Drop the Knife! Police kill kid in knife attack

[Bombur]

US cops are just pussies. Nothing new here.

Too bad this wasn't in the US, genius.

 

[budlover13]

15 feet is the kill zone with a knife, even if a kid has is.

We were taught the 21' "circle of death". If they are within 21' and have a knife drawn while your firearm is holstered, you likely gonna get stuck.

 

[budlover13]

So they didn't have a couple riot shields to hold him in the bus while they pepper sprayed his ass down or hit him again with the taser? A dozen cops and lets just open up on him. After the first couple shots, was he still coming out the door after them, or was he firing simply because he wasn't dead yet?

Should of dropped the knife, but he shouldn't have been shot to death either.

Citizens in the streets are going to start doing more than just filming this garbage before long......

Once you make the decision to fire, you continue firing until the threat has ceased.

 

[spandy]

Once you make the decision to fire, you continue firing until the threat has ceased.

You mean until they are dead. The dude never came off the bus with his weapon and was never a threat to anything or anyone that wasn't currently on the bus. He was shot for not obeying orders. Then the cop, one assessed shot at a time, put 6 fucking rounds into this dude. Why couldn't he of hit him once or twice, and then have all the other super heroes standing around tazer his ass so they didn't have to kill him. These are suppose to be civilian officers, not a military force. Rules should be very different.

 

[Harrekin]

You mean until they are dead. The dude never came off the bus with his weapon and was never a threat to anything or anyone that wasn't currently on the bus. He was shot for not obeying orders. Then the cop, one assessed shot at a time, put 6 fucking rounds into this dude. Why couldn't he of hit him once or twice, and then have all the other super heroes standing around tazer his ass so they didn't have to kill him. These are suppose to be civilian officers, not a military force. Rules should be very different.

So when a dozen of you armed buddies are standing behind you, it's cool to em

I heard him fire 9 shots...

So 50% more than you'd already considered unacceptable...

 

[echelon1k1]

Once you make the decision to fire, you continue firing until the threat has ceased.

is that what LEO's are taught? because it sounds very much like the military...

If this is the case and it's a stated rule, this is probably why cops can expend an entire clip and not hit a fucking thing or at least not their intended targets...

 

[Bombur]

You mean until they are dead. The dude never came off the bus with his weapon and was never a threat to anything or anyone that wasn't currently on the bus. He was shot for not obeying orders. Then the cop, one assessed shot at a time, put 6 fucking rounds into this dude. Why couldn't he of hit him once or twice, and then have all the other super heroes standing around tazer his ass so they didn't have to kill him. These are suppose to be civilian officers, not a military force. Rules should be very different.

When you make the decision to use your fire arm, you are using it to kill. There is no in between.

 

[budlover13]

is that what LEO's are taught? because it sounds very much like the military...

If this is the case and it's a stated rule, this is probably why cops can expend an entire clip and not hit a fucking thing or at least not their intended targets...

That's what ALL people who have been professionally trained in defensive firearm use have been trained to do. Once you have determined there is an imminent threat and you fire, you don't stop until the threat has ceased. In the case of a guy with a knife, that is a judgement call. If'n he has a gun, he needs to not move. While I never saw the guy get off the bus, I also couldn't see what he was doing inside the bus.

 

[budlover13]

When you make the decision to use your fire arm, you are using it to kill. There is no in between.

You use it to cease the threat. You are NEVER "shooting to kill". That statement is a great way to get arrested for homicide.

 

[Harrekin]

That's what ALL people who have been professionally trained in defensive firearm use have been trained to do. Once you have determined there is an imminent threat and you fire, you don't stop until the threat has ceased. In the case of a guy with a knife, that is a judgement call. If'n he has a gun, he needs to not move. While I never saw the guy get off the bus, I also couldn't see what he was doing inside the bus.

I bet he was just trying to make a sandwich...

 

[Bombur]

You use it to cease the threat. You are NEVER "shooting to kill". That statement is a great way to get arrested for homicide.

We're not in court, I'm being realistic about what it means to "shoot until the threat has ceased".

 

[echelon1k1]

That's what ALL people who have been professionally trained in defensive firearm use have been trained to do. Once you have determined there is an imminent threat and you fire, you don't stop until the threat has ceased. In the case of a guy with a knife, that is a judgement call. If'n he has a gun, he needs to not move. While I never saw the guy get off the bus, I also couldn't see what he was doing inside the bus.

I can understand an POI with a firearm, but an offender with a knife i would think they'd want to expend every and all options before going lethal... JMO

Unfortunantely, most police, IMO are not proficient pistol marksmen, especially when it is such a perishable skill... I think it comes down to time and money...

 

[Harrekin]

I can understand an POI with a firearm, but an offender with a knife i would think they'd want to expend every and all options before going lethal... JMO

Unfortunantely, most police, IMO are not proficient pistol marksmen, especially when it is such a perishable skill... I think it comes down to time and money...

Or a strong distaste for public sandwich making?

So you can legally carry a gun...but a knife gets you shot?

9 fucking times?

 

[budlover13]

We're not in court, I'm being realistic about what it means to "shoot until the threat has ceased".

In reality you are correct. Not that their death is your ultimate goal, it is self-preservation. But that generally means that someone is gonna die.

 

[budlover13]

I can understand an POI with a firearm, but an offender with a knife i would think they'd want to expend every and all options before going lethal... JMO

Unfortunantely, most police, IMO are not proficient pistol marksmen, especially when it is such a perishable skill... I think it comes down to time and money...

Partially time but rarely money. Departments have training budgets for stuff like that (if they haven't been cut). It is definitely a skill that will get rusty without using it. You must also take into account the whole adrenaline thing. There are MANY people who can shoot perfect runs when the adrenaline isn't pumping. That adrenaline hits your system though and fine motor control is out the window in most cases.

 

[Harrekin]

In reality you are correct. Not that their death is your ultimate goal, it is self-preservation. But that generally means that someone is gonna die.

Considering they tasered him AFTER they shot him 9 times (thus confirming they had one on scene)...and considering the barbs from a taser have about a 4-5 arm length range(ie. much longer than a knife)...couldn't they just have tasered him FIRST?

Anyone that's been tasered knows you drop like a sack of shit...he'd have been no threat, except possibly to himself when falling (his safety doesn't seem to have been a concern anyway).

So what's the deal?

 

[echelon1k1]

Or a strong distaste for public sandwich making?

So you can legally carry a gun...but a knife gets you shot?

9 fucking times?

so we can add public sandwich making to the list, unauthorised use of cold cuts and condiments and not making enough for everyone... LOL

 

[echelon1k1]

Partially time but rarely money. Departments have training budgets for stuff like that (if they haven't been cut). It is definitely a skill that will get rusty without using it. You must also take into account the whole adrenaline thing. There are MANY people who can shoot perfect runs when the adrenaline isn't pumping. That adrenaline hits your system though and fine motor control is out the window in most cases.

I agree 100%, i would also add that above 145 BPM you lose all fine motor skills, so coupled with adrenalin, it can be very overwhelming...

 

[Harrekin]

so we can add public sandwich making to the list, unauthorised use of cold cuts and condiments and not making enough for everyone... LOL

He probably had serious munchies and wasn't gonna stop making his sandwich "for no pigs"...

I hope he was white, just before some American turns this into a racial thing...

 

[budlover13]

Considering they tasered him AFTER they shot him 9 times (thus confirming they had one on scene)...and considering the barbs from a taser have about a 4-5 arm length range(ie. much longer than a knife)...couldn't they just have tasered him FIRST?

Anyone that's been tasered knows you drop like a sack of shit...he'd have been no threat, except possibly to himself when falling (his safety doesn't seem to have been a concern anyway).

So what's the deal?

Tasering after shooting is just dumb and an obvious sign that said officer doesn't understand use of force escalation. 4-5 armlengths isn't a safe distance from someone wielding a knife and a taser isn't ALWAYS effective. They SHOULD have had an officer with a taser and two with firearms drawn. Hit the dude with a taser and if he don't immediately drop, open up with a firearm. Then again, we are all Monday morning quarterbacking on this one as we weren't there.