1550 watts of cfl s

bobtokes

Well-Known Member
ive just bought a job lot of envirolites 2 x 200w 2 x 125w veg 2 x 200w 4 x 125w flowering ive got a 6 lamp reflector 750mm x 1200mm and plan to build a grow box 1.2 sq mtrs x1.3 mtrs high would 650 watts of veg light be enough for that area and how many plants would it hold also how would 650w of cfls compare to a 400w hps. this will be my first grow any advice or answers to these questions would be great i will be doing a grow journal if anyone is intrested when ive got every thing sorted cheers folks.
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
ive got a 6 lamp reflector 750mm x 1200mm and plan to build a grow box 1.2 sq mtrs x1.3 mtrs high would 650 watts of veg light be enough for that area and how many plants would it hold also how would 650w of cfls compare to a 400w hps.
First of all, comparing a watt's worth of CFL vs a watt's worth of HPS is comparing apples and oranges. Fluorescents deliver low intensity light; HPS delivers high intensity. It is the intensity of light which drives photosynthesis.

Luminous intensity aka brightness (measured in lumens or lumens per sq metre aka 'lux') from multiple light sources does not 'add.' Putting a dim lamp next to another dim lamp makes neither lamp brighter.

Since the lumen figure is a measure of brightness, a pair of 1500 lumen CFLs covering the same area is not applying 3000 lumens, rather 1500. It could be 10,000 x 1500lm CFLs and it would still be 1500lm. None of the lamps gets brighter by virtue of being next to one another.

While it's less of an issue, HPS is also much more efficient in lumens per watt than CFL- a bit immaterial as there's no such thing as a CFL that is comparable to an HPS in luminous output.

Plants flowered with fluoros will deliver fluffy, thin buds. Plants vegged with them will grow quite slowly compared to those grown with HID light. Fluoros are great for clones and seedlings, which don't need to be pounded with light.

You're a lot smarter to jump on the forum first and ask what you should use instead of buying a bunch of stuff and later asking if it will work.

See about getting your money back for your huge batch of of CFLs.

Your planned grow box dimensions are going to give you grief. You'll need to make it a good bit taller than 1300mm, closer to 2m is more functional. Even if you grow SoG style, flowering clones right after they set root, which keeps plants rather short, they will be about 1m tall by the end of flowering with a 400HPS.

For 1.2m^2, you could use a 600HPS and could flower about 12-13 SoG pruned plants. You could also use a 400 and flower 8-10 in the same style. Either a 400 or 600HPS would kick the pants off anything you can do with CFLs- and considering you were OK with 650W, are both within your scope for power consumption.
 
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ThunderLips

Well-Known Member
Sounds like he knows what hes talkin about huh?
Looks like you found the right place my friend.
Check out the grow faq as well, under lighting. It has a great and fairly easy to understand explanation about growing with CFLs.
 

RandyRocket

Well-Known Member
I'm still checking but what I've learned:

1 27w = 1300 lumens @ 5500k about 48 lumens/watt

1 400w mh = 30000 lumens about 75 lumens/watt

and hps are better.

The start up cost is way less for cfl's Home depot $6.00ish for 27w and Target is $4.00ish. also little heat.

For now I'm using 10 27watt bulbs. I'll add 5 more in about a week.
 
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Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Home depot $6.00ish for 27w and Target is $4.00ish. also little heat.

For now I'm using 10 27watt bulbs. I'll add 5 more in about a week.
OK, say you buy 15 CFLs at $4.00/ea. $60. You've surely got $5 per lamp in a fixture or socket. Sum $135.

Your 27W flos deliver a sum total of 1300 lumens- for all of them. Light at 1300lm will cause spindly growth in veg and thin, fluffy buds in flower.

HTG is a popular online supplier. You can get a 400HPS lamp tube, ballast, socket & reflector from them for $119.

The 1300lm from the 15 x 27W CFLs will require 405 watts. A 400 HPS will deliver about 55,000 lumens and will draw about 450-460W from the wall socket. The operating cost will be nearly identical. A 400HPS will produce solid, dense, heavy buds. A 400 can easily punch out 3-4oz every 2 weeks in a rotating SoG op.

CFLs are false economy. Poorer results for more money.
 
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bobtokes

Well-Known Member
al b. fuct cheers for the reply i feel like ive just had a b@ll@cking haha I should have worded my question differently as i was thinking more along the lines of comparing the results of a grow using the different lights but u answered that anyway cheers I have only been on the net 3 weeks i got my lights 5 weeks ago i found this site 2weeks ago if id had the information thats on this site 5weeks ago i would have made a different choice.. have u read any of the spec on envirolites if u havent could u checkout ebay envirogrolites or envirogrowlites and tell me what u think of their claims. I will be raising the hieght of my cabinet to 1800mm cheers for all info
 

bobtokes

Well-Known Member
al b. fuct cheers for the reply i feel like ive just had a b@ll@cking haha I should have worded my question differently as i was thinking more along the lines of comparing the results of a grow using the different lights but u answered that anyway cheers I have only been on the net 3 weeks i got my lights 5 weeks ago i found this site 2weeks ago if id had the information thats on this site 5weeks ago i would have made a different choice.. have u read any of the spec on envirolites if u havent could u checkout ebay envirogrolites or envirogrowlites and tell me what u think of their claims. I will be raising the hieght of my cabinet to 1800mm cheers for all info
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
al b. fuct cheers for the reply i feel like ive just had a b@ll@cking haha
Well, sorry about that, didn't mean to shoot holes in you, rather the false economy of CFL vs an appropriately sized HPS or MH for veg & flower.

have u read any of the spec on envirolites if u havent could u checkout ebay envirogrolites or envirogrowlites and tell me what u think of their claims.
They're fluorescents, albeit with a fancy brand name. They'll act like any other fluorescent. That's all you or I need to know. If they make any claims at all that their lamps compare in any way to HID lighting, your bullshit detector should be sounding.

1800mm will give you a lot more wiggle room for lighting, watering system and a place for warm air to go before the exhaust blower pulls it out. Good move.
 

bobtokes

Well-Known Member
Sounds like he knows what hes talkin about huh?
Looks like you found the right place my friend.
Check out the grow faq as well, under lighting. It has a great and fairly easy to understand explanation about growing with CFLs.
cheers for the reply ive checked out the grow faq masses of information i think he does know what hes talkin about haha
 

homegrownboy

Well-Known Member
First of all, comparing a watt's worth of CFL vs a watt's worth of HPS is comparing apples and oranges. Fluorescents deliver low intensity light; HPS delivers high intensity. It is the intensity of light which drives photosynthesis.

Luminous intensity aka brightness (measured in lumens or lumens per sq metre aka 'lux') from multiple light sources does not 'add.' Putting a dim lamp next to another dim lamp makes neither lamp brighter.

Since the lumen figure is a measure of brightness, a pair of 1500 lumen CFLs covering the same area is not applying 3000 lumens, rather 1500. It could be 10,000 x 1500lm CFLs and it would still be 1500lm. None of the lamps gets brighter by virtue of being next to one another.

While it's less of an issue, HPS is also much more efficient in lumens per watt than CFL- a bit immaterial as there's no such thing as a CFL that is comparable to an HPS in luminous output.

Plants flowered with fluoros will deliver fluffy, thin buds. Plants vegged with them will grow quite slowly compared to those grown with HID light. Fluoros are great for clones and seedlings, which don't need to be pounded with light.

You're a lot smarter to jump on the forum first and ask what you should use instead of buying a bunch of stuff and later asking if it will work.

See about getting your money back for your huge batch of of CFLs.

Your planned grow box dimensions are going to give you grief. You'll need to make it a good bit taller than 1300mm, closer to 2m is more functional. Even if you grow SoG style, flowering clones right after they set root, which keeps plants rather short, they will be about 1m tall by the end of flowering with a 400HPS.

For 1.2m^2, you could use a 600HPS and could flower about 12-13 SoG pruned plants. You could also use a 400 and flower 8-10 in the same style. Either a 400 or 600HPS would kick the pants off anything you can do with CFLs- and considering you were OK with 650W, are both within your scope for power consumption.

Finally someone that knows the same things I do...everyne argues that you CAN add lumens...but sadly...they can continue growing with there 17548375843657894307580 pretend lumes.
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Finally someone that knows the same things I do...everyne argues that you CAN add lumens...but sadly...they can continue growing with there 17548375843657894307580 pretend lumes.
That's about the size of it.

To illustrate the point, I took my lux meter and measured the luminous output from within 50mm from the tube of one and then from within 50mm from the tubes of two identical CFLs.



Meter indicates 66,300 lux. Reading was wandering +/- 100 lux.



Meter indicates 66,400lux. Same amount of wandering in the reading, essentially the same reading and wandering as with one CFL. The meter is measuring the peak light intensity- not the number of photons. If I could get more CFLs within 50mm of the sensor, you'd still see exactly the same reading on the lux meter- or whatever the reading was from the brightest of the CFLs.

I still get CFL evangelists arguing the point with me... but while they're waging the losing battle, I'm pulling poundage out from under my HPS lighting.

It's this simple- if you wanna grow some dope, buy the right stuff- once... instead of going through the same learning curve everyone else has encountered many times before you.
 
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SilverRabbit

New Member
I think your missing the point.. CFL's make your plants stretch which means less bud sites. CFL's also loose lumens more quickly so thats why you have to put them so close to your plants. HID's are also used to increase yield and level of potency. CFL's are good to start growing, but HID's are a must if you want a high yielding strong potent crop.
 

bigd921

Well-Known Member
you guys kill me wit this bs... cfls dont mean fluffy buds or stretchy plants.. lumens may not add but cfls used correctly will perform great... I respect alb your perpetual harvest thread is some amazing stuff, but you saying it CANT be done with cfls is WRONG, I have not personally done it for all of you guys that think only an hid will get it done check out what 214 w of cfls can
do....

International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - Compact SOG with CFL's
:joint:
 

LemonHerb

Well-Known Member
There is a lot of good advice here and a lot of bias. You can get very bushy veg growth from CFLs, and you don't even need as much as most people tell you that you need. Now as far as thin buds I can't comment from personal expereience yet, but it seems from a whole 2 minutes of research on here that this doesn't have to be true.

However, I think maybe you might want to look at what you spent for what you got. 1550 watts of CFLs is a lot of energy to use for what you are getting, so it's probably more cost effective to go with an HPS.

Even if you got those CFLs for free it's cheaper to go with an HPS, 1550w is going to be a lot on a power bill especially when you consider you could get as good or much better results with a 400w or 600w HPS.
 

bigd921

Well-Known Member
no disrespect to you lemon, but you say you dont have any personal experience, that being said if you are going to make a claim that the 400w hps will outperform 1500w of cfls either site experience or your point of reference ie..a link to a grow etc... otherwise you are doing the same thing a 400w hid does ( put out alot of hot air)... you want bigger cfl production this is i beleive 1100w of cfls

International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - ***DrBud Takes CFL SOG to the Next Level***

my intent is not to dis hid's or those that use them, but at this point with so many succesfull cfl operations all around us, it seems dumb to continue to perpetuate the myth that you cant grow with cfls or you need a ridiculous number of them to make it work...neither statement is true and the proof is all around :joint:
 

LemonHerb

Well-Known Member
1550w is going to be a lot on a power bill especially when you consider you could get as good or much better results with a 400w or 600w HPS.
I quotes myself to help out, I never claimed anything other then you "could get as good or much better" but never that you would or wouldn't. I know there is a lot of HID bias, but there is a lot of bias and quick defensiveness from the other sides too. I like CFLs too, but I had to face reality that I need to spend more in wattage to get the same result which really takes away my reason for using CFLs.

The only reason I say I have no expereince on how well they will bloom is because my CFL grow isn't finished budding yet. Feel free to check my journal in 3 weeks though.
 

bigd921

Well-Known Member
i have no need to defend a point that is easily substantiated with the links I provided...anyone that has the ability to read a grow journal can see for themselves.... I will check your journal out tho good luck....
 

chasebert

Active Member
so many people hate on CFL's . they work great you just have to set them up right. my grow is awesome. check the pics below. andybody see spindly growth or small buds? all i see is a shit load of trichs and 3 CFL's.
 

Attachments

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
andybody see spindly growth or small buds?
Yes- that's all I see here, in fact.

I'm not 'hating' on CFLs. I have no emotional involvement with lighting! I DO however, know how to grow dense, heavy buds- and that CFLs are not involved in such, post the cloning process, anyway.
 

jimmyspaz

Well-Known Member
I'm not 'hating' on CFLs. I have no emotional involvement with lighting! I DO however, know how to grow dense, heavy buds- and that CFLs are not involved in such, post the cloning process, anyway.
Yes, that's it exactly. After they come out of the clone cabinet they do MUCH better under HID lighting. At least this has been my experiance, as well as a LOT of others. Yes , you can grow under CFL's but to get enough light onto the plants you are farther ahead using HID's, cheaper , more efficiant, and produce better buds. Nuff said!
 
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