President Musk

Psyclops said:
And the unborn child? Who speaks for that life?
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We can have a philosophical conversation about what constituts life if you wish. But all legal and social practices dictate that life begins at birth. Go look at any government ID and show me where it says date of conception. I challenge you to find one country that counts a fetus a populat in their censes.
While this is an emotional topic, and i can rationalize almost all points of view, the cold facts of reality dictate my opinions on the topic that simply boils down to the wellbeing of the mother must be prioritized of that of the fetus.
Inherent risk
Child birth is the most dangerous thing most women will do in their lifetime, complications of pregnancy/delivery is the leading cause of death among women all-time. How to manage this risk should be determined by individuals at the advice of medical professionals and not dictated by broad blanked government policies.

Harm reduction
A mother who scraps a pregnancy can try again to bring new life into the world, while a motherless child is statistically fucked. no disrespect intended to the many exceptions on this board. Let us also consider the needs of others who may be attached to said lady (spouse parents other children)

Business equation
A grown women is a realized asset to society and a child is an undeveloped investment. You don't allow your investments to destroy your assets.
 
VaSmile said:
We can have a philosophical conversation about what constituts life if you wish. But all legal and social practices dictate that life begins at birth. Go look at any government ID and show me where it says date of conception. I challenge you to find one country that counts a fetus a populat in their censes.
While this is an emotional topic, and i can rationalize almost all points of view, the cold facts of reality dictate my opinions on the topic that simply boils down to the wellbeing of the mother must be prioritized of that of the fetus.
Inherent risk
Child birth is the most dangerous thing most women will do in their lifetime, complications of pregnancy/delivery is the leading cause of death among women all-time. How to manage this risk should be determined by individuals at the advice of medical professionals and not dictated by broad blanked government policies.

Harm reduction
A mother who scraps a pregnancy can try again to bring new life into the world, while a motherless child is statistically fucked. no disrespect intended to the many exceptions on this board. Let us also consider the needs of others who may be attached to said lady (spouse parents other children)

Business equation
A grown women is a realized asset to society and a child is an undeveloped investment. You don't allow your investments to destroy your assets.
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Yes, I do
Life is much more sacred then that.
It's simple really, don't want children take appropriate steps to avoid pregnancy. Or are adult humans not capable of controlling their base instincts enough to use a contraceptive or abstain?
 
doublejj said:
You don't have to believe me...go research what the rest of the freeworld thinks of America today. trump has turned the US into a pariha.
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I'm going to relate to you an experience i had in 1982 in a city called Phohang in N. Korea, I was there to train some Korean Rangers in mountain warfare, they wished to take a communal break every 30 minutes, this of course was not in the training plan and they became angry and agitated with myself and a container.
They told us: Yankee go home, we don't want you here Joe.
We looked at each other and said okay, we will go home. Turned and started are way back down the mountain. The whole way we where followed by said Korean Marines and begged us not to leave. Friendey they said, we like you Joe, Please stay.
My point is they never like us because we are big and powerful, but they need us and know it.
 
Psyclops said:
Yes, I do
Life is much more sacred then that.
It's simple really, don't want children take appropriate steps to avoid pregnancy. Or are adult humans not capable of controlling their base instincts enough to use a contraceptive or abstain?
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Sex Ed in this country is a joke. The foster system in this contry is a joke. Sex is a fundamental part of life. Rape and SA are pretty prominent issues. We have a religion problem in the USA so many parents teach their kids little or wrong things about sex.
I do agree that cosmetic abortion(I don't want/can't care for a child) are unethical. It's difficult to make a ethical assessment of comparing a life for a life, I have a very utilitarian view of morality so it's a simple question. What outcome is least bad for the least people? I have a fairly natural view of the world, most seeds never germinate, most life dies exceptionally young. We have fewer children on average because in the past 150 years a person's chance of serving to 20 has quadrupled. I like this population control/evolutionary strategy of few offspring higher success rate, and think we should continue to exasperated it.

In a world where our foster system was properly funded and not engulfed with both fraud and abuse, I would support requiring medical justification for the procedure. But only with a very low bar.


I'll concede the argument of life begins at birth. And agree that every life is precious. No mater what choice anyone makes in the mater they are making a choice to value one life over the other, there is no way to do that without moral ambiguity and I can't be comfortable with any government making that choice in such broad fashion.
 
VaSmile said:
Sex Ed in this country is a joke. The foster system in this contry is a joke. Sex is a fundamental part of life. Rape and SA are pretty prominent issues. We have a religion problem in the USA so many parents teach their kids little or wrong things about sex.
I do agree that cosmetic abortion(I don't want/can't care for a child) are unethical. It's difficult to make a ethical assessment of comparing a life for a life, I have a very utilitarian view of morality so it's a simple question. What outcome is least bad for the least people? I have a fairly natural view of the world, most seeds never germinate, most life dies exceptionally young. We have fewer children on average because in the past 150 years a person's chance of serving to 20 has quadrupled. I like this population control/evolutionary strategy of few offspring higher success rate, and think we should continue to exasperated it.

In a world where our foster system was properly funded and not engulfed with both fraud and abuse, I would support requiring medical justification for the procedure. But only with a very low bar.


I'll concede the argument of life begins at birth. And agree that every life is precious. No mater what choice anyone makes in the mater they are making a choice to value one life over the other, there is no way to do that without moral ambiguity and I can't be comfortable with any government making that choice in such broad fashion.
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In my estimation life begins at conception. After once conceived a woman is pregnant. No system is or will ever be perfect as long as men/women are involved in the process. Abortion was never and should never be a form of population control.
You are judging a life as worthless if it doesn't start with your predefined parameters. I reject that thinking.
 
Psyclops said:
In my estimation life begins at conception. After once conceived a woman is pregnant. No system is or will ever be perfect as long as men/women are involved in the process. Abortion was never and should never be a form of population control.
You are judging a life as worthless if it doesn't start with your predefined parameters. I reject that thinking.
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You twist my words. I never stated that any life was worthless. Quite the opposite, if anything my base line was all life is equally precious. I said the loss of a fetus is exponentially less damaging the the loss of a active community member. I also clearly stated that cosmetic abortion is unethical. That only leave the issue of medical circumstances. In those situations there is no ethically right awnser because wether the decision is to abort or to proceed you are placing the wellbeing of one life over the other. I did not state that abortion should be used as a ready method of population control or contraceptive.
I stated that mammals reproduce at an far reduced rate compared to other life forms then care for their young so a high percentage of them survive to adulthood. This has been an successful development and we should use our scientific understanding to support our basic nature.
What I'm implying is we should not take unnecessary risk.
 
VaSmile said:
You twist my words. I never stated that any life was worthless. Quite the opposite, if anything my base line was all life is equally precious. I said the loss of a fetus is exponentially less damaging the the loss of a active community member. I also clearly stated that cosmetic abortion is unethical. That only leave the issue of medical circumstances. In those situations there is no ethically right awnser because wether the decision is to abort or to proceed you are placing the wellbeing of one life over the other. I did not state that abortion should be used as a ready method of population control or contraceptive.
I stated that mammals reproduce at an far reduced rate compared to other life forms then care for their young so a high percentage of them survive to adulthood. This has been an successful development and we should use our scientific understanding to support our basic nature.
What I'm implying is we should not take unnecessary risk.
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if republicans really care about kids would they continually cancel school lunch funding?
 

Trump freezes $1 billion in food aid given to local schools and food banks to help low-income families​

The Trump administration reportedly said it had determined this funding ‘no longer effectuates agency priorities
www.independent.co.uk

Trump freezes $1 billion in food aid given to local schools and food banks

The Trump administration reportedly said it had determined this funding ‘no longer effectuates agency priorities and that termination of the award is appropriate’
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk

 
VaSmile said:
You twist my words. I never stated that any life was worthless. Quite the opposite, if anything my base line was all life is equally precious. I said the loss of a fetus is exponentially less damaging the the loss of a active community member. I also clearly stated that cosmetic abortion is unethical. That only leave the issue of medical circumstances. In those situations there is no ethically right awnser because wether the decision is to abort or to proceed you are placing the wellbeing of one life over the other. I did not state that abortion should be used as a ready method of population control or contraceptive.
I stated that mammals reproduce at an far reduced rate compared to other life forms then care for their young so a high percentage of them survive to adulthood. This has been an successful development and we should use our scientific understanding to support our basic nature.
What I'm implying is we should not take unnecessary risk.
Click to expand...
Yes, actually you did.

"Harm reduction
A mother who scraps a pregnancy can try again to bring new life into the world, while a motherless child is statistically fucked. no disrespect intended to the many exceptions on this board. Let us also consider the needs of others who may be attached to said lady (spouse parents other children)"
 
Psyclops said:
Yes, actually you did.

"Harm reduction
A mother who scraps a pregnancy can try again to bring new life into the world, while a motherless child is statistically fucked. no disrespect intended to the many exceptions on this board. Let us also consider the needs of others who may be attached to said lady (spouse parents other children)"
Click to expand...
Simple math.
What the impact of an abortion
1 life lost and 1 family in grief.
What's the impact of the loss of the mother
1 life lost, an entire community in grief, at least 1 childless mother, 1 widower, a community and economic resorce is lost.
Do we loss a life that will impact a handful of others or the one that will impact 100s of others?
We do not exist in a vacuum, we live in a society. Every decision we make has impacts far beyond our selfs.
It's not that one life is more then the other side by side. It is chooseing what is best for the many over what is best for the few.
 
Lets face it Elon Musk lost more net wealth in the last couple of months than all the US aid (military and civil) that the US has given to Ukraine during 3 years. This says a lot of both him, Biden and Trump. Think whatever you like about his politics but he sure as hell is very efficient at losing money and working against his own bottom line.
In any other scenario he would have been told "youre fired!".
And yet hes still the richest man i world. Its strange world were living in.
 
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