defoliation? yes/no and techniques

[Uncle Ben]

i hate to say it, but it's clear as day that the bottoms are getting plenty of light. also doesn't look like too many or any leaves are blocking light penetration, dumb ass.

Really, so you've witnessed first hand my indoor gardens?

 

[Fresh 2 De@th]

Really, so you've witnessed first hand my indoor gardens?

no, just your proof that you posted multiple times for us to see. i guess you told us. as of now, from those last set of pics, it you seems like you're your own worst enemy. from those set of pics, i couldn't figure out who side you were on, yours are ours.

and since you bought the question up, have you witnessed first hand anybody else's indoor garden to assume incredulous statements of positive effects from defoliating?

 

[Uncle Ben]

.....where I will remove a some nodes and fan leaves to give me the same amount of leaves and nodes, you have on your branchy productive sprawling plants, its just I can choice where the nodes and fan leaves are

Genuinedumbnuts, in the context given, what does this mean to you? (Hint - it has no relevance to me topping above the 2nd node.)

It doesn't make a lick of sense. Perhaps I'm thick. Some one care to explain to me WTF this guy was trying to convey? I'm stumped LOL.

 

[jacksthc]

What?

Has RIU become the internet magnet for retards?

wow look I can grow long thick buds too, just give it up

 

[Uncle Ben]

Bah bye. Time to make a dinner salad with some wonder garden fresh spinach leaves I just plucked. They all came from the lower part of the plant ya know.

 

[jacksthc]

Bah bye. Time to make a dinner salad with some wonder garden fresh spinach leaves I just plucked. They all came from the lower part the plant ya know.

enjoy my friend and take your time

 

[genuity]

Genuinedumbnuts, in the context given, what does this mean to you? (Hint - it has no relevance to me topping above the 2nd node.)

It doesn't make a lick of sense. Perhaps I'm thick. Some one care to explain to me WTF this guy was trying to convey? I'm stumped LOL.

it is written a lil wrong,but I think he was saying he will get the same outcome....but he will chime in.

 

[jacksthc]

HeartlandHank said

"Well, I have only selected branchy productive sprawling plants for some time now. So, I'm not real experienced with short bushy super leafy plants at this time... So, I won't tell you I know better on how to grow them. Cause I've sort of avoided them for a while.

I see the short and bushy thing as a bad trait for indoor/wet, personally. If I grew one indoor I would plan for extra air movement, air circulation and uber cleanliness.

I wouldn't combat these traits and environmental issues with defol, because, every leaf I pull off leaves an open wound to invite in PM, pythium, etc.. and, it does not address the real issue. Inadequate air flow, for the variety you chose to grow.

That said, I would improve my air exchange/circulation and/or choose a variety that is less needy"

and I was saying I will remove some nodes and fan leaves to give me the same amount of leaves and nodes as you have on your branchy productive sprawling plants, just give me more control over the canopy and the way the plant grows

 

[HeartlandHank]

wow look I can grow long thick buds too, just give it up

View attachment 2830613

To be honest though.. these don't look much less branchy than what I work with..
I mean, I have come across some very tight growth with high leaf to calyx.. That just looks like a pretty standard hybrid to me.

It looks about like these plants. No defoliating. And see the large fan leaves coming out of the cola... those are leaves that I see defoliators remove well before this point.. Some of the BEST leaves (I would think), right up close to the bulb, catching rays.. the buds beneath them did just fine. Don't underestimate healthy vigorous growth from a weed plant. It's a tough vigorous plant.

Those low down buds look alright, right? No defoliating..

I don't pack the plants in like most though... By my standards... that's crowding.. Ime, crowding plants doesn't increase yields. Getting a bigger light increases yields.. (assuming all other pieces are there) <co2, nutes, etc>


View attachment 2830812View attachment 2830813View attachment 2830814View attachment 2830815

This plant, I would say is less stout and leafy than what you posted..
View attachment 2830816

I just included that last one cause it's so fucking beautiful..

 

[HeartlandHank]

By the way... in that ^^. The pics show plants with no other plants around them... that is because i removed plants from the tent to take that picture.... You can see in my journal that 7 plants went in that tent. Normally, i would do 8 but this was not a production grow... it was a mother selection deal.

 

[Fresh 2 De@th]

HLH, your leaf to calyx ratio looks much lower than the plant that Genuity and Jack posted. this is where i think most get confused at. defoliating is at different times (mainly in veg) and here and there throughout flower (as one sees fit).
from the looks of things, i don't see how light doesn't penetrate the canopy from the plants that your posting, hence the reason for not wanting or needing to defoliate.

very nice pics too, appreciate you for posting them.

 

[DLOPEZ1420]

Day 41 flowering after defoliation..

It works for me.. just gotta know when and how to do it..

Peace.

 

[Dboi87]

For one, if you normally take pictures you would know that UBs plants are illuminated because of flash. It says nothing of how much light the lower buds get during their normal growth cycle.

Second, topping and defoliating, while both remove parts of the plant, are totally different in practice and purpose. When I top a plant it is early in the plants life providing ample time for recovery (minimal if ANY stress. Evident in vigorous new growth the very next day). More importantly it serves the purpose of creating a distinct and practical plant structure. Four equal main colas that spread apart as the plant matures for improved circulation and light penetration. It is predictable and practical.

While some of you seem to have some sort of rationale, most have completely inconsistent and Irrational reasons. Trust me, if only one person could explain why and how it works I'd try it.

Honestly I kinda wantvit to be true because I love to experiment. So far though I've yet to read any posts that are convincing.

Hard to beat Tio and Hank's solid botanical knowledge with "it works for me" or just a picture that shows mature buds. I've had buddies grow buds using incandescent bulbs. That is not proof that incandescent is the way to go.

Just my thoughts guys. Honestly I want to be convinced. Being around for some sort of botanical breakthrough would be dope. But I have yet to see proof. That's all I'm saying.

 

[HeartlandHank]

HLH, your leaf to calyx ratio looks much lower than the plant that Genuity and Jack posted. this is where i think most get confused at. defoliating is at different times (mainly in veg) and here and there throughout flower (as one sees fit).
from the looks of things, i don't see how light doesn't penetrate the canopy from the plants that your posting, hence the reason for not wanting or needing to defoliate.

very nice pics too, appreciate you for posting them.

I guess. I mean, all of the defoliators are using genetics with higher leaf to calyx than I am? And that's the difference?

Honestly, I think what you are seeing as "low leaf to calyx" is just a plant that is kicking ass in flower due to having super healthy and plentiful leaves.. the leaves that drive bud production... that's my opinion.
I think perception plays a big part in all of this.

Give the plants some room and they will be a little more branchy/spread.
I'm not a defoliator, I'm not gonna be convinced. I'm pretty sure the defoliators feel the same way.

Even with the stout and leafy stuff. I mean, I have grown them before.. I just usually don't keep them. Deep Chunk, I grew for several years. I don't think it gets more bushy leafy than that plant.
One of my Sweet Tooth 1.1 was super stout. I grew it a couple years. Never defoliated.

 

[HeartlandHank]

Ok, ok... how about my S1 Green Crack plant... Can this one sit in the same conversation as the defoliators plants?
If you ask me.. that's more leafy than Jack's plant. No?

 

[lilroach]

As far as bud porn goes...the past few pages are wet-dreams for many of us....regardless of how they were grown.

I moderate a political forum and there's less disagreement between conservatives and liberals than this entire defoliate vs. leave 'em the fuck alone debate.

I've spent probably too long of a time reading this debate and while I've seen some decent plants that were defoliated, I think that Uncle Ben's explanation of how a plant shares the energy from all the leaves, and more is always better....makes much more sense that pulling the plant's solar panels off to let light go down.....to what...the lower buds that don't absorb light energy anywhere near what the fan leaves that were taken off were providing.

I've got some very bushy Mataro Blue going right now and the bottom leaves and branches are growing well without direct lighting on them. If Uncle Ben was wrong, the lower leaves would have died weeks ago.

The white powder is my anti-thrips shit.....I hate thrips.

This plant is seven+ weeks old.

Watering this plant is a pain in the ass though.

 

[GreenSanta]

The only time I defoliate is to improve airflow. More Leaves = More photosynthesis !! DUH!!

Btw lilroach u have a bad case of powdery mildew and u should defoliate and spray a mixture of lemon juice or a horsetail tea. WASH THIS PM AND PREVENT IT FROM COMING BACK!! hehe good luck

 

[lilroach]

The only time I defoliate is to improve airflow. More Leaves = More photosynthesis !! DUH!!

Btw lilroach u have a bad case of powdery mildew and u should defoliate and spray a mixture of lemon juice or a horsetail tea. WASH THIS PM AND PREVENT IT FROM COMING BACK!! hehe good luck

That's not mildew....it's Bonide "Eight" .....an anti-thrip treatment. Did I mention I hate thrips yet?

 

[jacksthc]

To be honest though.. these don't look much less branchy than what I work with..
I mean, I have come across some very tight growth with high leaf to calyx.. That just looks like a pretty standard hybrid to me.

It looks about like these plants. No defoliating. And see the large fan leaves coming out of the cola... those are leaves that I see defoliators remove well before this point.. Some of the BEST leaves (I would think), right up close to the bulb, catching rays.. the buds beneath them did just fine. Don't underestimate healthy vigorous growth from a weed plant. It's a tough vigorous plant.

Those low down buds look alright, right? No defoliating..

I don't pack the plants in like most though... By my standards... that's crowding.. Ime, crowding plants doesn't increase yields. Getting a bigger light increases yields.. (assuming all other pieces are there) <co2, nutes, etc>


View attachment 2830812View attachment 2830813View attachment 2830814View attachment 2830815

This plant, I would say is less stout and leafy than what you posted..
View attachment 2830816View attachment 2830817

I just included that last one cause it's so fucking beautiful..

yeh ub would love the healthy green leaves lol


one of the main reason I believe defoliation works, take a close look at this plant, all the good qualty bud is at the top half of the plant with only the odd fan leave

if your buds don't need direct light, they would be an even amount of bud on all parts of the plant as fan leaves help all parts of the plant.

plants don't grow this way, all the good dank bud is where the light is, some growers use side light to help lower buds get ripe/dank and some grower do a double harvest to get lower buds dank


why does the best buds always grow where the light is ?

 

[chuck estevez]

yeh ub would love the healthy green leaves lol


one of the main reason I believe defoliation works, take a close look at this plant, all the good qualty bud is at the top half of the plant with only the odd fan leave

if your buds don't need direct light, they would be an even amount of bud on all parts of the plant as fan leaves help all parts of the plant.

plants don't grow this way, all the good dank bud is where the light is, some growers use side light to help lower buds get ripe/dank and some grower do a double harvest to get lower buds dank


why does the best buds always grow where the light is ?

Auxins are the plant hormones which help in maintaining apical dominance in plant. This hormone helps in stem elongation in a plant by stopping lateral buds to grow. Auxins are always produced in the root, shoot and bud tip. Lateral buds remain inactive because of auxins and apical buds grow fast. So, if the apex or tip of a plant is taken out or cut, no auxin is produced in that plant after that for some time and this promotes lateral growth of the plant.