after 24 years. He is 31 years old. He almost killed a 9 month year old girl, there is no doubt she would have died if his girlfriend at the time wouldn't have found her having a seizure in the crib when she got home from work.

It's weird, when you really think about it, punishment... If you do something wrong a group of people with weapons can take you away to a facility and put you in a cage. Who gets to decide what a proper punishment is? How long you keep someone in that facility full of other people who committed equally if not more horrendous crimes. Rehabilitation in a place like that it seems to me would be very, very unlikely.

I know my brother very well, and i know he has some psychological issues, he very well could be deemed a sociopath. He's been using people his whole life in order to get by. Although there are a lot of bad things that could be said about him, there are also good things too. He's not a bad person in a sense, he just doesn't know how to control his anger. I know that what he did is something unforgivable, and i believe he deserves to be punished and to take responsibility for what he did. I know that he hurt that baby, but i also know from experience that he didn't mean to hurt her that bad... now i know that this is no excuse and im not trying to defend him. I am just having a hard time thinking about what a just and fair punishment would be. He'll be 55 years old by the time he is eligible to apply for parole, and even then there is no promise he'll be set free.

What is your opinion on the sentence, do you think it is too lenient or too harsh? What do you think about our criminal justice system?

There's one sentence that truly disturbed me in this post: "I know that he hurt that baby, but i also know from experience that he didn't mean to hurt her that bad..."
Point being, he meant to cause harm; why does it matter how much? This wasn't a spanking that got out of hand.

I like you Zahet, I really think you're a cool guy. Honestly though, I can say I'd pull the trigger on your brother myself and not lose a wink if it was my kid. It probably makes me a bad guy in my own right, but I know how much abuse and neglect can fuck a kid's head from being on the receiving end.

 

[kpmarine]

The more that I learn about the mind, the more I believe free will is an illusion.

That adds an interesting dimension to things. If there is no free will, then is punishment really useful? Going further, how can we "rehabilitate" someone who has no control of their actions? That seems to be dangerous waters to wade into before we are sure.

 

[NietzscheKeen]

I'm sorry. I still don't really know what to say...

I don't believe in free will. It's not about punishment, but keeping them from causing the harm again but let's not get into a free will debate on Zaehet's thread.

 

[schuylaar]

There's one sentence that truly disturbed me in this post: "I know that he hurt that baby, but i also know from experience that he didn't mean to hurt her that bad..."
Point being, he meant to cause harm; why does it matter how much? This wasn't a spanking that got out of hand.

I like you Zahet, I really think you're a cool guy. Honestly though, I can say I'd pull the trigger on your brother myself and not lose a wink if it was my kid. It probably makes me a bad guy in my own right, but I know how much abuse and neglect can fuck a kid's head from being on the receiving end.

Agreed. I have a problem with that sentence as well..life is about choices. He did the crime now he must do the time and time he will do..he will be loathed by everyone in the prison system..from neo-nazi skinheads to gangs to staff..will be segregated at some point if he's still alive and will more than likely try suicide..I don't feel a thing for an animal like this..sad part is that it took THIS instance for him to be locked up..too little, too late.

As for the time..MANDATORY 24 years/no parole? It must have been pretty heinous..

 

[guy incognito]

If this is true you just put a lot of information about your identity on RIU. I don't give 2 shits about finding your real identity, but I think someone could potentially track you down using this information. I mean how many guys aged [his age] were sentenced to [his sentence] for [his charge] on [conviction day]? That's all public record and someone could track him down easily...then track his brother down.

Just sayin'. You may want to change up the details if you haven't already.

I don't feel too sorry for your brother. Sounds like he did a bad thing. An unforgivable thing. And deserves to be locked up for the rest of his life.

It would be a real shame however for you to get busted for a victimless crime like smoking or growing.

 

[cannabineer]

I concur with Guy. I suggest a thread delete out of simple decency. No reflection on you, Zaehet; please understand. cn

 

[Zaehet Strife]

There's one sentence that truly disturbed me in this post: "I know that he hurt that baby, but i also know from experience that he didn't mean to hurt her that bad..."
Point being, he meant to cause harm; why does it matter how much? This wasn't a spanking that got out of hand.

I like you Zahet, I really think you're a cool guy. Honestly though, I can say I'd pull the trigger on your brother myself and not lose a wink if it was my kid. It probably makes me a bad guy in my own right, but I know how much abuse and neglect can fuck a kid's head from being on the receiving end.

Understandable, which is why i stated that i am not trying to defend him, and that it is still no excuse. I am glad he isn't going to be able to harm or take advantage of anyone outside of the prison system anymore, at least until he is very, very old... for which i am extremely grateful he didn't get away with what he did to that poor child.

 

[Zaehet Strife]

If this is true you just put a lot of information about your identity on RIU. I don't give 2 shits about finding your real identity, but I think someone could potentially track you down using this information. I mean how many guys aged [his age] were sentenced to [his sentence] for [his charge] on [conviction day]? That's all public record and someone could track him down easily...then track his brother down.

Just sayin'. You may want to change up the details if you haven't already.

I don't feel too sorry for your brother. Sounds like he did a bad thing. An unforgivable thing. And deserves to be locked up for the rest of his life.

It would be a real shame however for you to get busted for a victimless crime like smoking or growing.

Your concern is appreciated, but unfounded as i am not doing anything illegal, it doesn't matter who knows who i am, i've made a few friends on here that i facebook with on occasion as well. My picture is all over these forums. I just get on here on the forums every once in a while and add my opinion.

I appreciate the insight fellas, it means a lot.

 

[tyler.durden]

If this is true you just put a lot of information about your identity on RIU. I don't give 2 shits about finding your real identity, but I think someone could potentially track you down using this information. I mean how many guys aged [his age] were sentenced to [his sentence] for [his charge] on [conviction day]? That's all public record and someone could track him down easily...then track his brother down.

Just sayin'. You may want to change up the details if you haven't already.

I don't feel too sorry for your brother. Sounds like he did a bad thing. An unforgivable thing. And deserves to be locked up for the rest of his life.

It would be a real shame however for you to get busted for a victimless crime like smoking or growing.

Z isn't interested in hiding his identity, he has posted pics and video of himself many times on this forum along with many personal details, and I believe he was growing legally in Michigan a while ago. Good looking out, though, Guy...

P.S. Great to see you back on the boards.

Edit: Just saw Z respond with the same info...

 

[guy incognito]

Your concern is appreciated, but unfounded as i am not doing anything illegal, it doesn't matter who knows who i am, i've made a few friends on here that i facebook with on occasion as well. My picture is all over these forums. I just get on here on the forums every once in a while and add my opinion.

I appreciate the insight fellas, it means a lot.

Wait, not everyone here is growing?

 

[Zaehet Strife]

Lol, you look perturbed!

 

[Beefbisquit]

Heya Z,
That is harsh bro, and my heart goes out to you and your family. I have a huge problem with the western judicial system, I think prisons, in the way we use them, are a waste of time and money.

When your brother gets out, he will have been locked up for 20 some odd years, will have gained virtually zero skills while on the inside, and his mentality and attitude will be adjusted to dealing with murderers , rapists, and the like.

I would rather have someone living beside me who has had the opportunity to learn from their mistakes, grow as an individual, and has had the chances to grow skills that are useful on the outside, and have had an opportunity to really think about the crimes they've committed;

AS OPPOSED TO;

A broken, beaten down man, who has very few social skills left, and no manageable skills for the outside.


It seems like a no brainer to me. To paraphrase Einstein; trying to solve a problem with the same type of reasoning that created it is futile. Retributive justice does not work.


Anyways, I don't agree with the sentencing or the means in which the sentence is carried out. He should be punished, but you can't dehumanize someone for years and years, then expect them to be normal when they're out of the system. If anything, he should be forced to face the consequences of his actions as frequently as possible.

You mentioned he has sociopathic tendencies, and this type of justice may not work for people with mental disorders; but most people are not sociopathic, and to treat them as such is horrible. If anything prisons foster the sociopathic mentality of only do what gets you ahead, and fuck other people.

 

[kpmarine]

Heya Z,
That is harsh bro, and my heart goes out to you and your family. I have a huge problem with the western judicial system, I think prisons, in the way we use them, are a waste of time and money.

When your brother gets out, he will have been locked up for 20 some odd years, will have gained virtually zero skills while on the inside, and his mentality and attitude will be adjusted to dealing with murderers , rapists, and the like.

I would rather have someone living beside me who has had the opportunity to learn from their mistakes, grow as an individual, and has had the chances to grow skills that are useful on the outside, and have had an opportunity to really think about the crimes they've committed;

AS OPPOSED TO;

A broken, beaten down man, who has very few social skills left, and no manageable skills for the outside.


It seems like a no brainer to me. To paraphrase Einstein; trying to solve a problem with the same type of reasoning that created it is futile. Retributive justice does not work.


Anyways, I don't agree with the sentencing or the means in which the sentence is carried out. He should be punished, but you can't dehumanize someone for years and years, then expect them to be normal when they're out of the system. If anything, he should be forced to face the consequences of his actions as frequently as possible.

You mentioned he has sociopathic tendencies, and this type of justice may not work for people with mental disorders; but most people are not sociopathic, and to treat them as such is horrible. If anything prisons foster the sociopathic mentality of only do what gets you ahead, and fuck other people.

I do agree that our justice system is definitely not about actually fixing things. It's really just payback, not rehab. On the other hand, I have no clue how to fix it.

 

[direwolf71]

Sorry about your brother. Bottom line is that you don't lay your hands on a defensless child. The sentence is fair I think especially when you consider his psych issues. I have raised 2 kids myself and realize there are moments of frustration but there is nothing a kid could do to make me beat it within inches of his/her life. Its got to be hard to see a family member go down like this. I will agree that the prison system in this country is fucked though and do not believe time should be served for non-violent crimes of any sort.

 

[Dislexicmidget2021]

Im sorry for what youre going through Strife.I wont pretend that I know what this exact situation is like.This was a defenseless child afterall,maybe he got angry at that exact moment and lost control of himself,when your at that age of 31,there must be some sort of self awareness to know when youre going to loose youre cool to the point you are about to do something that is like what he has done and use better judgement to avert committing the abuse.I also understand that he may have had anger issues and others mental issues to boot,yet If i were a juror on this case, I could not sway this to his favor, to be honest.It is my opinion that the punishment you described he was sentenced to,is a bit to steep,he will be losing the best years of his life in that cage,but the fact is he almost killed the child as it is a violent offense,that is very much a grave action in the eyes of a moral perspective and that of the legal aspect as well,I am certain you understand that.Instead of giving him 24 yrs to 50 in prison they should have given him an anger management course with 5 yrs probation and probably a check into mental rehab as well.-Hes had no previous offenses of this nature Im daring to assume here-.Our criminal Justice system is terribly broken,there are far to many people in jail for nonviolent offense,there certainly needs to be a renovation of the system in general.I empathize with you in those circumstances Strife,keep your head up man.

 

[brimck325]

no disrespect to you or your family but i believe death is the only punishment for anyone hurting a child like that.

 

[Beefbisquit]

no disrespect to you or your family but i believe death is the only punishment for anyone hurting a child like that.

Really? It's that easy?

Wow, without knowing anything about the guy, you just state that for doing what he did, he should die.... wow. It just astonishes me at how shallow and incapable of empathy some people are. There's no question what he did was wrong, but flat out 'kill him'? Seriously? I'm almost speechless. That is equally inhumane, if not more inhumane than what he did to the child.

People who think retribution is justice, literally almost make me sick.