DMT... aliens or god? What is the 'presence'
- Thread starter ineverveg
- Start date
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
All that's great, but it's speculation until you or someone can show it actually exist by bringing something back with you.I would imagine this man would disagree...
Terrance McKenna and DMT
The molecule DMT (N,N-Dimethyltryptamine) is a psychoactive chemical that causes intense visions and can induce its users to quickly enter a completely different "environment" that some have likened to an alien or parallel universe. The transition from our world to theirs occurs with no cessation of consciousness or quality of awareness. In this environment, beings often appear who interact with the person who is using DMT. The beings appear to inhabit this parallel realm. The DMT experience has the feel of reality in terms of detail and potential for exploration. The creatures encountered are often identified as being alienlike or elflike. Some of the creatures appear to be three-dimensional. Others appear to lack depth.
Author Terence McKenna has used DMT and feels that, "Right here and now, one quanta away, there is raging a universe of active intelligence that is transhuman, hyperdimensional, and extremely alien... What is driving religious feeling today is a wish for contact with this other universe." The aliens seen while using DMT present themselves "with information that is not drawn from the personal history of the individual."
DMT is also naturally produced in small quantities in the human brain, and it has been hypothesized that DMT is produced in the pineal gland in the brain. The pineal gland appears in the developing human fetus around 49 days after conception. Perhaps an embryo should not be considered human until DMT production commences. Note that "zygotic personhood" (the idea that a fertilized egg is a person) is a recent concept. For example, before 1869, the Catholic church believed that the embryo was not a person until it was 40 days old. Naturally occurring DMT may play a role in near-death experiences and alien-abduction experiences.
Is it possible that the reality exposed to humans by injecting DMT is in some sense a valid reality, on par with our normal reality? Our minds, which evolved to help us run from lions on the African savannas, might not be engineered to see these other realities under normal circumstances.
What is the guarantee that our minds are naturally designed to sense the "true reality"? Perhaps there is no guarantee. If this concept seems weird, consider a far-fetched example. Imagine a creature or phenomena that has been lurking among us since the dawn of evolution. If our ancient ancestors died every time they perceived the phenomena, evolution would favor creatures who did not perceive the creatures or phenomena. One might counter this argument by saying that our modern instruments, such as X-ray machines and cameras, should be able to make the creatures apparent to us, even if our unaided sensorium is not up to the task. Reasoning further, because our instruments have not made these realms apparent to us, the realms must not be real. However, perhaps our traditional instruments and theories are also not up to the task. Or perhaps our interpretation of the instruments' results is incomplete. Perhaps DMT is an instrument.
As a metaphor, consider infrared goggles. A person leans on a tree. At night, we don't see the person. Put the goggles on, and a new reality results a truer reality and we see the man. Similarly, is it possible that our brain is a filter, and the use of DMT is like slipping on infrared goggles, allowing us to perceive a valid reality that is inches away and all around us?
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
Video and no context to go with it? What was the point of me watching some video of guy describing his DMT trip?
ineverveg
Active Member
THE VIDEO WASN'T THE POINT, the question clearly was as you well know, this is the fifth time of asking and you skirt around the answer again, the video was to try and explain it to you because you clearly have not done dmt therefor why join this discussion ?
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
You don't make the rules, Broseph Stalin. Anyone is entitled to join in on this public discussion, and doing DMT is not a requirement for having an opinion on it.
I think it's funny that your silly alien theory can't take the slightest bit of scrutiny or criticism without you bellyaching and acting like a spoiled child yelling at people to leave the thread.... lol
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kpmarine
Well-Known Member
Ah, I thought the video was the point. Well, that was a waste of of several minutes of my life then. I thought I had answered your question with another question several times over: "Why does it matter?". You want me to answer, prove it's relevance to the points I keep disputing. Here's the kickass thing about something that's true: It's true whether or not you've done it. So how much DMT I have done has no bearing on my ability to ask you how the hell the aliens are not constructs of your brain on a chemical. (To which your only response seems to be "How much DMT have you smoked?", I might add.)
ineverveg
Active Member
that is all great! and im going to side with him over you,sorry but he knows more than you obviously!
ineverveg
Active Member
it matters because of the thread title!
it wasn't a waste of time because you now have limited knowledge of a dmt experience!
avoidance [əˈvɔɪdəns]
'the countering of an opponent's plea with fresh evidence'
refraining, dodging, shirking,
ineverveg
Active Member
But your opinion means nothing without experience, to me anyway, yelling? more like trying to highlight the question!
And i put the links and pastes up to educate you that its not just my opinion,its VERY common you retard,scientists have even said it, i linked you to Terrance McKenna , read his works and educate yourself
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
I know who Terrance McKenna is. I have for a long time.
Who are these scientists that think that DMT lets you communicate with aliens? Jumping from DMT to aliens or GOD without having direct evidence to support it is demonstrably unscientific.
"Science is saying in the absence of evidence, we must withhold judgment" - Carl Sagan
There is no reason to believe that when you're tripping on DMT that you're doing anything besides tripping.
ineverveg
Active Member
But you wouldn't know would you!
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
Who are these scientists that think that DMT lets you communicate with aliens?
aknight3
Moderator
dude, dmt has nothing to do with god or aliens, its just a really strong tryptamine/psychadelic, thats all, there is no presense, blasting off is nothing but your brain receiving a HUGE dose of a very strong chemical. its like lsd or anything else....no god. no alien creatures...it seems like your fishing, good luck
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
"In the context of deductive arguments, the appeal to authority is a logical fallacy, though it can be properly used in the context of inductive reasoning. It is deductively fallacious because, while sound deductive arguments are necessarily true, authorities are not necessarily correct about judgments related to their field of expertise. Though reliable authorities are correct in judgments related to their area of expertise more often than laypersons, they can still come to the wrong judgments through error, bias or dishonesty. Thus, the appeal to authority is at best a probabilistic rather than an absolute argument for establishing facts."
Knowledge does not equate to correctness. Ability to detail the facts that support your argument does. All of the stuff you've posted by that guy is, at best, lazy science. It's all what-if and maybe with no concrete evidence.
Edit: Oops, don't want to be accused of plagiarism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence can you provide, to show them that they should value it?
If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you possibly provide them to show them the importance of logic?
[video=youtube_share;pk7jHJRSzhM]http://youtu.be/pk7jHJRSzhM[/video]
If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you possibly provide them to show them the importance of logic?
[video=youtube_share;pk7jHJRSzhM]http://youtu.be/pk7jHJRSzhM[/video]
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
Yes, and there's nothing wrong with avoiding a question that is irrelevant to the claims you are making. Whether or not I have smoked DMT has no bearing on whether everyone meets god or aliens when they're tripping; nor does it make me unable to point out the plethora of more mundane things that it could just as likely be. If you had started this thread as one asking for experiences and acknowledged them as subjective (Instead of claiming DMT let you talk to god), then you wouldn't be getting so many dissenting opinions.
ineverveg
Active Member
Prominently mckenna and strassman
yes and you would know because you're brighter than mckenna and strassman, and you have twice their research background?
whats that got to do with the price of dmt, mckenna and strassman know more than you and you have never had dmt so you have no place to say mckenna and strassman are wrong.
it has a bearing on your opinion because you have never had dmt, its like giving a smoke review on a strain you've never tried
aknight3
Moderator
dude honeslty im not trying to be a dick, your just getting defensive because someone called you out on it, like he said, you just want to hear what you want to hear and the rest of us the opinion dont matter, well then why ask us? go ask 'strassman' what he thinks, im quite confident ive smoked dmt more times then all three of you combined, its neither here nor there. so i dont really give a fuck what any doctor or scientist says, a chemical is a chemical an extra-terrestrial being is that and a god is a god, they are 3 seperate things and 2 of them have nothing to do with smoking dmt. so whats up, u mad bro? if you didnt want to hear your theory for drugs get shot down, this was the wrong place to come, no one gonna hold your hand here. i dont need to be brighter than any one person or have more research than dude mcfuck, none of that matters to me, the drug dmt and its effects does NOT have anythign to do with aliens or god, i mean how could it? logically ask yourself this question and you clearly see how naive the logic is. its basically saying anytime 1 human being smokes deemsters aliens or god get a little pop up notice or an email saying 'hey dude smoked deemsters so fuck him up' i dont understand how anyone could get this confused a chemical is a chemical, dmt is an intense fucking trip and religion is an experience all in itslef and im sure encountering extra-terres. is a exp. all in itself as well, but none of it relates to one another, sorry, i calls em how i sees' em you can get as mad youd like to at me and call me any name you want or think im so stupid, but none of that will change the fact that dmt has nothing to do with a higher power of some sort. lolwow
ineverveg
Active Member
Is that rule just for me then, or do your troll friends not count!